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Wow, the Falcons are horrible...
ziggy29
Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
Maybe it's just the emotion the Saints have on their side.
No, I think it's that the Falcons -- particularly their offense -- are just bad. Vick looks lost.
No, I think it's that the Falcons -- particularly their offense -- are just bad. Vick looks lost.
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Have to give it up to the saints - they didn't let the emotion overwhelm them, and that crowd was definitely helping.
<< <i>I've stated this numerous times - Michael Vick will never become a great NFL quarterback. Great quarterbacks make good decisions and Michael Vick makes too many bad decisions and I don't see it changing. >>
I don't know. The seductive thing about Vick is that he's completely unlike anyone else who's ever played the position. We're used to thinking of quality QB's at the NFL level as guys who consistently make good decisions with throwing the football, but it seems possible that Vick could be a guy who could overcome some serious liabilities in his passing game with his amazing set of wheels. I keep thinking that if he could just become an ADEQUATE passer-- a la Pat Hayden, or someone like that-- he could completely dominate the league. But unless he at least get to that basic level of adroitness we may never know.
It also wouldn't hurt of the Falcons would put a legit number 1 on the outside for him-- someone who can just burn hell downfield on a fly route and let Vick toss it up 60 yards. No doubt he's got a cannon for an arm, and while Vick and a decent receiver may not turn into the next Blake/Pickens it would really open up the run game if the safeties on the defense had to worry about a legit deep threat whenever it was 2nd and 7.
<< <i>Vick is making some good throws, his receivers are just awful tonight.
Have to give it up to the saints - they didn't let the emotion overwhelm them, and that crowd was definitely helping. >>
Agreed. A great game for the 'aints, and a great game for the fans. I think it would terrific if they put together a quality year.
And thank GOD the Lions didn't make a serious bid for the services of Sean Payton. It would be a shame if that kind of coaching talent (admittedly it's early in his career, but so far so good) went to waste up here in the Great White North.
Steve Young was able to learn how to be a pocket passer, vick needs to do the same. Some of his deep throws tonight were just terrible....and he seems completely unable to commit himself to learning how to be a better passer.
If I ran the falcons, I'd move vick to rb/wr, and put a west coast passer in there. Give vick 20-30 touches a game, let him use that athletic ability, and let a guy who wants to be a passer get him the ball.
<< <i>Vick is not going to be speedy forever, and, when that speed is gone, he's going to have to depend on his arm.
Steve Young was able to learn how to be a pocket passer, vick needs to do the same. Some of his deep throws tonight were just terrible....and he seems completely unable to commit himself to learning how to be a better passer.
If I ran the falcons, I'd move vick to rb/wr, and put a west coast passer in there. Give vick 20-30 touches a game, let him use that athletic ability, and let a guy who wants to be a passer get him the ball. >>
Was he this bad at Va Tech? It 'seems' like he was actually competent in the passing game in college, although I could be remembering it wrong.
I think a perfect fit for him would be-- don't laugh-- in Oakland. Just turn him into a Darryl Lamonica with 4.2 speed and let him wing it downfield to #18 when he's not turning the corner for an 8 yard gain.
<< <i>
<< <i>I've stated this numerous times - Michael Vick will never become a great NFL quarterback. Great quarterbacks make good decisions and Michael Vick makes too many bad decisions and I don't see it changing. >>
I don't know. The seductive thing about Vick is that he's completely unlike anyone else who's ever played the position. We're used to thinking of quality QB's at the NFL level as guys who consistently make good decisions with throwing the football, but it seems possible that Vick could be a guy who could overcome some serious liabilities in his passing game with his amazing set of wheels. I keep thinking that if he could just become an ADEQUATE passer-- a la Pat Hayden, or someone like that-- he could completely dominate the league. But unless he at least get to that basic level of adroitness we may never know.
