Scott congratulations! That is an amazing accomplishment, how long did it take you?
My daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 2 (2003). My son was diagnosed with Type 1 when he was 17 on December 31, 2009. We were stunned that another child of ours had been diagnosed. Please, if you don't have a favorite charity, consider giving to the JDRF (Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation)
When searching for T206's on ebay, I use "Pre 1942" and "Original" as the search criteria, yet there are 1,181 cards listed from 2009...I really hate that
My daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 2 (2003). My son was diagnosed with Type 1 when he was 17 on December 31, 2009. We were stunned that another child of ours had been diagnosed. Please, if you don't have a favorite charity, consider giving to the JDRF (Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation)
<< <i>When searching for T206's on ebay, I use "Pre 1942" and "Original" as the search criteria, yet there are 1,181 cards listed from 2009...I really hate that >>
The "-Topps" is a good suggestion, I will give that a try
My daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 2 (2003). My son was diagnosed with Type 1 when he was 17 on December 31, 2009. We were stunned that another child of ours had been diagnosed. Please, if you don't have a favorite charity, consider giving to the JDRF (Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation)
With the addition of the 4 cards pictured below I've finished my version of The Monster. I wont say "I tamed The Monster" or "I completed the set" because I didn't but I did manage to get to 518 of 524. I'll be on the lookout for the Demmitt and O'Hara and at this point I think I'll probably try to pick them up but who knows when so I'll call it finished at this point.
I thought it would be interesting to share some "stats" on my "set":
Backs
1 brown hindu 1 cycle 460 1 cycle 350 2 tolstoi 1 EPDG 3 sovereign 460 12 sovereign 350 4 soverign 150 30 old mill (24 of the 48 Southern Leaguers) 1 ab 350 no frame (SGC 80) 2 sc 150 overprint 2 sc 350-460 overprint 1 sc 350-460 fac 42 34 sc 150 f 30 10 sc 150 f 25 10 sc 350 f 25 4 sc 350 -460 f 25 10 sc 350 -460 f 30 71 sc 350 f 30 70 piedmont 150 f 25 30 piedmont 350-460 f 25 198 piedmont 350 f 25 20 polar bear
It would be impossible to say thank you to all of the people that I bought cards from and helped me in other ways so I'll offer a blanket one here. I sincerely appreciate everyone that I bought a card from, made a trade with or helped out with information on this great set.
A special thanks to frequent contributer to this post Steve Yawitz who always offered kind words and cards along the way. Also to RayB who started this thread which was the inspiration for my undertaking.
Best wishes for a healthy, prosperous and safe 2010!
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
As for what's next. I'm 6 cards in to an E96 caramel set. It's only 30 cards but they don't come up all that often so it will take some time. uch cheaper too! I also have a PSA 5-6 55 Topps set that I need a Clemente and a 52 Bowman mixed raw and graded set that I need the Mantle and a common or two that I'd like to finish.
It took me about 2 and a half years to complete. One thing that I did not do that I wish I had was to keep track of what I paid for each card so I don't have a real solid idea of what it cost to complete but I'd guess in the neighborhood of 20K.
Scott - Its been a long time since I visited here; but wanted to say congratulations for a herculean effort. A amazing achievement. I'm glad that the thread was an inspiration and motivation because there is always a place for the "collector grade" collector. RayB
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
you got me hooked on t 206 cards beacuse of this thread to.
thanks
Fred
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
i have some i got a while back i haven't posted yet i'll try to get them up tonight
Fred
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
Found this one raw at a local antique store. This NY version seems tougher than the Boston version. Maybe more Boston's are submitted since they are more valuable. Last time I looked pop reports had more Boston's graded. But been a while since I checked.
