Bust half grade opinions? NEW PICS and grade revealed

ladyship

Hi All,
I have been lurking here for years .I posted a few times a couple of years ago but decided to take some time to really study coins and read what the experts here have to say.
I just bought this coin and was very pleased. Even with the bad pics can you all take a stab at the grade?And for the bust half nuts the overton #?

Leiana

I think it is probably around a 35. Although it is very difficult to tell.

-Amanda

ledzep87

It has a weak strike.

But, I think it would grade 45.

291fifth

Harshly cleaned VF30.

ladyship

Thanks for your opinions.
In hand it has very nice luster and just honest wear.
I personally think it a nice pick-up for the price.
And I will try to get better pics of it sometime soon.
Any more grade opinions or attribution guesses?

Cladiator

My gut instinct is telling me that these particular photos are not giving us an accurate look at the coin at all. I'll refrain from grading as I really don't think the coin in hand looks anything like it does in the pics.

rec78

XF-45

ladyship

I was trusting my gut instinct when I bought the coin sight unseen off of utterly horrible pics(worse than mine).
Sometimes you just have to gamble on unattributed halves.Especially when you have worn dies. When it came in I judged it to be in the XF40-45 range and sent it off to be graded.Do you think I wasted the grading fee?

JRocco

Technical grade 35ish, but I don't see that coin looking like those pics either. What is the real color of the coin? Is it golden toned or more silver colored? Brown?
There appear to be strong abrasive cleaning marks on the coin- did you see any signs of a physical cleaning on the coin?

Do you have anymore pics we can use to help us go by?

zap1111

If it's what I think it is, I'd like to offer you a couple grand for it (if I had the money)! It appears to be an Overton 114 (R.5) - this is the elusive Large Letters variety. I would put it at VF 30-35 condition, due to what appears to be cleaning, which was so common with this series. Where did you find it?

Check the positioning of the S in States over the P in Pluribus. Only the 114 has the S so far to the left of the P. Also, check to see if there is a bit of a die chip filling in the top left of the upper loop on the 3 in the date. Hard to tell from your photos.

Congratulations!

Some grading services balk at cleaned coins, it seems, but don't worry. If you ever want to sell it, you'll find a buyer ready to pay good money, slabbed or raw (check your Red Book).

Perhaps another bust half nut can help verify its variety. If it's a 114 you just scored a major cherry pick.

zap1111

GOLDSAINT

“When it came in I judged it to be in the XF40-45 range and sent it off to be graded. Do you think I wasted the grading fee?”


Yes Sir Zap1111 has it, an 1830 Large Letter. No doubt, look at how close the D & S are and the notch in the 3. I will assume you sent it to Anacs or NGC since PCGS does not label this variety. When will you have it back?

mozin

This coin appears to be in a PCGS holder already. If it is indeed the O-114 R5, you have a coin worth upwards of $2,000, likely much more. With the pictures provided, I cannot rule out this being the O-114. The PCGS grade is probably VF30-35; tough to place a grade from the pictures provided.

If this is an unattributed O-114, you made a better cherry-pick than I ever made in 55 years of collecting.

Steve27

VF30

Barndog

<< <i>This coin appears to be in a PCGS holder already. >>


I don't think so. My father in law uses air-tites with black foam borders for some of his coins ... I think that's what we're looking at here.

JRocco

Hey-- If this is an O-114 than that would be an incredible cherrypick. I didn't even try to attribute it with that slanted reverse pic, but like Mozin states- I can't rule it out with those pics.
I have my fingers crossed for you

ladyship

Here is a better pic of the critical diagnostics.Coin has not been cleaned,probably dipped sometime in the last few years. But still eye appealing,lots of luster, honest wear.

zap1111

Ka-ching!!

Tell us the story of how you got it.

ladyship

I have been memorizing the Overton book for 2 years now(I like bust halves) the varieties ,the die marriages,all the things that make these coins unique,so one day I am browsing bust halves on the various action sites,ebay,yahoo,and what do I see absolutely awful pics of a coin,no aggressive bidding,just a run of the mill ,overrated,unattributed 1830,BUT something is not right ,The D in United looks way to close to the S in states (At least as far as I can tell by some of the worst pics I have ever seen on a coin auction )So I do a double take,wait a minute I know that coin!!! Nahhh can't be I think to myself,so I spent days trying to tweek the images so I could get a clearer pic,But they were still some of the worst pics ever(I will post them tomorrow)So I went with my gut instinct.And bid!!! And was high bidder!!! At $170 Then had to wait 3 weeks to get the coin ,all the time I am saying to myself,can't be,no way,another Overton 115 for the collection,I have to stop doing this,Then I get the coin.Yippeeee,

Coindexter

Sweet. You can still get cool coins from online auctions.

mozin

I know of half a dozen serious Bustie collectors that regularly check ebay for rare die marriages. You did really well to beat them out on this coin. Had even one of these men noticed the variety, you would have been up into the thousands of dollars range if you wanted to win it.

My guess is such terrible pictures, as you say they were worse than what you have provided, and the fact that 1830 is such a common date with only one marriage as rare as R5, caused the Bustie pros to overlook this coin.

