Dealer bashing?

showmethepenneys

I just cant get over how much hate there is for dealers, if it wasent for dealers,you would have no coins to buy, and thus no hobby. Dealers live off your passion and try to provide high quality service.
Sure there are a few bad seeds,wedd them out and move on.
Having a good deaker with tons of knoweldge is very handy.I like my dealer, he has a great inventory,good prices, and he is honest.
I would appricate it you all would just take a minute and think about life without dealers, anyone can sell a coin, but olny a dealer has the vast knoweldge to insure your walet and investment isnt rapped!Thank you.

Bear

Well said.

Bruceswar

I disagree that only a dealer has vast knowledge. Many collectors do as well. Otherwise I agree with you.

lasvegasteddy

i disagree with the reference in..."without dealers we'd have no coins to buy".that is what mint's produce and collectors believe it or not could survive without them as for their products too.i hope future generations see a task force by the "BBB" set-up shop on them.did i earn my brownie point here or not?

curly

If there is a coin dealer's forum somewhere, I'd sure like to see it. That way we could find out how precious we are.

tsacch

<< <i> try to provide high quality service. >>



TRY being the norm.....not deliver.

I went to Florida twice in the last couple weeks, spent some time looking at a dealers coins. First time he wouldnt sell the only good ones in his case. Next time...none were for sale, just display. I think he sniffed the fact that I knew what I was talking about and wouldnt sell to me cause he would rather RIP the unknowing out of thier hard earned cash.

The local guy to me is in a mall in a "collectable store" More football crap and stuffed beanie babies than coins, but it the closest thing I have. His buy offers are absolutely ridiculous, he always puts down the coins I have and his prices are at least a grade, usually two out of hand.

dorkkarl

i don't think it's hatred. i think it's IGNORANCE

there's alot of ignorant folks posting on this forum . . . . .

K S

PerryHall

When you see a forum member and dealer like Derek2100 bragging about buying a Liberty $10 gold coin from a less than knowledgable seller for way below melt ($180), it's hard not to be distrustful of coin dealers. When it comes to coin dealers, most are about as trustworth as most used car dealers. This does NOT apply to most of the dealers who share their time and knowledge on these boards (Laura, Mark, Julian, Andy, etc).

Leiana

I have nothing against dealers in general.

A lot of my friends here are dealers.

My local dealer, however, knowingly sells cleaned, whizzed junk for sheet.

How am I supposed to like that?

-Amanda

dorkkarl

<< <i>My local dealer, however, knowingly sells cleaned, whizzed junk for sheet. >>

maybe he's not a dealer. maybe he's simply a crook. in fact, that's what i'd bet

K S

Leiana

<< <i>

<< <i>My local dealer, however, knowingly sells cleaned, whizzed junk for sheet. >>

maybe he's not a dealer. maybe he's simply a crook. in fact, that's what i'd bet

K S >>



Aww come on now, he has other stuff, like Statehood Quarters and Gold Buffaloes.

-Amanda

TwoSides2aCoin

When I see the hate spewed out on the boards, I just keep telling myself....

Those who deserve love the least are the ones who need it the most.
Imagine how the family that lives with HIM/HER feels.

The dealer only has to tolertate them 'til the door hits 'em in the A$$ as they leave his shop.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>When you see a forum member and dealer like Derek2100 bragging about buying a Liberty $10 gold coin from a less than knowledgable seller for way below melt ($180), it's hard not to be distrustful of coin dealers. When it comes to coin dealers, most are about as trustworth as most used car dealers. This does NOT apply to most of the dealers who share their time and knowledge on these boards (Laura, Mark, Julian, Andy, etc). >>



So let me get this straight, you think Derek2100 is a real person and not some goofy Alt ID?

BlindedByEgo

<< <i>I would appricate it you all would just take a minute and think about life without dealers, anyone can sell a coin, but olny a dealer has the vast knoweldge to insure your walet and investment isnt rapped!Thank you. >>





Dealer bashing is easy - there are so many bad ones. So's lawyer bashing... Like lawyers, the good ones are worth holding onto.

Flyfishguy

As a silent observer and occasional poster, I too have noticed a lot of dealer bashing here. I have been a full time dealer for two years now, after having been a vest pocket dealer for several years back in the early-mid 1990's. I never intended to become a dealer again, but after my friend was murdered in his coin shop, the pieces just fell into place (see www.allgoodcoin.com).