Hi. I am new to this thread, but not new to T206 collecting. I have assembled an entire set of T206 cards (missing only 9 including top 3) over the years which I am very proud of. Not a single card has a crease. I have recently purchased some graded at the PSA 4 level, but the vast majority (like 95%) are ungraded. Not a single card in my collection has a crease, so I am assuming that they will grade at least PSA 3 and many above that level. I intend to start getting these cards graded starting with the HOF set. My first journey into grading last month was interesting. Of five cards submitted I received two PSA 4, Two PSA 5 and one "evidence of trimming". That surprised me because I have had this card in my collection for some time and expected it to grade out. I am not sure what to do about this since the card is worth a few hundred dollars. I know that PSA is very reluctant (if at all ) to give comments so it leaves me in a lurch. For now I intend to send in about 5 to 10 cards a month and try to see if there is some sort of pattern in grading standards. PSA did come up with one very nice surprise; my Johnny Evers w/ bat CHICAGO (El Prince back) got the highest rating of PSA 5. I guess you got to take the good with the bad. Any advise would be welcomed as to how best to maximize the submission and grading process.
P.S. For those who might be wondering what has taken me so long to start the grading process with these "glorious" cards, I will share with you that I have spent the last few years assembling cards from the 50's as well as some rookie sets which I have been getting graded successfully.
Back in the 1970s when plastic sheets originally became prevalent, one problem with T206s was that many were oversized (and therefore would not fit in the sheet pockets). Many collectors, myself included , trimmed their cards only to get them to fit in the pages. I did it with an Addie Joss portrait. Others did it to make the card look better than it was (i.e., to sharpen the corners).
The main thing to look for is a "wavy" look to one or more of the edges. I know in my case, I used an x-acto knife and a ruler. The ruler would usually slip, creating a not-so-straight edge. Another thing to look for is a so-called "bat ear" corner, where the corner of the card flares out from the rest of the edge.
I appreciate the advice about identifying cards that have been trimmed. I intend to look more carefully at my cards before I send them to PSA. No need to get frustrated waiting for them to come back only to learn they will not meet the PSA standard.
Feel stupid asking this, so please don't judge me; I usually can figure this stuff out ..................................how do you get a picture to post with your message? I would like to share some of my graded cards with other T- 206 collectors
<< <i>Feel stupid asking this, so please don't judge me; I usually can figure this stuff out ..................................how do you get a picture to post with your message? I would like to share some of my graded cards with other T- 206 collectors >>
I upload all my images to imageshack, which is an image hosting site. I copy the web address (URL) for the image, then when replying to a thread here I click the fourth button from the left up at the top of the reply window (it looks like a little picture frame). This will open up a new window asking you to paste the image URL. I do that, click OK, and there you have it.
I have not read this thread's entire history so I don't know if someone has already mentioned this or not but there's a pre-sale on Amazon.com for a book on the T-206 set that will be released in June.
The book sounds pretty interesting, is fairly big in size (224 pgs), and will have lots of color images from cards in the set.
You can save a third off the cover price with the pre-order and get free shipping too! Click on the pic to see the description:
Thanks Steve. I saw your T206 HOF set on the registry. Very impressive. I love the Matty White cap, Young Glove shows and Young Port. Awesome eye appeal on those. I love the big borders on the Matty white cap. You can find some real gems in the VG-EX grade.
<< <i>Thanks Steve. I saw your T206 HOF set on the registry. Very impressive. I love the Matty White cap, Young Glove shows and Young Port. Awesome eye appeal on those. I love the big borders on the Matty white cap. You can find some real gems in the VG-EX grade. >>
Thanks ToneD!
PSA 4 is my favorite grade for T206s (if you coudn't tell ).....no creases, with just a bit of natural wear. I'm concentrating on centering and registration (focus) with my set. You see a lot of T206s that are out of focus, off-center or diamond-cut; I avoid those like the plague.
