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Joe Dumars a HOF??

natetrooknatetrook Posts: 613 ✭✭✭
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
Anyone surprised by this?

Not sure if his numbers support this. Definitely Barkley and Wilkins, but
was wondering if anyone predicted this pick.

Comments

  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,607 ✭✭✭✭
    I agree, the stats are very borderline. But there's so much politics involved in the voting process - it's just disgusting. Tell me how Dumars gets in and Adrian Dantley is STILL waiting to be inducted???
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • ndleondleo Posts: 4,144 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A a Pistons fan, I think he deserves to be in. He didn't make it on the first ballot, so it's not like he walked right in. With his two titles and Bad Boys run, his case is probably just as strong as Wilkins'. Nique could score but only one scoring title (thanks to Jordan), didn't play defense, or win in the playoffs.
    Mike
  • redlegsredlegs Posts: 949 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dumars is definitely a borderline candidate with his stats. His championships put him in.

    Here are his stats...
    16.1 points per game
    4.5 assists per game
    2.2 rebounds per game
    .460 field goal %

    I have always felt that Artis Gilmore should be in. I know he played his first 5 years in the ABA, however, so did Dan Issel and Dr. J and they are both in. Here are his stats...

    18.8 points per game
    12.3 rebounds per game
    2.3 assists per game
    .582 field goal %
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,607 ✭✭✭✭
    Oh and Dantley's career stats?

    24.3 points per game (15th all time), including 4 years in a row where he averaged 30 points or more

    23,177 points

    6 All Star Games

    And his HOF Monitor: 126 (Likely HOFer > 135)

    Yeah he was basically just a scorer, but he was one of the best ever. Makes zero sense why he's not in the Hall yet.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • ndleondleo Posts: 4,144 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I liked Dantley and felt he was robbed of a title when he was traded for Mark Aguirre. The Pistons were going to win that year regardless of who played SF and that trade was done for personal reasons (Isiah didn't like Dantley).

    The reason Dantley isn't in is because he wasn't well liked. I'm not saying that is right, but that is one reason he isn't in. Plus the fact that the Pistons won 2 titles after he left, hurts his playoff cred.
    Mike
  • daveryan2001daveryan2001 Posts: 43
    The NBA puts championships above individual stats obviously.

    DeBuscherre, and Bill Bradley are in. Heinsonh, Bailey Howell are in.

    Lots of good, but not great players who happened to be part of legendary teams are in, while stat monsters
    like Dantley are left out.
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,607 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I liked Dantley and felt he was robbed of a title when he was traded for Mark Aguirre. The Pistons were going to win that year regardless of who played SF and that trade was done for personal reasons (Isiah didn't like Dantley). >>



    Is there a bigger a-hole in NBA history? God, I can't stand Isiah Thomas! He's not only an a-hole, but a complete moron too. It will be fun watching him bury the Knicks even further this year and then trying to deflect the blame to someone else. No wonder he got along so well with Bobby Knight. They're cut from the same dirty cloth.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • gregmo32gregmo32 Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭
    The Baseketball Hall of Fame is not about statistics. The baseball heavy influence of stats and their importance should not overflow into other sports. Basketball and Football are sports where team is a complete chemistry of role and design and winning (and peripherally, a specific player's statistics) is directly influenced by the system the team uses. Stats are NOT the story in basketball. In the NBA almost every player could compile stats on teams that do not win. The worst teams always have a "best" player, and they compile decent stats if you do not take won-loss record into consideration.
    Dumars (and I always hated the Pistons) was what a basketball player at the highest level should be: great defender, great shooter, great scorer, great team mate, who perfectly fit what his team needed from him to succeed. I believe that it is true that when he came out of college, he was (about) the fourth highest scoring player in NCAA history - and he ended up being known for his defense on a World Championship team.
    I am buying and trading for RC's of Wilt Chamberlain, George Mikan, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Bob Cousy!
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  • Bosox1976Bosox1976 Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭✭✭
    His defense was also topnotch - MJ has always said that Dumars was the best defender he ever matched up against. Dumars earned his spot in Springfield IMHO.
    Mike
    Bosox1976
  • Kid4hof03Kid4hof03 Posts: 1,865 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No offense to anyone, but if you watched alot of NBA action in the late 80's early 90's you know that Joe Dumars is a hall of famer. Greg's comments are spot on, the basketball and football hall of fame's are much less about stats than the baseball one is.

    Dumars was a complete player. In basketball, great players will sacrifice certain stats for the sake of the team. That is where players like Dantley get killed, he did one thing and that was it. He scored, played no defense, didn't pass the ball and was not liked by his coaches or teammates.

    I personally think the basketball hall of fame is pretty well-rounded.

    Abe
    Collecting anything and everything relating to Roger Staubach
  • GDM67GDM67 Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭✭
    This is a no-brainer, for me. He's clearly a Hall of Famer.

