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I got suckered

Don't lnow how to post a link, but check out this one I bought when in a state of eBay boredom.

Item #: 220025718261

I think it is deceptive at best. He does explain in his description, but of course I didn't read it. Wonder who else took the bait? Funny thing is I actually HATE the cards with the "cuts" that are legitimate. But, I figured if it is 6/9 it has to be worth at least $9.99. I guess I better stick to to the vintage I know best.

Comments

  • Lothar52Lothar52 Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭
    forget that guy...dont pay...
  • Wonder who else took the bait?

    Obvioulsy you were the only one. At least it was just 9.99
  • 1420sports1420sports Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭
    It did say FACSIMILE several times, so he didn't really do anything dishonest.

    For 10 bucks, it was a pretty inexpensive lesson.
    collecting various PSA and SGC cards
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    The title is deceptive. It is an out for you. I'd use it.

    Steve
    Good for you.
  • Bosox1976Bosox1976 Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Agree with 1420 - seller said FACSIMILE (in caps) twice and after-market card as well. Weird card to make, but a cursory reading would tell anyone it is not a real auto - as the price would also suggest. I'd say chalk it up to experience.
    Mike
    Bosox1976
  • DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭
    Have you tried e-mailing the buyer and saying you made a mistake thinking it was a real autograph and can't buy it, but will help in him not getting charged for final value fees on Ebay and paypal him .20 for ebay insertion fees?


    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    It is fraud.

    She is doing it on lots of other players as well.

    The fraud springs from the title.

    Another example of eBay making millions from
    consumer fraud, while turning buyers away
    from online commerce and card collecting.

    storm
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,246 ✭✭
    Is it really fraud? It's no different than what a lot of businesses do - they advertise something (i.e. the title here) and then when you get in to the store, you see that there is "fine print" about the actual item. He does tell you, more than once and in capital letters, that the auto is not a real auto - it's up to the buyer to read about what he is buying. If the guy doesn't tell you its a facsimile, then that is fraud. This is just typical sales strategy that you, as a buyer, need to be more careful of.
    image
  • jfkheatjfkheat Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree that the seller is up front about he signature being a facsimile but are these licensed by anyone. It looks like he is just taping the facsimile signature to a card and numbering it to whatever he wants. What's to stop him from doing it to hundreds of cards of any player he choses.
    James
  • stevekstevek Posts: 29,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No question that is an intentionally deceptive product.
  • Any seller that has an Abraham Lincoln cut auto for a 24.99 buy it now has to be trying to pull the wool over someones eyes. When things are too good to be true...........
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "Is it really fraud?"

    /////////////////////////////////////

    If you mean "can the prosecutor get a conviction?," then
    the answer is "maybe, maybe not." The "intent" of the seller is
    clear and that is "to sucker" consumers. If I was the
    "prosecutor," I would go for it.


    ////////////////////////////////////

    "This is just typical sales strategy that you, as a buyer, need to be more careful of. "

    ///////////////////////////////////////////////////

    Deceptive advertising is really not a strategy. It is a civil crime.

    The notion that people need to be careful is true. But, it is not OK/legal
    to mislead "stupid or un-careful" people.

    In any event, the title is a clear violation of the eBay TOS. It also
    violates the VERO warnings that now appear at the botton of the
    autograph "list your item" page.

    The subject seller is now engaged in the same "strategy" with other cards.

    When this stuff happens to us, it does not harm the card business/hobby.
    When it happens to newbies and folks who are not as sophisticated as
    we are, it is another nail in the coffin of the hobby/biz.

    storm


    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    This seller broke an ebay policy when she/he failed to mention facsimile in the title.

    just because it is mentioned later on is irrelavant.


    Steve
    Good for you.


  • << <i>Don't lnow how to post a link, but check out this one I bought when in a state of eBay boredom.

    Item #: 220025718261

    I think it is deceptive at best. He does explain in his description, but of course I didn't read it. Wonder who else took the bait? Funny thing is I actually HATE the cards with the "cuts" that are legitimate. But, I figured if it is 6/9 it has to be worth at least $9.99. I guess I better stick to to the vintage I know best. >>


    Quick question: as you clicked "buy it now" thinking it was a legitimate cut autograph, did you think to yourself, "this guy's a sucka...."?

    Just curious...
  • Seller clearly states the obvious......next time read the description. No prosecutor would touch that alleged fraud case
  • yankeeno7yankeeno7 Posts: 9,248 ✭✭✭
    I see no deception by the seller. The title gets you to look at his auction. Within the auction he describes EXACTLY what is being sold. No false premise here, folks. The seller even tells you that it wasnt released by the company this way...aftermarket, fascimile, numbered by the seller, etc....couldnt have disclosed any better within the auction.