Mailday and I broke the 10 percent mark on the registry. I also have 16 at PSA and 20 cards in SGC, BVG, GAI so I am actually +15%. At this rate, I will have the monster conquered (minus 4) by the year 2024. (My jubilation just turned to depression after doing the math)
Piedmonts VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 1909-1911 T206 PIEDMONT TIM JORDAN BROOKLYN, PORTRAIT Card US GOOD 2 1909-1911 T206 PIEDMONT BILL MALARKEY Card US GOOD 2 1909-1911 T206 PIEDMONT HARRY GASPER Card US FAIR 1.5 1909-1911 T206 PIEDMONT CHARLEY CARR Card US FAIR 1.5 1909-1911 T206 PIEDMONT RUBE KROH Card US POOR 1 1909-1911 T206 PIEDMONT HANS LOBERT Card US POOR 1 1909-1911 T206 PIEDMONT SHERRY MAGEE PORTRAIT Card US POOR 1 1909-1911 T206 PIEDMONT NAP RUCKER PORTRAIT Card US N5: ALTERED STOCK 1909-1911 T206 PIEDMONT HUNKY SHAW PROVIDENCE Card US
Sweet Caps VERY GOOD 3 1909-1911 T206 SWEET CAPORAL JOHN GANZEL Card US GOOD+ 2.5 1909-1911 T206 SWEET CAPORAL DOC CRANDALL WITH CAP Card US VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 MC 1909-1911 T206 SWEET CAPORAL HOOKS WILTSE PORTRAIT, WITH CAP Card US POOR 1 1909-1911 T206 SWEET CAPORAL JOE DOYLE N.Y. HANDS ABOVE HEAD Card US
Polar Bears GOOD+ 2.5 1909-1911 T206 POLAR BEAR JACK HAYDEN Card US POOR 1 1909-1911 T206 POLAR BEAR HAL CHASE PORTRAIT-BLUE Card US
Old Mills VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 1909-1911 T206 OLD MILL ADMIRAL SCHLEI PORTRAIT Card US POOR 1 1909-1911 T206 OLD MILL JACK DUNN BALTIMORE Card US
Sovereigns VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 1909-1911 T206 SOVEREIGN RED MURRAY PORTRAIT Card US VERY GOOD 3 1909-1911 T206 SOVEREIGN FIELDER JONES CHI., PORTRAIT Card US GOOD 2 1909-1911 T206 SOVEREIGN GEORGE MERRITT Card US
EPDGs POOR 1 1909-1911 T206 EL PRINC.DE GALES HARRY KRAUSE PORTRAIT Card US
In total: Three - 4s; Two - 3s; Two - 2.5s; One - 4MC; Three - 2s; Two - 1.5s; Seven - 1s; One Altered Stock.
I got these cards at a few card shows raw by going through sellers' "cheap" piles of T206s. I would pick out the five or six that I thought were possible 2s and make an offer. So getting a total of 7 cards better than PSA2 has me very happy. It all balances out I guess because none of the PSA1s were "bad" 1s either and I thought I would get maybe 3 to 4 PSA1s.
Here is a sampling of some of the recently graded. I think I was pretty fortunate on quite a few of them to get the grades I did. The Krause was only the second EPDG graded, at least since they started labeling the T206 with the backs.
Comments
My daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 2 (2003). My son was diagnosed with Type 1 when he was 17 on December 31, 2009. We were stunned that another child of ours had been diagnosed. Please, if you don't have a favorite charity, consider giving to the JDRF (Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation)
JDRF Donation
My daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 2 (2003). My son was diagnosed with Type 1 when he was 17 on December 31, 2009. We were stunned that another child of ours had been diagnosed. Please, if you don't have a favorite charity, consider giving to the JDRF (Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation)
JDRF Donation
<< <i>When searching for T206's on ebay, I use "Pre 1942" and "Original" as the search criteria, yet there are 1,181 cards listed from 2009...I really hate that >>
Collecting: Topps 1952-79, Bowman 1952-55, OPC 1965-71, and Pre-War White Sox cards
My daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 2 (2003). My son was diagnosed with Type 1 when he was 17 on December 31, 2009. We were stunned that another child of ours had been diagnosed. Please, if you don't have a favorite charity, consider giving to the JDRF (Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation)
JDRF Donation
I thought it would be interesting to share some "stats" on my "set":
Backs
1 brown hindu
1 cycle 460
1 cycle 350
2 tolstoi
1 EPDG
3 sovereign 460
12 sovereign 350
4 soverign 150
30 old mill (24 of the 48 Southern Leaguers)
1 ab 350 no frame (SGC 80)
2 sc 150 overprint
2 sc 350-460 overprint
1 sc 350-460 fac 42
34 sc 150 f 30
10 sc 150 f 25
10 sc 350 f 25
4 sc 350 -460 f 25
10 sc 350 -460 f 30
71 sc 350 f 30
70 piedmont 150 f 25
30 piedmont 350-460 f 25
198 piedmont 350 f 25
20 polar bear
Grades
28 PSA 1
77 PSA 2
51 PSA 3
11 PSA 4
1 PSA 5
19 SGC 10
58 SGC 20
105 SGC 30
142 SGC 40
24 SGC 50
1 SGC 60
1 SGC 80
It would be impossible to say thank you to all of the people that I bought cards from and helped me in other ways so I'll offer a blanket one here. I sincerely appreciate everyone that I bought a card from, made a trade with or helped out with information on this great set.
