What would you do?

Coinhog

I recently sold a PCGS 1/4 ounce proof platinum Proof DCAM69 on ebay to a buyer with zero feedback. The buyer used Paypal for an instant payment by declined to purchase the optional insurance. I mailed it Priority Mail with delivery confirmation AND signature required. The buyer just notified me that when he recieved the coin, the slab was cracked in half and he stated that it looked like the Priority Mail box had been stepped on. He informed me that he would return the coin and broken slab to me so that I could file an insurance claim.?????

At this point my simple response to him was: "Did you purchase the optional insurance?"

At most, I think I should offer to send in the broken slab and coin to PCGS for him to get it reholdered. Of course there is no guarantee that it will come back proof 69 DCAM.


I have a feeling this might result in my first negative, although i think I am covered under the seller protection policy because I did require signature confirmation.

What would you do in this situation?

Farrington

I think you are under no obligation to do anything for the buyer because he refused to purchase insurance.

You should simply inform him that since he failed to do so, you are under no obligation to fix any damaged caused by USPS.

However, if you are worried about negative feedback, you might offer to refund him the cost to get it reholdered, however, I do not think that you should do it for him.

RKKay

I'd make it a learning experience, try to make it right by offering to try to get it reholdered, and make insurance mandatory in the future.

Russ

This is why insurance is not optional in my listings.

Russ, NCNE

JapanJohn

That's a tough one. From his point of view, he bought and paid for something that is broken.

From your point of view you offered insurance and he declined. Was the coin damaged? Or just the slab?

I'd offer to pay for HALF of the reslabbing fees OR have him send it back for a refund.

Keep talking to the guy. If it was me I'd keep the coin and strike my head against the wall for being an idiot and not buying insurance.

John

BlindedByEgo

He declined the insurance - if you feel that you did an adequate job of packaging, any costs moving forward should be borne by him. He was penny wise and pound foolish.

19Lyds

I too require the insurance, especially on big ticket items...............

ABC123

The loss, if any, is borne by the Seller !

Bochiman

<< <i>The loss, if any, is borne by the Seller ! >>



I would agree with this and that is why, if I am unwilling to cover the cost myself in case something happens, insurance is mandatory on any of my auctions.
I have also decided at the last minute to include it, paid by me, if I thought it needed it but wasn't part of the deal.

Coinhog

<< <i>The loss, if any, is borne by the Seller ! >>




Why is that? The buyer declined to purchase insurance. I am not sure that it was damaged in transit or even at his home if one of his young children got a hold of it. Perhaps an irate wife smashed it when she found out what he spent on a coin that only has a face value of $25.

richardshipp

This is a tough situation.

Did you state any kind of "return policy" in the auction?

mcheath

i agree that making insurance mandatory would cut out problems like this in the future, but on the other hand the buyer did decline insurance and you are not responsible for damage done by the usps. offering to get it reholdered is a great step but explain that you cannot guarentee the grade will be the same as it will be the same "stepped on" coin. i think that is more than fair to the buyer and your going out of the way to do it. besides i dont know much about the platinum coins but i assume it is tied to bullion with little or no premium for a 69dcam.

coinguy1

<< <i>... I am not sure that it was damaged in transit or even at his home if one of his young children got a hold of it. Perhaps an irate wife smashed it when she found out what he spent on a coin that only has a face value of $25. >>

Those and other unknowns are among the reasons why it is best to make insurance mandatory.

My suggestion would be to offer to reimburse the buyer for re-holdering (and possibly postage) fees after he has left positive feedback (since you technically did nothing wrong), with an assurance that you will do the same.

TwoSides2aCoin

I would negotiate back and forth with this guy until he accepts some responsibility in this situation. If this were to mean he either accepted a partial re-imbursement, or accept the item as is, there is some lack of attention to detail on seller's part by making it OPTIONAL insurance. Now if I were to take it back, I would put on my best diplomat's hat and work out the least painful deal to ensure a positive transaction took place so that neither of us has to eat the loss, and each of us share in the responsibility of it.

He must understand, you are not at fault, however... there's a major lesson in your post. Thanks for sharing it. The seller is at a disadvantage in a situation like this.



Joe

Coinhog

<< <i>

<< <i>... I am not sure that it was damaged in transit or even at his home if one of his young children got a hold of it. Perhaps an irate wife smashed it when she found out what he spent on a coin that only has a face value of $25. >>

Those and other unknowns are among the reasons why it is best to make insurance mandatory.

My suggestion would be to offer to reimburse the buyer for re-holdering (and possibly postage) fees after he has left positive feedback (since you technically did nothing wrong), with an assurance that you will do the same. >>



Thank you Mark, that makes the most sense to me. Although I am not sure that you are able extort feedback like that. If I offer to work with him on the reholdering and he leaves me negative feedback, so be it. My response should clear up any questions for future buyers. I may even be able to get it mutually withdrawn since there was no breach of contract with this buyer.

My concern is a paypal chargeback. I am not sure on which side of the fence paypal will fall on this one.

jimjenson

Insurance is for the sellers protection, not the buyers. Heres the deal, if the buyer files a SNAD, they will be required by paypal to ship the item back with insurance and tracking. Upon proof of return, paypal will refund the buyer his money. Unfortunatly, paypal will side with a zero feedback buyer over a 5000 feedback seller.