I have to agree that a lot (maybe most) dealers go to the same school as "used car salesmen". But then that is not fair, as I know some very honest car salesmen...

I see and meet many dealers that I feel are thieves. These people I just do not do business with. One dealer that I thought was a pretty honest guy told me a story recently how he KNOWINGLY got a 1955/55 Lincoln from a gal for only 2 cents in a group of Wheats. He was very proud of that. When I find someone that I believe is a thief, I choose to no longer do business with him or her. I have a handful of dealers that I deal with that I would feel comfortable having them watch my store.

I spend a lot of time with kids in the store. I will show them coins and tell them the history of certain coins that make their eyes light up. I get invited to local schools for show and tell. This is fun for me, fun for them and we have developed several YN's that now come into the store with mom & dad.

When I was 9-12 years old and visited the only coin shop in Santa Barbara, I remember not being treated well. But like a kid that loves his abusive father, I kept going back. I look back now and can see that every time I went in there with a couple of dollars, he ripped me off. Because of that, I treat kids with more patience than many adults. We also GIVE kids old blue Whitman "penny" folders for free with a handful of Wheat cents to get them started.

Are their bad dealers out there? Yes. But their are also a lot of good dealers. I think it would be time well spent to recognize the good ones and ignore the bad ones. As a matter of fact, I propose that a thread be started with the title, "Recognize a Good Coin Dealer" and let's hear some good things.
Just my humble observation.

Wes Chormicle

RedTiger

There is plenty of bashing to go around: dealer bashing, collector bashing, bashing of grading services, bashing of the ANA, bashing of Ebay, Heritage, Teletrade, and every other auction firm, bashing of mom, apple pie and Chevrolet . It is one big bash zone. It is the nature of most Internet forums. The bad news, the controversial, the unseemly posts get the replies. People like the ugly side, they like arguments and fights. The informative, the interesting, the good stories die after five replies (aside from pity posts).

MrEureka

just cant get over how much hate there is for dealers

With the exception of only a few forum members, I don't see any general hatred of dealers. What I do see is a common hatred of specific dealers and disgust with specific business practices.

LanLord

It's kinda like hate for car salesmen. Until recently, unless you dealt with a car salesman, you couldn't get a car. But just because that was the only way to get the car, didn't mean people needed to like it! That's why the internet is so important in many areas.

MrEureka

So let me get this straight, you think Derek2100 is a real person and not some goofy Alt ID?

CCU - It's nice to know someone wasn't on to you!

keets

Sure there are a few bad seeds,wedd them out and move on.

so you're saying the key to establishing a successful dealer relationship is to marry one?? that would work well for someone like Lieana but for most of us the pickin' is gonna be thin unless Ms. Karstedt is single, and i doubt that. oops, almost forgot the fetching Jade girl, Tassa!!!

it is a novel concept, though.

CoinRaritiesOnline

<< <i>As a silent observer and occasional poster, I too have noticed a lot of dealer bashing here. I have been a full time dealer for two years now, after having been a vest pocket dealer for several years back in the early-mid 1990's. I never intended to become a dealer again, but after my friend was murdered in his coin shop, the pieces just fell into place (see www.allgoodcoin.com). I have to agree that a lot (maybe most) dealers go to the same school as "used car salesmen". But then that is not fair, as I know some very honest car salesmen... I see and meet many dealers that I feel are thieves. These people I just do not do business with. One dealer that I thought was a pretty honest guy told me a story recently how he KNOWINGLY got a 1955/55 Lincoln from a gal for only 2 cents in a group of Wheats. He was very proud of that. When I find someone that I believe is a thief, I choose to no longer do business with him or her. I have a handful of dealers that I deal with that I would feel comfortable having them watch my store. I spend a lot of time with kids in the store. I will show them coins and tell them the history of certain coins that make their eyes light up. I get invited to local schools for show and tell. This is fun for me, fun for them and we have developed several YN's that now come into the store with mom & dad. When I was 9-12 years old and visited the only coin shop in Santa Barbara, I remember not being treated well. But like a kid that loves his abusive father, I kept going back. I look back now and can see that every time I went in there with a couple of dollars, he ripped me off. Because of that, I treat kids with more patience than many adults. We also GIVE kids old blue Whitman "penny" folders for free with a handful of Wheat cents to get them started. Are their bad dealers out there? Yes. But their are also a lot of good dealers. I think it would be time well spent to recognize the good ones and ignore the bad ones. As a matter of fact, I propose that a thread be started with the title, "Recognize a Good Coin Dealer" and let's hear some good things. Just my humble observation. Wes Chormicle >>



Wow -- terrific story!