It also wouldn't hurt of the Falcons would put a legit number 1 on the outside for him-- someone who can just burn hell downfield on a fly route and let Vick toss it up 60 yards. No doubt he's got a cannon for an arm, and while Vick and a decent receiver may not turn into the next Blake/Pickens it would really open up the run game if the safeties on the defense had to worry about a legit deep threat whenever it was 2nd and 7. >>
I understand your point Boo and it is a good point. The "basic" problem with Vick, and I don't think he'll ever get over it in the same way that Randall Cunningham never got over it, is that Vick in my opinion is always thinking run first. Of course he'll never admit that now, but I believe it to be true even though the coaches of course and even Vick himself would like him to think pass first.
Vick can still run fast and perhaps his 40 time is still the same as when he got into the league (I don't know) but in my view his "football speed" on the field during a game has definitely slowed down a bit. Defensive players "catch him" much easier than they used to.
Bottom line - As you know the NFL game and college game are two different football games and one main difference is the speed of the game. That is why you will rarely, if ever see a quarterback option play to a running back in the NFL. I don't think I've seen five quarterback option plays to a running back in the past ten years. Bottom, BOTTOM line - running quarterbacks don't win Super Bowls.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I've stated this numerous times - Michael Vick will never become a great NFL quarterback. Great quarterbacks make good decisions and Michael Vick makes too many bad decisions and I don't see it changing. >>
I don't know. The seductive thing about Vick is that he's completely unlike anyone else who's ever played the position. We're used to thinking of quality QB's at the NFL level as guys who consistently make good decisions with throwing the football, but it seems possible that Vick could be a guy who could overcome some serious liabilities in his passing game with his amazing set of wheels. I keep thinking that if he could just become an ADEQUATE passer-- a la Pat Hayden, or someone like that-- he could completely dominate the league. But unless he at least get to that basic level of adroitness we may never know.
It also wouldn't hurt of the Falcons would put a legit number 1 on the outside for him-- someone who can just burn hell downfield on a fly route and let Vick toss it up 60 yards. No doubt he's got a cannon for an arm, and while Vick and a decent receiver may not turn into the next Blake/Pickens it would really open up the run game if the safeties on the defense had to worry about a legit deep threat whenever it was 2nd and 7. >>
I understand your point Boo and it is a good point. The "basic" problem with Vick, and I don't think he'll ever get over it in the same way that Randall Cunningham never got over it, is that Vick in my opinion is always thinking run first. Of course he'll never admit that now, but I believe it to be true even though the coaches of course and even Vick himself would like him to think pass first.
Vick can still run fast and perhaps his 40 time is still the same as when he got into the league (I don't know) but in my view his "football speed" on the field during a game has definitely slowed down a bit. Defensive players "catch him" much easier than they used to.
Bottom line - As you know the NFL game and college game are two different football games and one main difference is the speed of the game. That is why you will rarely, if ever see a quarterback option play to a running back in the NFL. I don't think I've seen five quarterback option plays to a running back in the past ten years. Bottom, BOTTOM line - running quarterbacks don't win Super Bowls. >>
Yeah, it does seem like his wheels have slowed a bit. How in the hell can a guy making that kind of money, and who has access to every coach in the free world, not learn how to toss a damn football? Just baffling.
<< <i>
Yeah, it does seem like his wheels have slowed a bit. How in the hell can a guy making that kind of money, and who has access to every coach in the free world, not learn how to toss a damn football? Just baffling. >>
I can't help but think it's pride that's getting in the way.
He wants to be a running QB, and to hell with the passing game. He was a mobile QB through HS and college, that's what got him attention and fame, and he wants to 'keep it real' and play the same game in the pros, to show everyone that's doubted he could do it.
A good containing defense makes him a miserable QB. Watch the way tampa's defense stifled him over the past few years to see what happens when his mobility is taken away - he has abysmal games.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I've stated this numerous times - Michael Vick will never become a great NFL quarterback. Great quarterbacks make good decisions and Michael Vick makes too many bad decisions and I don't see it changing. >>
I don't know. The seductive thing about Vick is that he's completely unlike anyone else who's ever played the position. We're used to thinking of quality QB's at the NFL level as guys who consistently make good decisions with throwing the football, but it seems possible that Vick could be a guy who could overcome some serious liabilities in his passing game with his amazing set of wheels. I keep thinking that if he could just become an ADEQUATE passer-- a la Pat Hayden, or someone like that-- he could completely dominate the league. But unless he at least get to that basic level of adroitness we may never know.