A special thanks to frequent contributer to this post Steve Yawitz who always offered kind words and cards along the way. Also to RayB who started this thread which was the inspiration for my undertaking.
Best wishes for a healthy, prosperous and safe 2010!
Regards,
Scott
Text
whats next?
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
Simsbury Taverneers
My PSA Sets
As for what's next. I'm 6 cards in to an E96 caramel set. It's only 30 cards but they don't come up all that often so it will take some time. uch cheaper too! I also have a PSA 5-6 55 Topps set that I need a Clemente and a 52 Bowman mixed raw and graded set that I need the Mantle and a common or two that I'd like to finish.
It took me about 2 and a half years to complete. One thing that I did not do that I wish I had was to keep track of what I paid for each card so I don't have a real solid idea of what it cost to complete but I'd guess in the neighborhood of 20K.
Best,
Scott
<< <i>C'mon, guys...surely someone else is buying T206's these days?!?! >>
My first time showing off on this thread - so I'll post some of the cards that I've picked up in the last few months for my White Sox set...
Collecting: Topps 1952-79, Bowman 1952-55, OPC 1965-71, and Pre-War White Sox cards
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
This is my most recent purchase -- it was my birthday present to myself!
A amazing achievement.
I'm glad that the thread was an inspiration and motivation because there is always a place for the "collector grade" collector.
RayB
whats up?
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
thanks
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
i need one, great looking card fkw
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
My current WTB list is:
Jerry Downs T206 different backs - I have AB, Tol, Cyl, SC, Ped.
Cleveland players w/ diff. (rare) backs...
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
<< <i>i have some i got a while back i haven't posted yet i'll try to get them up tonight >>
say are they the ones i sold you?
looking for low grade t205's psa 1-2
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
Collecting: Topps 1952-79, Bowman 1952-55, OPC 1965-71, and Pre-War White Sox cards
looking for low grade t205's psa 1-2
P.S. For those who might be wondering what has taken me so long to start the grading process with these "glorious" cards, I will share with you that I have spent the last few years assembling cards from the 50's as well as some rookie sets which I have been getting graded successfully.
One thing about T206s and trimming:
Back in the 1970s when plastic sheets originally became prevalent, one problem with T206s was that many were oversized (and therefore would not fit in the sheet pockets). Many collectors, myself included , trimmed their cards only to get them to fit in the pages. I did it with an Addie Joss portrait. Others did it to make the card look better than it was (i.e., to sharpen the corners).
The main thing to look for is a "wavy" look to one or more of the edges. I know in my case, I used an x-acto knife and a ruler. The ruler would usually slip, creating a not-so-straight edge. Another thing to look for is a so-called "bat ear" corner, where the corner of the card flares out from the rest of the edge.
Good luck in your efforts, and welcome!
Steve
<< <i>Color variation collectors, check out this attractive one.....
>>
Just awesome. Love the orange portrait Cobb variations! Such a tough
card to pickup, too.
(I realize that was posted back in January but had to comment )
<< <i>Feel stupid asking this, so please don't judge me; I usually can figure this stuff out ..................................how do you get a picture to post with your message? I would like to share some of my graded cards with other T- 206 collectors >>
I upload all my images to imageshack, which is an image hosting site. I copy the web
address (URL) for the image, then when replying to a thread here I click the fourth button
from the left up at the top of the reply window (it looks like a little picture frame). This will
open up a new window asking you to paste the image URL. I do that, click OK, and there
you have it.
Steve
The book sounds pretty interesting, is fairly big in size (224 pgs), and will have lots of color images from cards in the set.
You can save a third off the cover price with the pre-order and get free shipping too! Click on the pic to see the description:
hmmm...link as pic idea did not work...