As a full-time dealer myself, some of the most honorable, honest, trustworthy people I've ever met have been coin dealers. Some are "household names"; some you may have never heard of.

Sure there are jerks and crooks in this business. It is my theory that the jerks and the crooks are the ones most people remember. The dealer who gives someone's 8 year old daughter a buffalo nickel or a proof set on the bourse floor of a show may or may not be remembered, but the guy who tries to cheat you, or is rude, or ignores you when you ask to look at a coin -- those people will likely be remembered for years.


The honest ones just out trying to make a living are often like wallpaper -- people just assume that is the way it ought to be. Perhaps that is for the best.

I know I expect to be treated with honesty and integrity when dealing with others. Nearly all the time -- that is what I receive. Every once in a while, I do not. Those are the people I remember as well, I guess.

Bear

Top notch dealers earn their excellant reputation

thru years of good, constant and honorable service

to collectors.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>So let me get this straight, you think Derek2100 is a real person and not some goofy Alt ID?

CCU - It's nice to know someone wasn't on to you! >>



I cannot conceive of having enough free time to maintain 2 personae in a chatroom. Frankly, I can't conceive of having time for 1.

PerryHall

<< <i>

<< <i>When you see a forum member and dealer like Derek2100 bragging about buying a Liberty $10 gold coin from a less than knowledgable seller for way below melt ($180), it's hard not to be distrustful of coin dealers. When it comes to coin dealers, most are about as trustworth as most used car dealers. This does NOT apply to most of the dealers who share their time and knowledge on these boards (Laura, Mark, Julian, Andy, etc). >>



So let me get this straight, you think Derek2100 is a real person and not some goofy Alt ID? >>



I don't know but there are plenty of dealers who could be his clone.

keets

there seems to be a recent preponderance of members who don't enable their profile or PM function, not a behavior in itself which causes suspicion, but coupled with their replies, well, draw your own conclusion. i assume troll as alternate ID's.

thebeav

<< <i>i don't think it's hatred. i think it's IGNORANCE

there's alot of ignorant folks posting on this forum . . . . .

K S >>



While I agree with part two of this comment, I think jealousy is the reason for dealer bashing.
Many of you only WISH that you did something for a living that you enjoyed.....

notwilight

<< <i>i don't think it's hatred. i think it's IGNORANCE there's alot of ignorant folks posting on this forum . . . . . K S >>



Agreed. Most people don't realize how much markup it takes to make a business successful. The standard retail markup is 100% on shirts, pots and pans, lawnmowers, etc. Some businesses have a thinner markup such as new cars. But wenever the buyer has an idea of how much a dealer paid for something they want to buy it for the same price...or if they know how much a dealer will sell something for, they want to sell it to him for the same price.
And when the dealer refuses it makes them angry. That's why so many used car salesmen, pawn shop brokers, etc have resorted to lying about what things are worth--it makes people less angry.
But then when I hear stories like the guy who gave a kid $50 for a mapleleaf, I understand why some dealers give everyone a bad name...
--Jerry

Russ

<< <i>I would appricate it you all would just take a minute and think about life without dealers >>



Okay, I did that. Now what?



<< <i>but olny a dealer has the vast knoweldge to insure your walet and investment isnt rapped! >>



I'll let the Laura Like™ spelling slide and just have a good laugh at the premise.

Russ, NCNE

Shamika

<< <i>if it wasnt for dealers, you would have no coins to buy, and thus no hobby. >>


Say what? There is this wonderful website (among others) called eBay that allows collectors to buy and sell coins between themselves. Dealers can be helpful (some more than others), but the best coins in my collection were not purchased from coin dealers.

Leiana

<< <i>Sure there are a few bad seeds,wedd them out and move on.

so you're saying the key to establishing a successful dealer relationship is to marry one?? that would work well for someone like Lieana but for most of us the pickin' is gonna be thin unless Ms. Karstedt is single, and i doubt that. oops, almost forgot the fetching Jade girl, Tassa!!!

it is a novel concept, though. >>





Not yet marriageable, Keets!

