NL MVP - 3 way race now!

frankhardy · September 27, 2006 9:20PM

I think the NL MVP race has a third runner now, and it's going down to the wire. You obviously have Ryan Howard and Albert Pujols, but I have to say - if the Astros complete this incredible run, Lance Berkman has to be considered. He hit another home run last night, and the Astros won. He has literally carried the Astros offensively. Howard gets consideration whether or not the Phillies win or not, just because of his power numbers. But, I must say. He has struck out over 170 times. Pujols has struck out over 120 times less. If Pujols does again what he did last night, I think Pujols will win the MVP. I guess I am just trying to say that the NL MVP has yet to be decided.

ziggy29 · September 27, 2006 9:38PM

<< If Pujols does again what he did last night, I think Pujols will win the MVP. >>

If Pujols does again what he did last night, more managers need to have their heads examined for pitching to him. I know there were two men on base already, but there were also two out, and I'd take my chances with just about ANYONE else with the bases loaded rather than Pujols with two men on.

frankhardy · September 27, 2006 9:48PM

Bochy said the same thing, except he had a dominating pitcher on the mound - Cla Meredith. If you are saying, "Cla who?" Let me tell you. This rookie pitcher has been unhittable. His ERA even after the Pujols home run is 0.91. He has been making hitters look silly.

This is an exerpt from the article on MLB.com -

Somebody mentioned that Pujols had not been able to square up every ball against Cla Meredith, the Padres' rookie relief-pitching sensation. Meredith, who had given up just four runs in 43 appearances, had struck out Pujols in the seventh inning of Monday night's game.

"Yeah," Bochy said, "but [Pujols] had never seen him before."

Pujols saw Meredith again on Wednesday night. The second time was the charm, the winning three-run homer on a 1-0 pitch. Meredith had struck out Pujols on a sinker. This time, the sinker didn't sink enough.

Bochy said that he would have walked Pujols intentionally and loaded the bases for the next hitter, Scott Spiezio, "if I didn't have Meredith. That's the confidence I have in the kid."

Meredith said he appreciated the trust, "but I'd feel better if the guy didn't hit it 650 feet off me."

stown · September 27, 2006 10:58PM

The Big Puma is starting to get the respect he truly deserves

Axtell · September 28, 2006 2:34AM

Pujols and Howard are by all means the front runners...Delgado would be my #3 choice...Berkman would be far back in the pack.

bags05 · September 28, 2006 2:54AM

Delgado over Berkman?!?!? Are you insane??? Delgado is hitting a paltry .263 and isn't even leading his TEAM in any statistical category. Take Berkman out of that lineup this year and tell me what you have left? Axtell, I know you love to be obtuse so maybe that was the case this time but look at some stats and tell me you don't agree.

Axtell · September 28, 2006 3:26AM

Take delgado off the mets and tell me how well beltran hits, or hell, anyone else.

bags05 · September 28, 2006 3:41AM

LOL! Nice try. At least admit that an MVP candidate should lead their team in some offensive category besides strikeouts. At least we agree that neither one of these two is winning the MVP but your assertion that Berkman is well behind Delgado just means you simply haven't been paying attention.

onlyanumber · September 28, 2006 3:41AM

<< Take delgado off the mets and tell me how well beltran hits, or hell, anyone else. >>

Mets were 11-5 this season without Delgado in the lineup. Furthermore in those 16 games, Beltran played in 14 of them. Went 15/48 (.313 average) with 14 runs scored and 11 RBIs. From those numbers, looks like he played better without Delgado in the lineup.

edit to add: Mets record without Beltran in the lineup? 11-11 Delgado appeared in 20 of those games, batting .219 (14/64) with 11 runs scored and 14 RBIs.

stown · September 28, 2006 4:01AM

<< LOL! Nice try. At least admit that an MVP candidate should lead their team in some offensive category besides strikeouts. At least we agree that neither one of these two is winning the MVP but your assertion that Berkman is well behind Delgado just means you simply haven't been paying attention. >>

He never admits to being wrong; will just spin and spin and spin...