    This is ironic. I was kinda, sorta watching the Shock's win today and seeing Bill and Rickey Horn reminded me of just how much fun that team was and how those of us who loved them just relished the hate they inspired image

    I'd be more than happy to see AD and Gilmore in, as well. I think they're both very deserving.
    My Sets
  • GOODLIEUGOODLIEU Posts: 629 ✭✭
    I agree that Dumars is definitely worthy of his induction into the Hall Of Fame. With that said I am surprised that they have not gotten around to looking seriously at Dennis (DJ) Johnson. His career which started in 1976 (14 Yrs) he averaged in the Reg. season: Points 14.1,Assist 5.0,Rebounds 3.9 and Steals 1477 (Dumars 902). While playing great "D" and kicking up his production in the Playoffs. Winning Championships with Seattle and Boston. As far as Dantley goes the best comparison to him currently in the hall is Alex English ( Both consistent big time scorers for their careers). Finally as noted here I also hope they finally put the A Train (Artis Gilmore) in the Hall and honor his contributions in the ABA as one of its major stars.
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  • 80sJunkie80sJunkie Posts: 1,314
    <<The NBA puts championships above individual stats obviously.>>

    I agree I dont think dumars #s were strong enough to make it. The titles helped push him in
  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 8,753 ✭✭
    Joe Dumars was the consummate gentleman to the game of NBA Basketball....he played for many great teams and against many great players....his skills on the court and as a team leader exemplified the way the game should be represented [insert backhanded slap at today's selfish players]....stats or not, his record speaks for itself....extra points for tolerating Isiah, Bill Laimbeer, Rick Mahorn, Dennis Rodman, sheesh if there were Patience HOF, he'd have a wing to himself!
  • TheCARDKidTheCARDKid Posts: 1,496 ✭
    Any thoughts on Chris Mullin going to the Hall of Fame?

    His career reminds me of Don Mattingly. Awesome player in his prime.... then he just kind of peeters out.

    Dantley should have been in a long time ago. How do you not get in the Hall of Fame with 23,000 points? Every guy ahead of him is a lock (ex Gilmore)

    Career Point Leaders

    Every guy down to David Robinson at #31 is a lock.
  • GDM67GDM67 Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>With that said I am surprised that they have not gotten around to looking seriously at Dennis (DJ) Johnson. His career which started in 1976 (14 Yrs) he averaged in the Reg. season: Points 14.1,Assist 5.0,Rebounds 3.9 and Steals 1477 (Dumars 902). While playing great "D" and kicking up his production in the Playoffs. Winning Championships with Seattle and Boston. >>

    Seconded. And that's from someone who remembers him on the other end of that Bird steal in '87. His stats are very solid, and, additionally, I think when you're a mainstay of a multi-championship team, you deserve at least a long look, irrespective of your stats.
    My Sets
  • madGreekmadGreek Posts: 36
    The nba isn't what it used to be...but one thing for sure is Dumars is a HOF'er. Team player with great stats that Jordan stated was the toughest defender for him. Also if your going on pts per game; not that this man should be anyway exempt..he's one of the greatest...and averaged 18 something. Magic. amazing everything...I think dumars is a smaller version of Magic in every way from stats rings size but not team player and not much on any other level or play. I love them both.
    Jose Canseco 100 count of donruss rc's wanted for 100 bucks.
  • CourvoisierCourvoisier Posts: 181
    Dumars was pimpin back then. Defense was his thing. Detriot wouldn't have the rings without him. Isiah couldn't have done it without him. So, yes, he deserved the HOF. Dumars was Isiah's Pippen.
    Nothing smoother than listening to Bob James and sipping on a glass of vintage Courvoisier! It's PIMPnificent!
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  • unishipuniship Posts: 496 ✭✭
    Joes Dumars is a 100% legitimate, bona-fide, DEFINITE Hall of Famer - and for all you basketball purists out there, you know exactly what I mean.
  • RemynSkylerRemynSkyler Posts: 234


    << <i>Joes Dumars is a 100% legitimate, bona-fide, DEFINITE Hall of Famer - and for all you basketball purists out there, you know exactly what I mean. >>



    Amen to that Brother! The NBA is a joke now compared to the mid 80's-early 90's.
    1981-82 Topps Basketball PSA 9 or 10
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    1981 Topps Los Angeles Dodgers PSA 9 or 10
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    1986 Topps Los Angeles Dodgers PSA 9 or 10
    1975 Topps Wacky Packages Series 15 PSA 9 or 10
  • ndleondleo Posts: 4,144 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Plus Dumars was a great defensive player.

    It will be interesting to see if Rodman makes it in. He does deserve it, but his attitude will probably keep him out. One of the best defensive players and rebounders of his era and was a key player on 5 championship teams.

    I think DJ gets hurt because so many Celtics from that era are in - Bird, McHale, Parish, Walton.
    Mike
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,607 ✭✭✭✭
    The sports guy wrote an article on espn.com about how Dumars didn't deserve enshrinement, and Dantley does, as I mentioned earlier. Goes beyond that though. I agree with just about everything he has to say. A real good read:

    Sports Guy
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭


    << <i>The sports guy wrote an article on espn.com about how Dumars didn't deserve enshrinement, and Dantley does, as I mentioned earlier. Goes beyond that though. I agree with just about everything he has to say. A real good read:

    Sports Guy >>





    That's a good article, although I couldn't help but laugh when Simmons begins his article by arguing that All-Star balloting is a fraudulent excercise, then goes on to use All-Star selections as a basis for HOF worthiness.

    Were it up to me Dantley, King, DJ and especially Sidney Moncreif would be NO BRAINERS. So I guess it's just a difference in how you perceive the hall. Personally, I think character issues should play a huge role in determining who gets elected, and I'd basically be willing to put in anyone who had a distinguished career. I figure HOF's are for the fans, and the more players you put in the greater the number of fans that can come and teach their daughters and sons about their favorite players. What fun would Cooperstown be if it only had 30 players or so in it? I think it would suck, personally, as one of the things I really liked about it when I went there was being able to see the displays of all the players I'd never learned much about.

    Anyway, I'm happy for Joe D (whom I greatly admire, being a Detroiter) and glad he got in. I can appreciate Simmons' argument, but I guess I'm just one of those people who thinks that HOF's work better when they're more inclusive than exclusive.
  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 8,753 ✭✭
    three simple words: Hall Of Fame

    men who achieved fame while competing in a sport

    it is not called Hall Of Best Players Ever

    and yes, some others players mentioned here do belong

    image
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