Update On 2006 Proof Platinum Coins

wondercoin

I believe these are the mintage figures for 2006 Proof Platinum through 9/19/06:

6688 (1oz)
5502 (1/2)
5251 (1/4)
7069 (1/10)

These mintage figures suggest to me that in all probability 2006 Proof Plats may have final mintage figures by this time next year in line with the 2001-2003 Proof Plat mintage range (unless buying practically comes to a standstill from here). Year 2003 Proof plat is the best set of these (3) dates and trades in PCGS-PR69DCAM at roughly $3,095-$3,295/set. The Mint sells 2006 Proof Platinum at $2,750 raw (figure cost at about $2,800 slabbed for PCGS-PR69DCAM sets). So, it is appearing more likely to me that 2006 Proof Platinum will NOT become a real "winner" as 2004 and 2005 Proof Platinum was. Collectors appear to be finally adding Proof Plat sets to their collections/mint orders via the US Mint website, just as they had prior to the drop off in mintages in 2004.

For those who are not familar with the situation with Proof Platinum "Statue of Liberty" coins from 2004 and 2005- these (2) year sets of Proof Platinum contain some of the rarest type coins ever produced by the US Mint since the 1915 Pan Pac coins. Indeed, 8 out of the 13 lowest mintage Type coins issued by the US Mint since 1915 are all (4) denominations of 2004-2005 Platinum and 4/5 lowest mintage Type coins since 1915 are 2004-2005 Proof Platinum as well. The only coin that fills out the top (5) lowest mintage Type coins since 1915 is the Mint State Jackie Robinson $5 Gold Commem in the #2 slot - a modern coin approaching nearly a 20 fold rise in price over the past (10) years.

Wondercoin

RegistryCoin

<< <i>So, it is appearing more likely to me that 2006 Proof Platinum will NOT become a real "winner" as 2004 and 2005 Proof Platinum was. >>


2006 plats must not be too far behind "real winner" status, when it is considered that the American Eagle 20th Anniversary Set (A12) sold out in a matter of hours with limited sales of 10,000. Is there an "apples to apples" comparison here considering the relative prices, or is it just a matter of metals?

wondercoin

RC: Many of the 2001-2003 Proof Plat coins are also not too far behind (mintage-wise) "real winner status". A number of those coins fall within the top 25 lowest minted Type coins as well. My comment merely expressed my personal view that the 2006 Proof coins do not appear to be the same "home run" coins as 2004-2005 coins were. I agree with you though that they indeed have the potential to be sought after coins down the road though.

Wondercoin

RegistryCoin

That what I was thinking, and must be what a number of collectors think as well. I think that, at least within this market, anything with sales of 10,000 or less must have a pretty good chance to become a pretty darn good coin.

wondercoin

FYI - 47.2% of every different Proof Platinum coin ever produced by the US Mint since 1997 (through 2005) has a mintage under 10,000 pieces.

RC - We can take this private conversation to the land lines from here

Wondercoin

SlangNRox

I didn't even realize until very recently that the 2005 proof platinum was a real winner.

RegistryCoin: I believe it might be a matter of metals. Gold and Silver eagles have had over a 10 year head start on the platinum coins. That gave collectors 10 more years to backfill and collect the coins every year. I think this can contribute to a larger collector base. That and the high price of platinum and it not being as well known as gold and silver in terms of precious metals. Just wait as more collectos start collecting the platinum coins and need to add the earlier dates to their sets. I think there is the potential for most of the years to become winners.

hmm. i just realized that you two have american flags as your icons and I have a Canadian maple leaf. maybe i should change mine.