    Buyers have to take responsibility for what they are buying. Buyer beware.


  • << <i>I see no deception by the seller. The title gets you to look at his auction. Within the auction he describes EXACTLY what is being sold. No false premise here, folks. The seller even tells you that it wasnt released by the company this way...aftermarket, fascimile, numbered by the seller, etc....couldnt have disclosed any better within the auction.

    Buyers have to take responsibility for what they are buying. Buyer beware. >>




    My feelings exactly. Even though a bunch of people (usually newbies) get burned by these things, its just one more part of the hobby that will never go away. When there is money to be made, there will ALWAYS be someone trying to scam. Buyers have got to start educating themselves better. Take one of these auctions down and 5 more will pop up. Ebay really doesnt care because they still made their cut and will continue to do so. People will even put "I am selling this card as a reprint" in bold letters, and people will still bid 52 Mantles and T 206 Wagners and 33 Goudey Lajoies up to 3,000! I dont get it.............
  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,246 ✭✭


    << <i>I see no deception by the seller. The title gets you to look at his auction. Within the auction he describes EXACTLY what is being sold. No false premise here, folks. The seller even tells you that it wasnt released by the company this way...aftermarket, fascimile, numbered by the seller, etc....couldnt have disclosed any better within the auction.

    Buyers have to take responsibility for what they are buying. Buyer beware. >>



    This was exactly the point I made earlier.

    A lot of things work this way, for example, "You can buy this new XXXXX model car for $199 a month!" Of course you can. When you read further into the ad, you see that it sure is $199 a month, but for 84 months, and plus taxes and fees.

    How much more clear could that seller be? He got you to look at his auction, and then told you what it was. It's up to you at that point to recognize crap for what it is. He basically tells you so. Case closed.
    image
  • It's a sham, clear and simple. Anyone that defends this deception _may_ not be as forthright in their own dealings. Report this sneaky azz.

    Besides, he err'd and didn't place his auction in the "Paperstock Cutout" category.

    Where worthless fakes belong.
  • yankeeno7yankeeno7 Posts: 9,248 ✭✭✭
    So similar to aftermarket vehicle parts, its all deception and fraud, eh?

    No, I really don't think so....

    I don't think anyone here is saying that the guy's product is a good thing. And it's quite a slam to some really good board members to even insinuate they are not forthright and are shady in their dealings. That's an assumption that is completely out of line.

    The question was if the seller was shady in his auction descriptions. He wasnt. Was his product shady? Not for my judgement but the product does suck and he sucks for taking advantage of people inexperienced in collecting.
  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,246 ✭✭
    yankeeno7 is spot on, again.

    I'm not defending this seller, and as a seller myself, I would never a.) sell this type of junk and b.) sell anything in this fashion. And further, I don't like the fact that he/she is going to nab some less savvy collectors by doing this.

    But then again, how savvy do you have to be to read the auction listing? Again, if he doesn't put the word "facsimile" in his listing several times (and in caps), then you have an issue. There are plenty of fraudulent auctions on Ebay involving sportscards that will make your blood boil. Go after them, because reporting auctions like this just wastes everyone's time, and allows less time to go after the real sleazy sellers and their fraudulent auctions.
    image
  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092
    Screw the legality of the whole thing. This person's an a-hole. A while back when I decided to invest in some Carl Crawford RC's, I found some Topps Traded auto RCs for sale at a very good price (but the price was high enough so that it didn't feel too good to be true), so I did the buy it now for 5 of them. Then I look at his other auctions to see if there were any other bargains and found that this guy had just about every auto'd RC from a lot of sets. Then I realized they weren't the inserted version- they were regular issued cards that were auto'd at Minor League games. With some issues the only thing that distinguishes the autos from teh regular is the "Topps Autograph" stamp in the corner, which I never thought to look for. Although this guy was selling what he said he was (an auto'd RC) he made no attempt to let potential buyers know that they weren't the inserted version. In his defense, he refunded my money when I told him I misunderstood (I'm sure he gets that a lot), so my experience wasn't too bad, but what kind of person intentionally misleads someone into buying something different from what they want?

    Just because it holds up in a court of law doesn't mean it's right. O.J.'s free isn't he?

    Lee
  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092
    Furthermore, who in the hell would want a regular issue card that has a hole cut in it and a fake autograph inserted into said hole?