Unfortunatly, if the coins were swapped, theres a good chance you could be out the coin, and the money.

jimjenson

Oh, forgot to mention, Paypal takes the view that the buyer doesn't own the merchandise until it is delivered, not when it is shipped. Items lost in transit are the sellers problem, regardless of what is typed in the listing.

Coinhog

<< <i>Insurance is for the sellers protection, not the buyers. Heres the deal, if the buyer files a SNAD, they will be required by paypal to ship the item back with insurance and tracking. Upon proof of return, paypal will refund the buyer his money. Unfortunatly, paypal will side with a zero feedback buyer over a 5000 feedback seller.

Unfortunatly, if the coins were swapped, theres a good chance you could be out the coin, and the money. >>



Whats a SNAD?

jimjenson

signifigantly not as described. the item was not sold as having a cracked holder.

NumisOxide

<< <i>I'd make it a learning experience, try to make it right by offering to try to get it reholdered, and make insurance mandatory in the future. >>



I agree. That's why I include insurance in the shipping and handling fee in my auctions or whenever I sell something.

coinguy1

<<Thank you Mark, that makes the most sense to me. Although I am not sure that you are able extort feedback like that. If I offer to work with him on the reholdering and he leaves me negative feedback, so be it>>

I considered the feedback extortion issue, but feel you'd be offering something (re-holdering and possibly postage reimbursement) which you are not obligated to offer. You'd in essence be offering a favor for a favor.

You sound as if you are fair and reasonable. If he is too, it should work out fine. If not, invite him to join the forum and we'll deal with him properly.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

TwoSides2aCoin

<< <i><<You sound as if you are fair and reasonable. If he is too, it should work out fine. If not, invite him to join the forum and we'll deal with him properly. >>






ain't that the truth ?

jimjenson

Sorry guys, call me cynical but I smell a scam in the works.

1) zero feedback buyer
2) high dollar item
3) received but not as described
4) paypal

I hope for the original poster that this is not the case.

Coinhog

<< <i>Sorry guys, call me cynical but I smell a scam in the works.

1) zero feedback buyer
2) high dollar item
3) received but not as described
4) paypal

I hope for the original poster that this is not the case. >>



that was my initial assessment.

I have offered to reimburse the buyer for having the coin reholdered. I also asked him about the extent of the damage to the cracked slab. I am trying to determine if the coin was damaged at all. I am getting ready to submit a bunch of AGE sets, so I could send the coin along with them for reholdering at a minimal expense. I am just waiting now for the buyer to get back to me.

I appreciate all of your responses, both for and against the buyer. It has really allows all of us to see the different points of view, pretty much all of which are valid.

jimjenson

Please keep us posted as to how this turns out. If it is a scam, theres a few things you can do if the buyer is in the US.

Coinhog

The buyer agreed to letting me send him money for reholdering. I then asked him for a picture of the broken slab and coin and also stated that I would be glad to send it in for him on my next PCGS submission.

Since I asked him for a picture, I haven't heard a word from him. Right now I am not sure if he thought I would just originally refund him the $380 cost. When that didn't work he was accepting of a $30 grading fee. When I asked him for pictures of the damage, he disappears.

I don't know, I hate to block zero feedback buyers. Everyone has to start somewhere, but on ebay you never know if it is just a new ebayer or a naru'd scammer with a new id.

I still don't know about this guy. Its a terrible thing to have to go through life distrusting people. Distrusting, is that a word?

coinguy1

<<Distrusting, is that a word?>>

Yes and hopefully the buyer will eventually send you a picture. If not, no harm done anyway, and you will know YOU acted fairly and honorably.

pbfloyd

over 200 and he payed with paypal...you must refund or paypal will do it for you

NoGvmnt

If the package did have delivery and signature confirmation, and it looked as if it had been stepped on when he rec'd it, he should have opened it in the presence of the letter carrier to check for damage and then refused the package if there was infact damage.

He didn't, his loss.

Jim

Coinhog

<< <i>If the package did have delivery and signature confirmation, and it looked as if it had been stepped on when he rec'd it, he should have opened it in the presence of the letter carrier to check for damage and then refused the package if there was infact damage.

He didn't, his loss.

Jim >>




Exactly! delivery and signature confirmation was purchased by me. If in fact the parcel arrived damaged to the pint that it looks stepped on and the contents were broken, he should have refused signing for it.

DrWho

insurance is protection of the seller and should not be optional unless the seller is willing to bear the burden of non-reciept or damage.

Millertime

<< <i>This is why insurance is not optional in my listings.

Russ, NCNE >>



Even on the $10 Kennedys I've won from you. But your shipping charges are reasonable and you ship fast so I think including insurance is a good idea.


Millertime

AlixTCat

Insurance is really to protect the seller. Seeing as the seller is the one out the money if the buyer doesn't purchase insurance and claims loss or damage. I learned this the hard way. Now I require insurance, included in the shipping price, for all shipments over $50.00.

You'll probably have to eat this one. Next time require the insurance in the shipping, handling and insurance fee.


Jonathan

SamByrd

first you are stuck if the item is damaged pay pal will do a chargeback , second i would insist on the return of the coin or very good images before giving him anything, your best soulution might be to have him return the coin and you reholder it and re sell it or send it back to him. How do you know he wont take your 30 bucks and still do a chargeback?

jimjenson

be very careful asking for the item returned.

If by chance it is a scam and the buyer returns a broken holder, with say a penny in it, paypal will give back the money. In a dispute, paypal will side with a zero FB buyer over a 10000 fb seller.