TraderGio

Thanks

RegistryCoin

<< <i>hmm. i just realized that you two have american flags as your icons and I have a Canadian maple leaf. maybe i should change mine. >>


SlangNRox. This originated with the 9/11 charity drive that we had on the boards in 2001 when, out of respect, almost every board member changed their icons to US flags for a time (It was very moving). I can't speak for Wondercoin (I think that he may have had a flag all along), but I just haven't felt the need to change it back. I can't even remember what it used to be. I think that it probably was a BTW, but I'm not sure. If I were to change it now, I think I would probably choose the 1999 $100 proof plat. reverse with the alligator, or is it a crocodile (Eagle Above Southeastern Wetlands), as I think it is one of the coolest designs we have. The maple leaf, I think, is very cool too. Thanks for your insight into the plats. I think that you are probably right about the aspect of time.

EricSan

I hadn't thought about the 10-year lead that collectors have with the gold and silver eagles over the plats, I had assumed it was just the initial price that kept the collector base relatively small. I hope it takes a little while longer before people figure it all out as I have a number of the earlier platinum dates still to acquire. I've been working my way through, starting with the lowest mintages working up to the more "common" dates...

Eric

Mark

A little OT to this thread, but after 9-11 both Wondercoin and RC were instrumental in an impressive charity drive. I, too, have never changed my icon since that time.

Mark

wondercoin

Mark: Thanks for remembering.

One thing we did from the outset was make sure every check/money order written to the charity was MADE OUT DIRECTLY to the charity. IMHO, fundraisers should consider that simple rule to avoid all sorts of questions later concerning accounting issues. For those who may not remember, we selected the NY Firefighters Widows and Orphans Fund as the recipient of all of the funds and raised around $60,000.00 for them as I recall.

Wondercoin

HighRelief

The Platinum Coins are not big sellers for some reason

RegistryCoin

Yes, and this seems to be both the good and the not-so-good thing for those interested in plats.

BaileyBoysplusMom

Yes,

and I did notice the Teletrade site indicates the 1997 MS70 $100 Plat coin (pop 1) sold recently for about $12,000 plus.

SlangNRox

<< <i>Yes,

and I did notice the Teletrade site indicates the 1997 MS70 $100 Plat coin (pop 1) sold recently for about $12,000 plus. >>



Did you buy it? I remember that you had a bounty for it if anyone ever made it.

RegistryCoin

Interesting #s for a pop1. But like I have said before, in this series, pf and ms, it seems to me that as the pops go up, so do the prices. I think that the slow but steady addition of people collecting, and the slow-ish additions to the top pops tend to keep the prices rising. This has especially interested me in that, during this period, the base metal price has stayed relatively the same, even dipped a bit. I think this tends to portend steadily rising prices (assuming the addition of new collectors coming on board continues at this pace, and assuming grading standards remain similar/constant).
ps. This also points out to me that those who collect these (platinum commemorative) coins do so in just the same way as they collect any other rare coins, and has little to do with bullion or bullion values.

BaileyBoysplusMom

SlangNRox,

I retired my sets some time ago.

I feel, the key is what RegistryCoin says "assuming grading standards remain similar/constant".

In my work (I have extensive data over time, last four years) the grade rates for the 70's generally have come way down from 1 in 200+/- to 1 in 50+/- from the past few years in the proofs, the MS tend to hold their own in the early material (pre 2004 before the coin change to matte). I might note many folks are happy with a 2 percent grade rate.

But has the grading standard stayed the same and folks are looking harder, as the series has become more popular? or has the standard slipped. A lot of hype in this coin business.

Frankly, I have no opinion on the matter, but I feel you have to buy the very best 70 you can find, and that takes working with a dealer that knows the series and has seen a lot of the 70's. There are only a few and for anyone wanting to follow this tactic my referral would be Wondercoin.

A few collectors are buying the early made 70's in the series, but finding that material, I would imagine is getting pretty scarce by now.

Over and out.

wondercoin

BB+M - Grade through rates "going up" over the past 4-5 years is actually quite a complicated subject IMHO. Many factors need to be considered:

1. US Mint making the coins much nicer - the depth of cameo on the 2003-2006 coins in particular is amazing and lends itself to the PR70 grade, especially compared with coins struck between 1997-2001. However, as the grading services begin to understand the look of 1997-2001 coins, they can understand that the coins often look nothing like 2003-2006 pieces and are worthy of PR70DC status.

