Bust half dime experts

mikeJ

need help on this one, the shield looks like a die break but also possibly damaged. Any comments welcome.

lathmach

Overton?
I'm at work, if you don't get an LM# from someone before I go home, I'll look it up and let you know.
Overton is for the half dollars.

Ray

MrHalfDime

The picture is pretty dark, but it looks like 1833 LM-8/V2 to me. It combines the most common obverse die for the year (Obverse 3), with Reverse Die X, for an R3 die marriage. This particular marriage, in its terminal die state, results in a large retained cud for that reverse at ITED STA.

Incidentally, I love the toning on that obverse. Nice coin!

Cladiator

I concur with MrHalfDime. The coin is the LM8/V2 R3. Noted is a sizable bulge in the shield which is characteristic of the die and I think what you are referring to when you talk about damage. The gargantuan cud that developes in a later die state is quite impressive. It runs from I in UNITED to A in STATES and spans from the rim to the top of the motto banner. I'd say your coin is a very early die state. Nice half dime, I especially like the eye appeal factor on the reverse

Here are your pics...

Cladiator

Here are three other examples of your coin. Got the photos from the Heritage archive and you can clearly see the cud that develops.

Barndog

here's my "cud coin" for this die marriage's reverse

MrHalfDime

Cladiator elaborated a bit on the very late die state (VLDS) of that reverse die (Reverse X), where the enormous retained cud developed at ITED STA. In its earliest die state, however, long before the cud developed, it exhibited a prominent 'die bulge' throughout the horizontal lines (azures) of the reverse shield. This resulted in very little definition to the separation of the horizontal shield lines, and in fact is often used to attribute that reverse die. That reverse die was first used in 1832, in the LM-12/V2 die marriage, where the die bulge is most evident.

An interesting story involves the identification of that reverse die. Several years ago someone submitted a photograph of a love token to one of the major numismatic weeklies, identifying the token as having been made on a Capped Bust dime. The reverse was ground off, and some initials were added, as is typical for love tokens. Only the original obverse was left intact, although it was well circulated.

In a subsequent issue of that publication, Russ Logan, author of the early dime and half dime references, sent in a follow-up comment to the original article, correcting the author and properly identifying the love token as having been made on a Capped Bust half dime. And remember, this was all done from a photograph, with no reference to the diameter of the coin. Not only that, but Russ identified the die marriage from the photograph, as well, even though the reverse was ground off to make the love token.

Now I knew that Russ was good, but this seemed like grandstanding to me, so I asked him how he was able to identify both obverse and reverse dies, and even correct the author, that it was a half dime and not a dime, all from a grainy newspaper photograph. Russ grinned and told me that, because of the die bulge on the reverse of that marriage, the obverse never struck up fully on the hair above Miss Liberty's ear, making positive identification of the marriage quite easy, using just the obverse, or just the reverse. As the obverse die was there, and the date was visible, he knew the date, the die marriage, and of course the denomination. I was truly humbled. Imagine properly attributing a half dime die marriage, with only the obverse die remaining, all from a newspaper photograph, and even correcting the author that it was a half dime and not a dime.

Apparently, by 1833 the die bulge had sunk back into place, so the azures for the 1833 LM-8/V2 struck up properly.

Cladiator

Great story MrHD. I wish I had gotten into these coins earlier, perhaps I'd have had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Logan and Mr. Reiver. There is one thing missing though....it's a half dime story with no mention of a certain Cinncinati numismatist....hm, could there be a flaw in my theory?

mikeJ

Thanks for all the replys I was a little unsure about purchasing this as halfdimes are new terrirory for me still. Mr. halfdime that kind of info makes this hobby worthwhile.

JrGMan2004

<< <i>Here are three other examples of your coin. Got the photos from the Heritage archive and you can clearly see the cud that develops.

>>

I believe coin #2 there was a VF30 in the Reiver sale... the #3 coin is an NCS VG Details Damaged coin that I now own... the VF30 sold in the main sale for about $550... I bought mine for about $50 in the Internet AfterSale... I think I got a good deal

Cladiator

<< <i>I believe coin #2 there was a VF30 in the Reiver sale... the #3 coin is an NCS VG Details Damaged coin that I now own... the VF30 sold in the main sale for about $550... I bought mine for about $50 in the Internet AfterSale... I think I got a good deal >>

You are correct sir and yes, I think you got a pretty good deal on a really cool coin