-Amanda

dorkkarl

<< <i><< if it wasnt for dealers, you would have no coins to buy, and thus no hobby. >>

Say what? There is this wonderful website (among others) called eBay that allows collectors to buy and sell coins between themselves. Dealers can be helpful (some more than others), but the best coins in my collection were not purchased from coin dealers. >>

but, if dealers hadn't helped turn this into such a popular hobby, would there be enough interest to maintain a market on ebay?

K S

RYK

I have never had a problem with dealers. Not a single one. I generally assume the best, and it usually turns out that way. I protect myself by making sure that I have a return privilige for items ordered and other contingencies as required. I think that if you enter a dealer relationship (or even a transaction) with cynicism and a negative attitude, you are more likely to have a bad experience.

That said, as pointed out elsewhere, there are scammers and thieves that give the well-intentioned, honest coin dealers a bad name, just like in medicine, law, business, accounting, car sales, government, etc.

keets

Not yet marriageable, Keets!

how's that DiTech commercial go, "Just lost another one..............."

Leiana

<< <i>Not yet marriageable, Keets!

how's that DiTech commercial go, "Just lost another one..............." >>





-Amanda

showmethepenneys

I loved all the points you all have made, They made me think quite a bit. There are bad dealers, but many good ones.Without dealers and their expertise, it would be far easier to get ripped, becuse a person may not know a experianced collector to help them, anyone can find a dealer becuse they are in a fixed postion and easy to find, collectors you may be luck to chance upon. I appriaciate all the responses!

RichieURich

<< <i> just cant get over how much hate there is for dealers

With the exception of only a few forum members, I don't see any general hatred of dealers. What I do see is a common hatred of specific dealers and disgust with specific business practices. >>




I agree with Andy. I think part of it is that collectors are told to be careful, then when they get to a show they're quick to react to any negativity by a dealer. It could just be that maybe whatever he/she specializes in isn't selling that day.

Another thing (and the topic of another thread) is markup. In the other thread I mentioned buying a coin from a part-time dealer for $600 and when it arrived, the flip indicated he had bought it for $11. OK, raise your hands, how many people (especially collectors) would say I got ripped off? But that wasn't the case, I just paid market value, and he got lucky because some dealer didn't recognize a variety. Later I upgraded and sold my $600 coin for $650 - - to a knowledgeable collector. Now if you change the facts and make it a hypothetical - - and cut out the middleman - - how many people would say if I bought a coin for $11 and sold it for $650, that I was ripping off the buyer?

Shamika

<< <i>but, if dealers hadn't helped turn this into such a popular hobby, would there be enough interest to maintain a market on ebay? >>


Does there really need to be a "market" in coins? When the hobby becomes an industry, corruption is bound to follow. Again, dealers can be an asset, but I often wonder if dealers are really the ones driving the market.

UncleWiggly

<< <i> just cant get over how much hate there is for dealers

With the exception of only a few forum members, I don't see any general hatred of dealers. What I do see is a common hatred of specific dealers and disgust with specific business practices. >>




I don't either. I think showmethepenneys kind of deflates is statement by staing this. "Sure there are a few bad seeds, wedd (sic) them out and move on." That's exactly what I see here.



Jerry

MS70ORBUST

<< <i>I just cant get over how much hate there is for dealers, if it wasent for dealers,you would have no coins to buy, and thus no hobby. Dealers live off your passion and try to provide high quality service.
Sure there are a few bad seeds,wedd them out and move on.
Having a good deaker with tons of knoweldge is very handy.I like my dealer, he has a great inventory,good prices, and he is honest.
I would appricate it you all would just take a minute and think about life without dealers, anyone can sell a coin, but olny a dealer has the vast knoweldge to insure your walet and investment isnt rapped!Thank you. >>




I guess you are correct to a point. If it wasnt for dealers there would be no lowball offers or overinflated prices. The above statement probably applies to no more then 10% of dealers.

coinguy1

<<I guess you are correct to a point. If it wasnt for dealers there would be no lowball offers or overinflated prices. The above statement probably applies to no more then 10% of dealers.>>

MS70ORBUST, do you really think that only dealers are guilty of those things? Perhaps they are (far) more likely to be guilty of that than collectors are, but they are certainly not alone in such activities.

pbfloyd

I have a inlaw who works at a local TV station. I have been trying to get him to do one of those undercover expose' on coin shops. Have a person go to all the coin shops in the city.(including jewlery/coin) with a couple of rare valuable coins and see what they get offered.
I think it would be better that those on rip off repair shops!