<< <i>Beauty ToneD
Steve >>
Thanks Steve. I saw your T206 HOF set on the registry. Very impressive. I love the Matty White cap, Young Glove shows and Young Port. Awesome eye appeal on those. I love the big borders on the Matty white cap. You can find some real gems in the VG-EX grade.
Collecting: Topps 1952-79, Bowman 1952-55, OPC 1965-71, and Pre-War White Sox cards
<< <i>Thanks Steve. I saw your T206 HOF set on the registry. Very impressive. I love the Matty White cap, Young Glove shows and Young Port. Awesome eye appeal on those. I love the big borders on the Matty white cap. You can find some real gems in the VG-EX grade. >>
Thanks ToneD!
PSA 4 is my favorite grade for T206s (if you coudn't tell ).....no creases, with just a bit of natural wear. I'm concentrating on centering and registration (focus) with my set. You see a lot of T206s that are out of focus, off-center or diamond-cut; I avoid those like the plague.
PurduePete:
Very nice Walsh
Steve
Horizontals, anyone?
And don't worry, The Monster is definitely a marathon, not a sprint
Steve
Piedmonts
VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 1909-1911 T206 PIEDMONT TIM JORDAN BROOKLYN, PORTRAIT Card US
GOOD 2 1909-1911 T206 PIEDMONT BILL MALARKEY Card US
GOOD 2 1909-1911 T206 PIEDMONT HARRY GASPER Card US
FAIR 1.5 1909-1911 T206 PIEDMONT CHARLEY CARR Card US
FAIR 1.5 1909-1911 T206 PIEDMONT RUBE KROH Card US
POOR 1 1909-1911 T206 PIEDMONT HANS LOBERT Card US
POOR 1 1909-1911 T206 PIEDMONT SHERRY MAGEE PORTRAIT Card US
POOR 1 1909-1911 T206 PIEDMONT NAP RUCKER PORTRAIT Card US
N5: ALTERED STOCK 1909-1911 T206 PIEDMONT HUNKY SHAW PROVIDENCE Card US
Sweet Caps
VERY GOOD 3 1909-1911 T206 SWEET CAPORAL JOHN GANZEL Card US
GOOD+ 2.5 1909-1911 T206 SWEET CAPORAL DOC CRANDALL WITH CAP Card US
VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 MC 1909-1911 T206 SWEET CAPORAL HOOKS WILTSE PORTRAIT, WITH CAP Card US
POOR 1 1909-1911 T206 SWEET CAPORAL JOE DOYLE N.Y. HANDS ABOVE HEAD Card US
Polar Bears
GOOD+ 2.5 1909-1911 T206 POLAR BEAR JACK HAYDEN Card US
POOR 1 1909-1911 T206 POLAR BEAR HAL CHASE PORTRAIT-BLUE Card US
Old Mills
VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 1909-1911 T206 OLD MILL ADMIRAL SCHLEI PORTRAIT Card US
POOR 1 1909-1911 T206 OLD MILL JACK DUNN BALTIMORE Card US
Sovereigns
VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 1909-1911 T206 SOVEREIGN RED MURRAY PORTRAIT Card US
VERY GOOD 3 1909-1911 T206 SOVEREIGN FIELDER JONES CHI., PORTRAIT Card US
GOOD 2 1909-1911 T206 SOVEREIGN GEORGE MERRITT Card US
EPDGs
POOR 1 1909-1911 T206 EL PRINC.DE GALES HARRY KRAUSE PORTRAIT Card US
In total: Three - 4s; Two - 3s; Two - 2.5s; One - 4MC; Three - 2s; Two - 1.5s; Seven - 1s; One Altered Stock.
I got these cards at a few card shows raw by going through sellers' "cheap" piles of T206s. I would pick out the five or six that I thought were possible 2s and make an offer. So getting a total of 7 cards better than PSA2 has me very happy. It all balances out I guess because none of the PSA1s were "bad" 1s either and I thought I would get maybe 3 to 4 PSA1s.
I'll post pics when I get the cards.
looking for low grade t205's psa 1-2
Here is a sampling of some of the recently graded. I think I was pretty fortunate on quite a few of them to get the grades I did. The Krause was only the second EPDG graded, at least since they started labeling the T206 with the backs.