Does anyone ever use the term "fictitious value" when describing a coin's value over face?

Longacre

I was reading the very interesting article on the ANR website that QDB wrote about John Walker Scott. Here is an except below related to fictitious value. I also included the entire article in case anyone wants to read further. It is very interesting and contains a lot of tidbits and "gossip". Does anyone know if the term fictitious value is used today? I have never heard of it before, but in a way it does seem to fit, especially for items such as extra leaf quarters, extra tree quarters, etc.


"Scott in the Coin Trade, to 1884

In 1871, he published the Coin Priced Catalogue, Showing the Fictitious Value of All American Coins Prepared for the Use of Collectors, Brokers, and Storekeepers, this being about coins as per the title. (“Fictitious” value is the same as premium value, or the amount above face value a coin is worth. The fictitious term was rarely used elsewhere, as it could also imply the values were false or had no basis.) This was followed in 1877 by The Coin Chart Manual, Supplementary to Thompson’s Bank Note and Commercial Reporter, containing fac-similes of all the gold and silver coins found in circulation, this having been offered earlier as a supplement to the periodical named."

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Here is the full article:

Focus On People | September 8, 2006 (John Walker Scott)

Introduction

In 1999 the writer (QDB) had the pleasant experience of tracking down the life stories of nearly 200 different people and firms who had handed specimens of the 1804 silver dollar. One of the best known names in this lineup was John Walter Scott—not because much about him personally was known, but because the Scott name was and still is famous in stamps. In that field, stamps are attributed by Scott numbers.

As to Scott’s coin activities, the printed trail is laced with misinformation and hyperbole, for promotion was a Scott trademark. Here are some biographical notes, extensive for a “Scrapbook” feature, but hopefully interesting:

The Early Years

In the 19th century there were multiple companies bearing the Scott name, including J.W. Scott & Co., Scott Stamp & Coin Co., and the similarly named Scott Stamp & Coin Co., Ltd.

When John Walter Scott, born in London on November 2, 1845, entered the stamp and coin business is not known with certainty, and may have been the 1860 date he claimed (for example, in an advertisement in The Coin Collector’s Journal, December 1882). More likely, at least with respect to his activities in America, the date was no earlier than 1863, the year he came to the United States from England. Apparently, his trade was not as successful as he had hoped, and he sought to better his fortune by heading for the California gold fields. However, by that time the era of the single entrepreneur achieving success in the Golden State had mostly passed, and business was done by large corporations. The era of a miner standing in a stream washing gold dust with a pan was already a part of history. Unsuccessful in his efforts in the West, he returned to New York City and re-entered the stamp trade, possibly dealing in coins as well, although stamps were certainly his main line of endeavor. His store was in lower Manhattan at 34 Liberty Street. Likely, he did very little in coins, for else he would have attracted notice in the American Journal of Numismatics (published in New York City) and elsewhere.

In 1868 he issued the first edition of what would become known as The Standard Postage Stamp Catalogue, under title of Descriptive Catalogue of American and Foreign Postage Stamps. The hobby of philatelics was expanding rapidly, and Scott was at the fore.
Scott in the Coin Trade, to 1884

In 1871, he published the Coin Priced Catalogue, Showing the Fictitious Value of All American Coins Prepared for the Use of Collectors, Brokers, and Storekeepers, this being about coins as per the title. (“Fictitious” value is the same as premium value, or the amount above face value a coin is worth. The fictitious term was rarely used elsewhere, as it could also imply the values were false or had no basis.) This was followed in 1877 by The Coin Chart Manual, Supplementary to Thompson’s Bank Note and Commercial Reporter, containing fac-similes of all the gold and silver coins found in circulation, this having been offered earlier as a supplement to the periodical named.