    Lee
  • just eat $10 and learn your lesson to read the description. What is worse is when the seller actually lies throughout the entire auction. This is just the usual lying. I say pick your battles and move on.
    Running an Ebay store sure takes a lot more time than a person would think!
  • Mantle fan;



    I wrote "May" not "Is". Who's making the assumptions? not I. Just a reminder, that some may (SOME not ALL) become a product of their environment. Besides, we're all innocent -until we've been caught image


    That seller was and is absolutely wrong. He's preying on those that aren't eBay savvy; kids, parents or grandparents looking for a unique gift.... I'm not gonna pull punches here, I just would look closer at one that defends that crook.

    As far as your auto parts defense; If an item's title read, "Johnson Rod for a '67 Buick" and furthur in the description said it was a "Johnston rod" then you're example would also be deceptive. My interpretation of a sham obviously differs from yours'.

    Incidentally, I believe the guy that was ripped off would likely have a strong case by the simple mis-categorization snafu alone.

    If I've offended anyone then I apologize. If I've exposed anyone, well there's always karma.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    I do not sense that anybody is defending the bad seller.

    We just have different views about what the buyer's
    responsibility is in the matter.

    But all of that aside: The title is a violation of the eBay
    TOS that I and others are forced to abide, or have our
    listings pulled. The description is fine and the product
    is kind of a fun novelty item which should be sold as
    such.

    I agree that the "violation" is not worth reporting.

    My previously stated views were in support of a board
    member who seemed like he might want to get out of a
    bad deal and I was simply giving him the ammo to attempt
    to do so.

    storm
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,728 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You can argue that the title may be misleading but the seller does state explicitly several times that the card is a facsimile. What would you expect for $9.99? If the seller set the BIN price at a price comparable to what an actual auto card is worth, then I'd agree that he is trying to pull a fast one. I'm sure if it were an actual auto card and you got it for $9.99 because the seller didn't realize the actual value of the card, that you wouldn't offer to send more money to help make up the difference. For $9.99, I'm not sure why this issue is even worth such a debate in the first place.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Bottom line is the seller used a false Title. The buyer could opt out on that reason alone. Ebay TOS was violated and no matter what the description says or how much it should cost if authentic matters at all.

    I am not saying the seller is a scam. he simply may have made a mistake and wanted to include 'facsimile' in the title and simply forgot.
    by doing so he allowed the buyer a way out. In ebay land that is. In the real world possibly no.

    Steve
    Good for you.
  • yankeeno7yankeeno7 Posts: 9,248 ✭✭✭
    I agree Steve.

    I do still wonder one thing...would it matter which description he put in the title? If he put in the word "Aftermarket" or "Fascimile auto"?

    Would the buyers still have purchased the cards?

    Thankfully it was only 10 bucks. It's a tough lesson probably most of us had learned at one time or another buying on Ebay.

    One thing we can say for certain...Ebay is happy.
  • DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭
    All these posts have been entertaining, what with talk about prosecutors and fraud, Ebay TOS, VERO, etc...but has the buyer contacted the seller?

    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
  • The title is a violation of the eBay

    Where is that rule?? I have not found it and I think eveyone knows that I usually have the link real quick to an Ebay rule.. There are literally thousands of 8X10s on sell on Ebay that when you read the description will say pre-printed autograph. There are 3 Power Sellers that all they sell are pre-printed autographs.

    I found the rule on the 8X10s and they are in violation, but I do not see anything saying that you have to put facsimile in the title.


    What this seller is doing is really no different than the sellers who were taking normal cards and usign a foil stamper and making them 1/1s. Deceptive, but illegal not really due to the "first sale doctrine" even though I think Upper Deck managed to get them slowed down.

    Auto sales in general is the worlds worst at pulling the bait and switch. First rule you are taught when you sale cars is "nver sell an ad vehicle as the dealership will loose money." If you are forced to the point make sure you do everything you can to increase the sales price and lower their trade in value.
  • link

    This is the closest thing I found to the rule on the title and it is very subjective. Since it is a facsimile of his autograph it is still technically his autograph just a copy of it. That falls under the KWS rule and that is a very fine line and argumentive.

    This is a prime example of why you should read everything before you click to bid or buy. And remember the golden rule if it is too good to be true it most likely is.

    I have seen sellers list thinks like a "signed 2005 Topps Albert Pujols" card thet they signed themselves with their real name. They never said the card was signed by Pujols so while deceptive they did not do anything illegal.

    That is the thing with buying any autograph on Ebay you have to watch the wording of the listing
  • Like I said earlier............the buyer thought it was getting a 6/9 auto of Stargell for less than 10 bucks......

    When you clicked "buy it now," didn't YOU thick "boy this seller is a sucker!!!"

    Ironic, huh?
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Sellers are not permitted to create titles for their listings that do not accurately describe the item for sale.


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭
    Feel free to rejoin the rest of us in the real world when you get the chance.
    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
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