dorkkarl

<< <i><< but, if dealers hadn't helped turn this into such a popular hobby, would there be enough interest to maintain a market on ebay? >>


Does there really need to be a "market" in coins? When the hobby becomes an industry, corruption is bound to follow. Again, dealers can be an asset, but I often wonder if dealers are really the ones driving the market. >>

maybe not today, but there is 200 years of history that dealers have been involved in buying & selling coins, & thanks to them, we have a hobby today. had dealers never existed, i imagine coin collecting would be pretty obscure

K S

Derek2100

There a lot of people here who bash dealers. It does not bother me any more than the boo birds in the losing team's crowd. For the most part they are ignorant of what it takes to make it in the coin biz.

saintguru

<< <i>Sure there are a few bad seeds,wedd them out and move on.

so you're saying the key to establishing a successful dealer relationship is to marry one?? that would work well for someone like Lieana but for most of us the pickin' is gonna be thin unless Ms. Karstedt is single, and i doubt that. oops, almost forgot the fetching Jade girl, Tassa!!!

it is a novel concept, though. >>



the younger Karstedt woman is single, Tiger. She likes fine wine. **wink**

lkenefic

I think like most things in life you've got to learn how to weed out the good from the bad...the wheat from the chaff as it were. There are honest coin dealers and there are dishonest ones. Also...like most things in life...people enjoy talking about the negatives for much longer and louder than the positives. We had a saying in the military..."one awww $h!t erases 10 ataboys." The threads about getting ripped off by a dealer far outweigh the threads where both parties finalize a deal and part ways happy. I'm generally happy about the deals I've made at my local B&M shop, and I've made a few decent deals on eBay as well. The few instances that eBay didn't worked out I viewed as a learning experience [both as a buyer and as a seller].

So do dealers deserve the "bashing"? Some do...but generally most don't.

Leo

Myqqy

There's a local shop that I go to on a regular basis, owned by an elderly asian couple and their middle age son. Recently I was there on a very warm afternoon, and me and the son were talking about bottled water and preferences- as I was finishing up my $20 purchase, the mom came out with a cold bottle of aquafina in her hand for me, as she had overheard me say it was my favorite. They're very cool people, and I appreciate the respect they show to everyone that comes through their doors....

ER

<< <i>I just cant get over how much hate there is for dealers, if it wasent for dealers,you would have no coins to buy, and thus no hobby. Dealers live off your passion and try to provide high quality service.
Sure there are a few bad seeds,wedd them out and move on.
Having a good deaker with tons of knoweldge is very handy.I like my dealer, he has a great inventory,good prices, and he is honest.
I would appricate it you all would just take a minute and think about life without dealers, anyone can sell a coin, but olny a dealer has the vast knoweldge to insure your walet and investment isnt rapped!Thank you. >>


Please, read Julian's sigline. This is a hobby, not a necessity.

lkenefic

<< <i>I just cant get over how much hate there is for dealers, if it wasent for dealers,you would have no coins to buy, and thus no hobby. Dealers live off your passion and try to provide high quality service.
Sure there are a few bad seeds,wedd them out and move on.
Having a good deaker with tons of knoweldge is very handy.I like my dealer, he has a great inventory,good prices, and he is honest.
I would appricate it you all would just take a minute and think about life without dealers, anyone can sell a coin, but olny a dealer has the vast knoweldge to insure your walet and investment isnt rapped!Thank you. >>



After going back and re-reading the original post...I'm wondering...we ARE talking about coin dealers...right???

that is...coin dealers...not drug dealers...

showmethepenneys

yes, make fun of the spelling all you want. i know it sucks.
Just fill in the blanks, likw when you hear a foriegner talk.

FredWeinberg

Myqqy -

Norm and Janet Locke are two of the nicest people
you'd ever hope to meet - I've known them for about
35-36 years.......Norm has a great sense of humor !

They, and their son John, are exemplary examples of
Coin Shop owners/dealers....a credit to the industry.

Please tell them I say hello if you remember the next
time you're in their shop.

Fred Weinberg

96eagle

My local dealer buys gold all the time for 50% of spot, people coming in say"what will you give me for these". Most who come in have no clue what the spot is for silver and gold. A little research, and they would be in the know. It's like they think the coin shop is the end all say all. Some dumb people in this world.

96eagle