In 1875 J.W. Scott & Co. was at 146 Fulton Street, New York City, an address he maintained for a long time. A fine magazine, The Coin Collector’s Journal, was begun by Scott in December 1875, under the editorship of Édouard Frossard (who would later turn against Scott, and virulently) and continued in 13 volumes and 157 issues until December 1888. The last 12 volumes, constituting the majority of the series, were mostly edited by David U. Proskey (an opportunist described by a competitor as having an “India rubber conscience”).

On October 23-24, 1877, J.W. Scott & Co. held its first auction. The venue was the sale room of Bangs & Co. This 62-page offering, Catalogue of a Fine Collection of Gold, Silver & Copper Coins and a Very Complete Collection of Centennial Medals, included publicity about the curious and rare 1793 Strawberry Leaf large cent. Catalogued by Scott himself, according to some accounts (alternatively, David Proskey may have done the work), the effort was later criticized by a jealous competitor and former employee Édouard Frossard in Numisma, who expected better of Scott. Frossard called the sale an event of little numismatic importance and for good measure noted: “There is no method in the arrangement, the descriptions are for the better part crude, and mostly faulty, especially in the estimates of degree of preservation, most of the silver looking as if it had been polished or burnished.… The work of a numismatist is the result of close and undisturbed application, attention, and training; it can never be satisfactorily accomplished by hurried consultations with chance visitors during the bustle and hurry incidental to a miscellaneous publishing business and the retailing of postage stamps.” (As quoted by Charles Davis, Armand Champa Library III, Lot 2566.)

Frossard Judges Scott and Proskey

David Ulysses Proskey, who may or may not have catalogued Scott’s October 1877 sale, remained as a consultant to Scott and sometime staff member for years afterward and, among other activities, edited the excellently compiled Coin Collector’s Journal. Many topics came under his purview, and notable articles were turned out on such varied subjects as Civil War tokens, Fractional Currency, small denomination California gold coins, Hard Times tokens, store cards, Masonic medals, and more.

In the first decade or two of his career Proskey was considered by his hardly-unbiased competitors to be a very bright man, but one who sometimes discarded ethics in favor of profit, not necessarily an unusual situation then or now.

In May 1880, competitor Édouard Frossard, in his house organ Numisma, fired this salvo at Scott and Proskey:
“SCOTT & CO., ON MR. G.C. STENZ: See St. Luke, Chap. Vi., v. 41 and 42. A little over a year ago the above named firm made in their Coin Journal an impertinent, bitter, and most unjust attack against Mr. W.E. Woodward, simply because this gentleman, after having temporarily withdrawn from the coin business, chose again to enter the lists as a compiler of coin sale catalogues. They feared that with a new opponent of this caliber in the field a still lesser number of coin collections would find their way to market through the capacious stomach of the Fulton Street octopod [Scott]. And in this the firm was right—the day is in fact as distant as ever when, to use the language of its head, body and tail, ‘we shall control all important coin sales in the United States.’

“More recently in an article which on its face appears like fair enough criticism, but is really garbled and mendacious, worthy to have originated in the fertile brain of D.P. [David Proskey], wholesale manufacturer of unique Centennial medals, shirker of auctioneer’s bills, and present confidential clerk of the Great Boaster, the onslaught against competition in the coin business is renewed, this time with the Stenz sale as an objective point. In this so-called review, which appears in the Coin Journal for April, there may possibly be one or two grains of truth, but the difficulty is to discover them among the mass of chaff. In justice to ourselves, the compiler of the catalogue and of Mr. Stenz, the owner of the coins sold Feb. 27th and 28th last, we will in as few words as possible, show wherein the so-called review was correct, and wherein it deliberately erred;

“1st No. This sale was not the remnant of the Stenz collection. It was composed of the nearly entire cabinet of the Rev. T. Wilkinson, of Berlin, Prussia, and other coins purchased by Mr. Stenz in Germany since his previous sale. Anyone who will take the trouble to compare the two catalogues can easily convince himself of this.

“2d. Yes. Here the firm is right. The cabinet was exceedingly rich in time and valuable foreign crowns and thalers. It is probably for this reason that the sale proved such a decided financial success.