Boopotts · September 28, 2006 4:11AM

<< The Big Puma is starting to get the respect he truly deserves

>>

Berkman should definitely finish third in the voting, and if he doesn't that's a total hose job.

riccaboni · September 29, 2006 7:53AM

If the Cards collapse or the Phils pull a miracle, Howard gets it. If Berkman has a big hit in the clincher OR does something big in the first round of the playoffs, he wins. Atleast that's my take.

-Ian

WinPitcher · September 29, 2006 8:28AM

Voting is completed before the playoffs begin.

Steve

ctsoxfan · September 29, 2006 8:37AM

Ryan Howard has had an amazing season, and the Phils came back from the dead because of it. It's a close race, but I'd still pick him.

grote15 · September 29, 2006 9:17AM

It's anyone's guess right now, especially if the Cards collapse.

riccaboni · September 29, 2006 12:00PM

I think the 'Stros are done, and with the voting done before the playoffs start, I give it to Howard. Even though the Cards could be in the playoffs without the Phils, the near collapse probably doesn't bode well for voters.

-Ian

grote15 · September 29, 2006 12:04PM

Definitely a two-horse race between Howard & Puljos. Both are deserving. Puljos may get a few "make-up" votes because most people feel he was robbed by Bonds on steroids.

frankhardy · September 29, 2006 1:43PM

He hit his 48th tonight. What if he gets to 50 with the Cardinals making it and the Phils not making it? With all of Howard's stikeouts, and with all of Pujols' game winners, I think Pujols will probably win it.

grote15 · September 29, 2006 2:06PM

He hit his 48th tonight. What if he gets to 50 with the Cardinals making it and the Phils not making it? With all of Howard's stikeouts, and with all of Pujols' game winners, I think Pujols will probably win it.

I agree.

frankhardy · September 29, 2006 10:55PM

I just read the following on the Cardinals message boards. Very interesting case for Pujols.

It reads ------

After seeing Jeff Brantley on Baseball Tonight pick Ryan Howard as his NL MVP -- I had to take a closer look at the situation. After doing so, here is why I feel Albert Pujols is by far, the NL MVP:

Sure, Ryan Howard has the glossy numbers: 58 homeruns, nearly 150 RBI. Those are big, no doubt. But do those numbers alone get Howard the MVP? If you chose Howard as your MVP then you must say yes -- Homeruns and RBI are all the matter. Because Albert has him beat in nearly every other catagory.

Albert Pujols has set career highs for homeruns and RBI in a season. Take a moment to let that sink in... We're talking CAREER HIGHS of ALBERT PUJOLS -- a player who is widely regarded as THE best hitter in the game... who has been dropping jaws for 6 years now.

Granted, these career highs for Albert do not match those same numbers put up by Howard, but despite the difference in HR totals, Albert STILL has a higher slugging percentage than Howard. In addition, Albert has a higher batting average and higher OBP. Taken together, Albert has a higher OPS than Howard, and has scored more runs (117 to Howard's 103).

If these reasons are not enough, take a look at the so-called "clutch factor." Albert leads the league in game-winning Homeruns -- tying the record for such shots -- 19 (shared with no other than a man named Mays) and leads the league in game-winning RBI's. Albert has 25. And how many does Mr. Howard have? 15. That's big.

This is highlighted even more when looking at situations with runners in scoring position. Ryan Howard is hitting a mere .247 with RISP, but despite this low average has still managed to be quite productive with an OBP of .421 and a SLG% of .512. Heck, I'd still take him.... just not over Albert Pujols.

Now take a look at Albert's numbers in the same situation. Batting average? An absolutely RIDICULOUS .403!! How about his on-base percentage? .542!!! And then, perhaps most important: an unbelievable .815 slugging %!!!!

We're talking Roy Hobbs here. We're talking Jesus jacking curveballs -- or Jobu ripping fastballs. The stuff mighty Casey did when he wasn't striking out. Legend.

And if all of this isn't enough -- Just look at what these guys mean to their team. Jeff Brantley tried to say that Howard deserved it because the Phillies wouldn't even be in the picture if it weren't for Howard... but take a look at the Cardinals!!

Albert Pujols is the ONLY player on the Cardinals with over 25 homeruns. Howard is joined in that feat by THREE teammates: Chase Utley (32), Pat Burrell (29), and Jimmy Rollins (25). The next closest to Pujols for St. Louis is Scott Rolen with 22.