You would get top money in a Sheridan Downey auction. No need to encapsulate it unless you want. Sheridan got over $1,000 last year for a raw G04.

ladyship

Here is the original auction pic of the reverse.

GOLDSAINT

Well you have amazing eyesight Ladyship, if it comes back in an NGC holder as an XF please PM me so I can add it to my hoard, Ha Ha Ha

OKbustchaser

Hate to be a party pooper, but it isn't the LL. It is O-106. Check out the relationship between star 3 and star 11. They are nearly straight across. On the 114 a line drawn through the inner and outer points of star 3 nearly misses star 11.

Large Letter from the Russ Logan collection

Overton 106 from the same collection

Edited to correct link to 106.

ladyship

Sorry Gold Saint Not For Sale

ladyship

Sorry OKbustchaser,You are wrong, check the position of the 5 on the reverse ,also check the A's not filled or even partially filled,On the 106 the 5 is high with an extremely large C . Also wrong obverse the 3 in my coin has a notch

ladyship

By the way same coin in both links, same description,Both links are to the really hard to find Large letter reverse in 1830,Nice trick .But O-106 looks nothing like either of your images or my coin either.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

cleaned AU

dorkkarl

vf-30, but a terrible digi-pic to even be guesing from

K S

ladyship

Hi All, thanks for your input sorry about the terrible pics.
Hopefully these are a more accurate depiction of the coin. ( Still not great but better) If any of you would like to guess again.

GOLDSAINT

Thanks for the much better pictures. I will say XF 45, and it looks like the coin now has a little plastic shine to it. Does that mean it got certified? I still see only 7 graded at NGC?

ladyship

I got the coin back yesterday from the Grading Company. Here She is. I am very happy

mozin

I think NGC was generous by 5 points, but then, I did not see the coin in hand.

You could probably get at least $5,000 for it, now that it is in the NGC XF40 holder. I am happy for you.

ladyship

Thanks for commenting Mozin. This is one of the classic questions, wear versus/ weak strike. Especially on worn dies
Personally I think NGC erred on the low side , I graded it a 45 just on the mint luster and eye appeal alone. But what do I know ,10 seconds looking ( grading Company), versus days of studying with a 10x glass (collector) at least they agreed it wasn't cleaned.

ladyship

This is a pic that shows the difference between weak strike and wear.
Notice only the high points have the luster subdued,or worn off.

JRocco

Congrats on a really great find. I am glad the coin hasn't been harshly cleaned which is what I really thought after seeing the first pics.
That is a very valuable coin and I wish it were mine.
Congrats

ladyship

Thanks JRocco
I am just tickled pink,I love the treasure hunt.
I have been specializing in R 5 +s . And I have spotted a few but the then the bust half experts come along and they bid way out of my price range. It is amazing how pics can totally misrepresent a coin, as they did with this one. But also amazing how so many experts can spot a rare bust at a mile away.

GOLDSAINT

According to my Steve Herman catalog a 30/30 (raw) sold in 3/05 for $4461, and a 40/40 Pq ( raw) sold for $5475 in 8/97.
A plugged, repaired ,cleaned ,25/25 sold for $1380 in 2/06 ,
Are you sure you don't want to sell it ?

stman

<< <i>at least they agreed it wasn't cleaned. >>



Because they slabbed it? I don't know if it's been cleaned or not, but being slabbed has nothing to do with whether it was cleaned or not. Heck, although some of the kool-aid gulpers will disagree..... even the "other" slabbing farm will holder cleaned coins.

mozin

<< <i>

<< <i>at least they agreed it wasn't cleaned. >>



Because they slabbed it? I don't know if it's been cleaned or not, but being slabbed has nothing to do with whether it was cleaned or not. Heck, although some of the kool-aid gulpers will disagree..... even the "other" slabbing farm will holder cleaned coins. >>

I think we all agree the major grading services often encapsulate cleaned Capped Bust Halves. The issue really is just where the grading service says "too much cleaning" and gives the body bag. The coin discussed in this thread apparently was satisfactory to PCGS, the toughest grading service for Bust series.

stman

<< <i>The coin discussed in this thread apparently was satisfactory to PCGS, the toughest grading service for Bust series. >>



Ummm Mozin, back off on that glass please..... it appears it was slabbed by NGC. Furthermore, my comment was to the statement that the OP said


<< <i>at least they agreed it wasn't cleaned >>



Which in fact they said nothing of the sort. I understand your point of too much cleaning. But again, for the benefit of new collectors, they do indeed slab cleaned coins. Toughest grading service, or not.

slumlord98

Not to rain on your parade, but this die marriage has proven to be quite a bit more common than once thought. Many new examples turn up on a regular basis on ebay and at shows. Rated R6 in the 3rd edition of Overton, this die marriage was reduced to R5 (47-65 known) during the last BHNC rarity ratings revision and will eventually be no higher than R4+. High grade specimens are elusive and will continue to command a premium, but now isn't a good time to pay strongly for EF and especially VF specimens, recent auction sales notwithstanding.

Goldsaint, yours is in no peril of being dethroned!