“3d. No. The pieces did not “in most instances bring about their face value.” The face value of the collection was about $700. The amount realized over $2,300.

“4th. No. The 1843 Proof set alone was offered as stated in a Wall Street broker’s window, at $50. It was also, we believe, offered to Scott & Co. at $50 less. Why did they not buy it? The set is certainly, both on account of its beauty and its great rarity, well worth $100. In fact, we will give Scott & Co. $100 for a duplicate set of this or an earlier date. Can they procure one? Scott & Co. should have purchased this. It would have proved a remunerative investment, but the margin of profit between $50 and selling price was probably not considered sufficiently large to induce purchase. That set was bought for $100 by Mr. Geo. W. Cogan on an order of $150 or less. Other bids were made to $95, and there were at least 6 bids of from $75 to $95. Now what would the Great Boaster have done under like circumstances. Pray, let us know.

“5th. Yes. Mr. Stenz bought at his sale, much to the apparent chagrin of our distinguished contemporary, whose representative had come fully prepared to pick up rare silver coins in nearly proof condition at about 2-3 [times?] face value. Mr. Stenz represented several buyers just as the G.B. apparently does at his own sales. Finally. We are forced to agree with our esteemed and learned reviewer when he says “The course of proceeding we have related should be discountenanced by all who are interested in collecting coins.” By following himself the rules he is so eager to have others observe, he may possibly, in the course of time, regain the confidence of collectors, and will no longer be obliged to do, at his own sales, that which he unjustly charges Mr. Stenz of having done.”
Another Burst from Frossard

In January 1881, Frossard took telling aim again, and in his house organ Numisma, noted that the description, “rare thus,” apparently offensive to Frossard, was to be found in “Scott & Co.’s catalogues, generally ascribed to Mr. David Proskey, a nice looking young man, with a level head and a big India rubber conscience, have frequently contained the expression, and if any credit of originality is due in the use of the term it belongs to Mr. David Proskey.”

Sometimes a casual comment is remembered for a long time, and today in the annals of numismatic history many if not most detailed mentions of Proskey revive the “India rubber conscience” description.

An earlier note, reflective of Proskey’s integrity or lack thereof, is by William Poillon, secretary of the American Numismatic and Archaeological Society, a man who had been stung by Proskey. Poillon told of his experiences in his compilation of the minutes of the Society’s meeting of January 15, 1878 (As printed in the American Journal of Numismatics, April 1878):
“A regular meeting of the Society was held January 15, 1878, at Mott Memorial Hall. President [Charles E.] Anthon in the chair.… Mr. Poillon made a statement in reference to a set of Washington pieces, known as the ‘Washington Initiation Medal, Fredericksburg, Md.,’ which he had purchased on September 3, 1877, from D. Proskey. In a letter which he had received from Mr. Proskey on that date, it was represented that only six sets existed, and that the dies were destroyed. This statement regarding the destruction of the dies, Mr. Poillon pronounced false, and to prove the same, he exhibited the dies, which he had purchased nearly four months after the statement was made which caused him to pay an exorbitant price for the set.”
In April 1878, Proskey advertised his own business at 765 Broadway, stating he was a dealer in “coins, medals, tokens and numismatic works. Masonic, Centennial, Washington, Lincoln, Hayes, and Tilden, a specialty. Rare store cards and political medals. Forty-four page Illustrated Catalogue of United States, foreign and ancient Roman silver coins, sent postpaid for 25 cents.” (American Journal of Numismatics, April 1878.) One can imagine that Poillon’s shadow did not darken Proskey’s doorway.