While Albert is the only player on the Cardinals' roster who has scored over 100 runs, Howard trails not only Albert in this number, but TWO other players on his own team. Both Utley (130) and Rollins (127) have crossed the plate more times than Howard.

It should come as no surprise then, that Howard has also had considerably more help in driving in runs than Pujols. Pujols is currently the only player on his team with over 100 RBI's. Scott Rolen COULD get there, but will have to knock in a few more to reach that plateau for the '06 season. He currently sits at 95. After that, no other Cardinals even has 80 runs batted in.

The Phillies, however, have FOUR different players with over 80 RBI. After Howard, Utley has knocked in 102, while Burrell has added another 95. Rollins has plated 83.

And this doesn't even consider that the Phillies got 65 RBI and 61 Runs scored by Bobby Abreau before they traded him to the Yankees.

So which team would be at a greater loss without their MVP candidate? I think the answer is obvious. And this doesn't even take into account that the Cardinals WERE without Albert for 3 weeks... and were without some other major components of their NL Central defending champion team for considerable amounts of time: like their starting CF, starting SS, their closer, and their #2 starting pitcher.

And, oh yeah, it's very likely that Albert is going to win the gold glove award for his defense this year.

So now, you tell me -- who deserves the NL MVP award?

Axtell · September 29, 2006 11:54PM

The phillies would be absolutely no where without Howard - the same cannot be said for the Cardinals.

ctsoxfan · September 30, 2006 12:06AM

<< The phillies would be absolutely no where without Howard - the same cannot be said for the Cardinals. >>

Exactly - it's not a knock against Pujols, but Howard's tremendous season seemed to carry the Phillies these last few months. On a related note, I think the Cardinals should skip the playoffs anyway - they are headed for a first round embarassment.

frankhardy · September 30, 2006 1:19AM

I think y'all need to read my last post. The Cardinals would be no where near the playoffs with out Pujols. Whereas Rollins and Utley are having career years around Howard. Edmonds has had his worse year since he has been in St Louis. Rolen has not been 100%. The pitching has been horrible.

CTSOXFAN, you just said in the "Cardinals" thread that they are terrible. Stick to what you said.

I watch them every night, and, believe me, this is the worst Cardinals team I have seen since the 90's. Pujols has picked them up on his back and hauled them by himself into the playoffs (hopefully).

grote15 · September 30, 2006 2:54AM

Puljos will win it if the Cards hang on. If not, it may go to Howard, but I still think Puljos deserves it.

Ax, aren't you the same guy that said David Ortiz was GUARANTEED to win the MVP back in early August? Wonder how that voting will turn out?

Axtell · September 30, 2006 3:01AM

<< Puljos will win it if the Cards hang on. If not, it may go to Howard, but I still think Puljos deserves it. >>

Perhaps to you...but Howard's carried that team to a playoff run to the last week of the year...the same team that was left for dead and that no one was picked to win anything. The Cards, on the other hand, were the consensus pick to run away with the division.

<< Ax, aren't you the same guy that said David Ortiz was GUARANTEED to win the MVP back in early August? Wonder how that voting will turn out? >>

No one could have predicted that Ortiz would have been out of action or that the sox would have freefallen like they have.

ToppsCo1lector · September 30, 2006 3:45AM

Ax, the Sox simply couldn't pull away from the Yankees no matter how hot they got. They couldn't do it. If Ortiz stayed healthy, the Sox still wouldn't get into the playoffs this year. That's how bad their pitching is.

Rollins and Utley having career years. Does that not somehow go into the equation? Yes, Scott Rolen had a great year but when Pujols was out the Cards were a shell of themselves. Without Pujols the Cards wouldn't even be in the NL wildcard hunt.

ctsoxfan · September 30, 2006 4:17AM

<< CTSOXFAN, you just said in the "Cardinals" thread that they are terrible. Stick to what you said. >>

I am. I believe I said in both threads that I think the Cards are a weak team headed for an early playoff exit. I hate to say that about your team (but I see you agree anyway) - I just hate to see teams fall backwards into the playoffs, and then have no ability to compete once they are there. The NL is going to need a strong representative in the WS, to deal with the Twins, Tigers, A's, or the dreaded Yankees.

NL MVP - 3 way race now!

Comments