2. The 1998-2002 time period where PCGS was graded vritually -0- 70’s in any series and the numbers that produced.

3. “Crackouts” these days that would not have been even considered in the early days of Plat collecting.

4. Interpretation of Mint created flaws with the planchets vs. post-production flaws.

And, so on.

But, no question, IMHO, that a PR70DC coin can vary greatly in quality to another “identical” PR70DC piece. This is simply because there are no degrees of DCAM listed on holders - just think if there was a “monster DCAM” or “heavy DCAM” designation and what that might do to prices of PR70DC coins vs. “monster DCAM” coins. I am not suggesting there should be such a designation - my point is there are surely degrees of nicer coins. Then, of course, there is the issue of “marks” on the 70’s - no marks under 5x vs. no marks under 10x and pure Platinum planchet related marks vs. post-striking problems.

17/25 of the lowest mintage type coins the US Mint has produced since 1915 are Proof Plats - coins with much lower mintages than the lowest mintage Classic Silver Commem type coin (#24 ranked) or even the "rare" new Rev Proof Gold coin with its 10,000 mintage (#25 on the list). Watch out if and when these Proof Plats get "promoted" by the "big boys" IMHO.

Wondercoin

scher

Good info..Mitch really lives this stuff..
Bruce Scher

oreville

It took me only three months to figure out what Plat collecting was!!

I felt very stupid!

Wondercoin is a book of knowledge!

RegistryCoin

Closed-mindedness can be quite comforting for some, but others find that knowledge can be most enlightening, opening "vistas" of which one could never dream. Of late there has been some very smart money moving into the plats when it has been learned that "collecting plat. commems" can be quite fun, and is vastly different than simply "buying bullion".

ericj96

Registry coin and Wonder coin please give me a call on my cell phone.....770-377-3703.

Eric Jordan

RegistryCoin

Hi Eric. I understand that you have spoken at great length with Mitch, and received much valuable information. Good luck with your project.

2manycoins2fewfunds

When will we see final accurate numbers on 2005 production???

wondercoin

IMHO, it will be a while - perhaps into next year.

Wondercoin

quattrocoins

I just bought a 2006 1/2 oz. proof here

Mitch (or anyone else), how can sellers offer these for less than the mint issue price?

They are also availible here for $10 less, but I decided to spend the extra $10 for the "First Strike" designation.

edted to add:

Mint site for mintages

I still need the '04 & '05 for my set!

80sJunkie

wondercoin

Don: Selling "below" mint issue price depends, in part, on what you determine mint issue price actually is. At $2,750 per set for 1.85 oz of Plat, I get $743 as "cost" on that half oz coin (taking into account the US Mint discount for 4 pc set buying). So, that seller actually did not sell too much under real cost after taking into account ebay fees to begin with. And, of course, that seller did not sell at all under cost IMHO after factoring in the PR70DC or two you get out of every 10 sets (40 coins) ordered and amortizing the one or two 70's over the entire lot including PR69 coins. Granted, this is an illustration that no one is "getting rich" by slabbing and selling 2006 Proof Platinum. But, I do not believe anyone is actually losing money either who buys enough of it to have a shot at landing a PR70 coin or two. Wondercoin

quattrocoins

Thanks for your answer, Mitch.
That makes sense.

It still seems like a good bargain, considerig the mint price of $780 for a single 1/2 oz. and the cost of slabbing.

I took the safe road in buying a PR69 @ that price instead of rolling the dice buying one from the mint and trying for a PR70.

SlangNRox

I also bought a 2006 1/2 oz from the same seller but for $5 less than the auction that you bought. Its cheaper than the one that I bought from the mint.


Has the decrease in platinum metal prices led to a decline in demand or cost of the proof platinum eagles?

quattrocoins

WHAT A DEAL!
2000 half once proof for below melt

WTF??

Missed out on the deal of the day!!!

wondercoin

Great deal for sure. I have been paying $565 today for the same coin.

Wondercoin