For the Coin Collector’s Journal he wrote a serial article on early copper cents, forming the basis of a book later written by Francis Worcester Doughty and published in 1890. George Clapp, whose fine cabinet of cents originated with the Ellsworth collection once said that Proskey knew more about large cents than any other man he had ever met (cf. John W. Adams, comment in the collection of Adams’ 1794 cents, 1982). Without a doubt, Proskey was a person of great numismatic knowledge, but as was later the case with certain other geniuses in the field (Virgil M. Brand and F.C.C. Boyd come to mind), most of what he knew never reached print except in The Coin Collector’s Journal and a few auction catalogues. In the 1880s and 1890s he bought many unsold Proof coins including Indian cents from the Mint, and in later years he continued to buy wholesale groups as well. Unfortunately, the specifics of his acquisitions were never recorded.

We have Frossard to thank for letting us know in Numisma, January 1882, that “Scott has bounced his ex-confidential clerk, Dave Proskey, or as the Boston Journal expresses it, ‘Mr. David Proskey has severed his connection with the firm of Scott & Co.’” The American Journal of Numismatics noted in the same month: “We understand that Mr. Proskey has resigned his connection with the Coin Collector’s Journal, and resumed his business as a dealer in coins, medals, etc., in New York.”

In the Meantime

In the years after 1877, J.W. Scott conducted additional auctions, bringing the total up to 29.

In 1879, Scott had his office on Fulton Street, New York, and a separate facility at 1228 Chestnut Street, Philadelphia. In January of the same year he published the first issue of The American Journal of Philately and Coin Advertiser, a quarterly formerly known as the American Journal of Philately. Published through March 1886, in 8 volumes, 28 issues, the periodical is little remembered today.

In 1879 J.W. Scott & Co. restruck 500 1861 Confederate States of America half dollars, by taking 500 1861-O half dollars from circulation, drilling off the reverse inscriptions, and impressing the coins with the original CSA half dollar die. These were offered for sale to collectors, various phony “sold out” announcements were made, etc., an interesting escapade. Today, these restrikes are highly prized by numismatists.

The Calman Brothers

In 1884, John Walter Scott sold his original J.W. Scott & Co., sometimes also known as the Scott Stamp & Coin Co., to the Calman brothers. The Calmans continued the general trade style as Scott Stamp & Coin Co., Ltd. Under their ownership, Scott Stamp & Coin conducted 154 auctions.

In 1886, Scott Stamp & Coin published three issues of The Curiosity Cabinet, which earlier and later were published by William P. Brown (one of the longest-lived but least chronicled dealers in New York City).

Effective September 1, 1887, Lyman H. Low, who had been conducting his own business under the name of Lyman H. Low & Co., Numismatists, at 853 Broadway, New York, became manager of the Coin Department of Scott Stamp & Coin Co., Ltd., 721 Broadway.” In 1889 the company moved to 12 East 23rd Street.

In June 1892, Scott Stamp & Coin Company, Ltd., advertised that it had been in business for 30 years and in the process had become acquainted with nearly every collector of coins, medals, paper money, and postage stamps in the United States and Canada and had consummated transactions with a greater part of them. A staff of 19 people occupied a combined office and showroom measuring 100 feet deep in a prime location described at the time as “uptown.”

Raymond and the Scott Coin Department

In The Numismatist, April 1930, editor Frank G. Duffield took note of the development by the Scott Stamp & Coin Company of New York City of a series of popular albums in loose-leaf format. The Scott firm had stated that 25 years earlier the company had discontinued its activity in rare coins, for they felt that it was impossible for coin collecting ever to become popular because “at that time the collection of coins required bulky cabinets; such things as were available were not only expensive but were ugly in appearance. They had no place in the home, excepting perhaps some out of the way corner in the cellar.” Duffield found it gratifying that the venerable Scott firm acknowledged the present interest in coin collecting. Recently, Scott’s coin activities had been reactivated under the direction of Wayte Raymond (see listing), who in 1933 would take over the management of the Coin Department.