It also wouldn't hurt of the Falcons would put a legit number 1 on the outside for him-- someone who can just burn hell downfield on a fly route and let Vick toss it up 60 yards. No doubt he's got a cannon for an arm, and while Vick and a decent receiver may not turn into the next Blake/Pickens it would really open up the run game if the safeties on the defense had to worry about a legit deep threat whenever it was 2nd and 7. >>
I understand your point Boo and it is a good point. The "basic" problem with Vick, and I don't think he'll ever get over it in the same way that Randall Cunningham never got over it, is that Vick in my opinion is always thinking run first. Of course he'll never admit that now, but I believe it to be true even though the coaches of course and even Vick himself would like him to think pass first.
Vick can still run fast and perhaps his 40 time is still the same as when he got into the league (I don't know) but in my view his "football speed" on the field during a game has definitely slowed down a bit. Defensive players "catch him" much easier than they used to.
Bottom line - As you know the NFL game and college game are two different football games and one main difference is the speed of the game. That is why you will rarely, if ever see a quarterback option play to a running back in the NFL. I don't think I've seen five quarterback option plays to a running back in the past ten years. Bottom, BOTTOM line - running quarterbacks don't win Super Bowls. >>
Yeah, it does seem like his wheels have slowed a bit. How in the hell can a guy making that kind of money, and who has access to every coach in the free world, not learn how to toss a damn football? Just baffling. >>
Great point. That "touch" is so important and VITAL to being a successful "great" quarterback in the NFL. Certainly he must practise it, but when the game is in progress many times players revert back to their general tendencies. Being a "passer" and a "thrower" are two different things for a QB, and Vick just has always struck me as simply a thrower. He usually gets the ball in the vincinity of where it should be, but not in the proper manner of the right trajectory or speed.
My concern if I was an Atlanta fan is how long he will last taking all those hits.
It would be nice to see them keep it up and make the playoffs.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I think his mentality is that of a pick-up basketball player, I just need to drive to the hoop and slam it. Although if Crumpler catches that TD pass maybe the game takes on a different path.
I don't think his issue is pocket passing, I think the real issue is he has no plan - he is purely an instinctive player.
New Orleans had a huge advantage last night. The line screamed "bet New Orleans".
Atlanta and New Orleans are decent teams that will not win the division. Carolina still will ...
Vick is highly overrated. It isn't the lack of receivers (they are decent, not great) it's Vick. He has tremedous arm strength but doesn't throw well.
<< <i>The "Wow the Falcons are horrible" title here is funny, when Vick was 2-0 people are talking up the Falcons even Vegas makes them lay 6 points away from home, one poor showing and the Falcons SU CK !! Ziggy no disrespect to you here, Im just pointing out in general the daily reminder of how brutal the swing of emotions are in pro sports. >>
I understand the point and of course a guy like Vick certainly has some good qualities as well. But quite frankly, in my opinion Vick is one of the most overrated players I have ever witnessed in any sport. As his speed declines, he could very well be a type of quarterback who winds up playing for multiple teams throughout his career and never leading any of them to a championship.
<< <i>The "Wow the Falcons are horrible" title here is funny, when Vick was 2-0 people are talking up the Falcons even Vegas makes them lay 6 points away from home, one poor showing and the Falcons SU CK !! Ziggy no disrespect to you here, Im just pointing out in general the daily reminder of how brutal the swing of emotions are in pro sports. >>
Well, I meant they are horrible *today*.
Against another team and another gameplan they might look better. But for one night, against the Saints, yes, the Falcons were undisputably putrid. Of course, maybe the Saints were just *that good*, riding all that emotion and such...