In April 1932, The Numismatist included a notice by J.C. Morgenthau & Co., a subsidiary of Scott Stamp & Coin Company, 23 West 47th Street, New York, which advised that rare stamps and coins would be sold by auction “in our own perfectly appointed auction rooms.” Coin collections were to be catalogued by Wayte Raymond of New York and J.G. Macallister of Philadelphia. In 1933, Raymond, who had been involved with the Coin Department since about 1930, took over its management, a position he would retain until 1946 (while operating a separate coin business in the meantime). In spring 1934, after a lapse of 46 years The Coin Collector’s Journal, founded by J.W. Scott in 1875 and discontinued in 1888, had resumed publication in New York by the Scott Stamp & Coin Company, with Wayte Raymond and Prescott H. Thorp as editors. On September 10, 1934, Scott Stamp & Coin Company launched the “new” Standard Catalogue of United States Coins and Currency, ready September 10, which was said to list and describe for the first time in one volume all United States coins and currency. Priced at $2.50, the volume had been compiled by Wayte Raymond.

In the summer of 1935, Scott moved to new and enlarged quarters on the third floor of 1 West 47th Street, a few steps off Fifth Avenue. Two advertising pages were taken in The Numismatist to acquaint collectors with the “lavish detail of our new home.” Looking more like a museum than a retail coin store, the galleries exhibited much open space.

The October 1946 issue of The Numismatist included this: “In the early days of the coin and stamp business, Scott’s always had a coin department. During the late ’80s and early ’90s the late Lyman H. Low was the manager, and it was he who produced the first Standard Coin Catalogues, the last and best editions of which were published in 1893. At about that time it became evident to the Scott Company that dealing in stamps was more profitable than the sale of coins, so the department was closed and Mr. Low went into business for himself. From that time until 1930 the Scott Company had no coin department and no publications relating to coins. Late in 1930 Wayte Raymond made an arrangement with Hugh M. Clark to operate a coin department in connection with the sale of the National Coin Album pages and various popular coins. This operation continued until the summer of 1945 when illness of the manager, Leonard Kusterer, and lack of other competent help made it impossible to continue the project. After a period of deliberation it was considered advisable to put the department in charge of New Netherlands Coin Company, now managed by Charles M. Wormser, son of the late Moritz Wormser, a numismatist known to all. The newly formed department will carry the most complete retail stock in the country, of National Coin Album pages, binders, Popular Albums, and all publications of Wayte Raymond, Inc., handled by an expert sales staff. Price list of albums and books on request.”

In June 1950, the Scott Stamp & Coin Company, Inc., the Coin Department of which was operated by the New Netherlands Coin Company, noted: “Our auction sales are growing!!” The sales were said to have “More consignments, more bidders’ mail and sales, conservative classifications, insignificant returns, and prompt settlement.”

J.W. Scott & Co., Ltd.

Returning to John Walter Scott himself:

In 1884 Scott received a large sum when he sold his Scott Stamp & Coin Co., and set about enjoying his respite from the everyday cares of tending shop and issuing catalogues. However, he invested unwisely, and soon most of his assets were gone.

In 1889, over the vigorous opposition of the Calman brothers, John Walter Scott set up a new firm, J.W. Scott & Co., Ltd. In a situation that must have been confusing to observers, J.W. Scott & Co., Ltd., went on to conduct 69 auction sales.

In The Numismatist, January 1895, Augustus G. Heaton reported his visit to the other Scott company:
“J.W. Scott Company, a similar name to the Scott Stamp and Coin Company, but of different ownership and management, occupied a lower floor in premises on John Street, New York City. Scott himself and a number of clerks were engaged in the stamp trade however, “coins, though subordinate, receive considerable attention and very choice pieces of all kinds are frequently to be found.” John Street remained the address for years thereafter.
On January 15, 1906, he joined the American Numismatic and Archaeological Society. Scott maintained his company until 1917, when he sold out to J.E. Handshaw. On January 4, 1919, Scott died at his home. He was survived by his widow and five children. Years later on May 28, 1928, certain of his estate coins were auctioned by Wayte Raymond.

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