"Charlie Batch will be fine"
joestalin
Posts: 12,473 ✭✭
in Sports Talk
-Bill Cowher.
Ahh, no actually he wont be fine. The fish defense is smelling blood in the waters! Getting punked on opening night at your
own place would not be a great way to start the season. The real question is which team is worse....Pitt w/o Ben or Indy
w/o Manning?
JS
Ahh, no actually he wont be fine. The fish defense is smelling blood in the waters! Getting punked on opening night at your
own place would not be a great way to start the season. The real question is which team is worse....Pitt w/o Ben or Indy
w/o Manning?
JS
0
Comments
<< <i>which team is worse >>
The Suckaneers.
<< <i>-Bill Cowher.
Ahh, no actually he wont be fine. The fish defense is smelling blood in the waters! Getting punked on opening night at your
own place would not be a great way to start the season. The real question is which team is worse....Pitt w/o Ben or Indy
w/o Manning?
JS >>
Last time I checked, Pittsburgh's defense is just fine!
<< <i>
<< <i>which team is worse >>
The Suckaneers. >>
That's "Succaneers"
I hope
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<< <i>-Bill Cowher.
Ahh, no actually he wont be fine. The fish defense is smelling blood in the waters! Getting punked on opening night at your
own place would not be a great way to start the season. The real question is which team is worse....Pitt w/o Ben or Indy
w/o Manning?
JS >>
Roethlisberger is horribly overrated. He's a servicable QB on a very good football team-- the Mark Rypien of his generation. Charlie Batch may not be quite as good, but he's not a big step down.
It will be business as usual for the Steelers. They get the ground game going, they win. If they don't, the lose.
<< <i>
<< <i>-Bill Cowher.
Ahh, no actually he wont be fine. The fish defense is smelling blood in the waters! Getting punked on opening night at your
own place would not be a great way to start the season. The real question is which team is worse....Pitt w/o Ben or Indy
w/o Manning?
JS >>
Roethlisberger is horribly overrated. He's a servicable QB on a very good football team-- the Mark Rypien of his generation. Charlie Batch may not be quite as good, but he's not a big step down.
It will be business as usual for the Steelers. They get the ground game going, they win. If they don't, the lose. >>
Well said! Except for the Roethlisberger part
<< <i>-Bill Cowher.
Ahh, no actually he wont be fine. The fish defense is smelling blood in the waters! Getting punked on opening night at your
own place would not be a great way to start the season. The real question is which team is worse....Pitt w/o Ben or Indy
w/o Manning?
JS >>
3 TD, 0 INT, 124 QB Rating.
<< <i>
Roethlisberger is horribly overrated. He's a servicable QB on a very good football team-- the Mark Rypien of his generation. Charlie Batch may not be quite as good, but he's not a big step down.
>>
I disagree. I think Ben is underrated. How can someone be overrated when all the talking heads claim his record is only a product of the team he's on? Mike Vick, now there's an overrated QB. He hasn't done a thing and the media already has him in the HOF.
Maddox sucked last year. If the team was so great, they should have won with him. Maddox was a quality QB in '02 and '03. He should have been lights out managing the offense. It isn't automatic. Big Ben doesn't get many passing opportunities because the Steelers usually run out the clock in the second half. However, when he does get the opportunity, he makes the most of it. He has nearly a 100 QB rating for his career and always is right up at the top in yards per attempt. Yet the media always claims he's a dink and dunk game manager. In reality, most of his passes are moderate to deep balls.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Roethlisberger is horribly overrated. He's a servicable QB on a very good football team-- the Mark Rypien of his generation. Charlie Batch may not be quite as good, but he's not a big step down.
>>
I disagree. I think Ben is underrated. How can someone be overrated when all the talking heads claim his record is only a product of the team he's on? Mike Vick, now there's an overrated QB. He hasn't done a thing and the media already has him in the HOF.
Maddox sucked last year. If the team was so great, they should have won with him. Maddox was a quality QB in '02 and '03. He should have been lights out managing the offense. It isn't automatic. Big Ben doesn't get many passing opportunities because the Steelers usually run out the clock in the second half. However, when he does get the opportunity, he makes the most of it. He has nearly a 100 QB rating for his career and always is right up at the top in yards per attempt. Yet the media always claims he's a dink and dunk game manager. In reality, most of his passes are moderate to deep balls. >>
Well, I completely agree that Vick is overrated.
But you saw what Batch did tonight, and he's a solid QB but he's no worldbeater. When you have a strong ground attack and a rock solid defense that wins the field position battle you don't have to do all that much as a QB to win games-- as Batch showed tonight, and Maddox showed in earlier seasons, as Kordell Stewart showed before him, and so on. The opposing defenses stack 8 men in the box to stop the run (because that has to be the first priority),and now you've got two and maybe three receivers with man coverage. At that point all you have to do is hit 'em in the hands. Roethlisberger's QB rating is high, but that isn't the result of any great talent-- it's because he's given the opportunity every game to make high percentage throws. If the Steelers don't have that monstrous ground game then we would never hear about Big Ben, Hines Ward, Heath Miller, or any of the rest of them.
You put one of any number of QB's back there-- Brunell, Bulger, Warner, Culpepper, probably even Kitna or Griese-- and this Steelers team would just roll on. Roethlisberger does not, IMO, bring anything to the position that a number of other guys can't bring as well. And that's why the Steelers have been so successful for so long-- somebody in Steelerland 'gets it', and understands that a solid defense, bruising ground game and a QB that doesn't make mistakes (but isn't necessarily the second coming of Johnny U) will consistenly win you 9-11 games in the NFL. From there you enter the post-season crap shoot, where anything can happen. The Broncos have put a similar blueprint in place, and even with a total headcase for a QB they're still one of the AFC's elite teams. If they had someone behind center who was solid but unspectacular (someone like Roethlisberger, for instance) Mike Shanahan would have long since put to rest those whispers about how he's never won the Super Bowl without Elway.
It will be interesting to see what happens if Roethlisberger goes down for an extended period of time. If he does I bet that Batch, or whomever else they have back there, leads the team to roughly as many wins as Roethlisberger would have. Now don't get me wrong-- I think Roethlisberger is a fine QB for his team, and there's no reason in the world why they should try and replace him. I'm just saying that I don't think he's all that responsible for the Steelers' success the past couple years.
<< <i>Charlie Batch was fine. >>
After the refs starting taking care of him. Before that he was being thrown around like a rag doll.
JS
How long did it take for one of the offenses to even get a first down? A solid offense would have taken over the momentum after being given that many opportunities. Miami still had a chance to win it in the fourth quarter if not for the interceptions.
<< <i>
Well, I completely agree that Vick is overrated.
*We agree on this
But you saw what Batch did tonight, and he's a solid QB but he's no worldbeater.
*Agreed
When you have a strong ground attack and a rock solid defense that wins the field position battle you don't have to do all that much as a QB to win games-- as Batch showed tonight, and Maddox showed in earlier seasons, as Kordell Stewart showed before him, and so on.
*Agree to some extent. The Steelers were a good team but not a great team under Maddox and particularly under Stewart (who played when Bettis was still in his prime). Stewart couldn't complete a deep pass if his life depended on it. The only reason he was effective was because he was good with the QB sneak and he had receivers who could make spectacular catches on all his misfired passes.
The opposing defenses stack 8 men in the box to stop the run (because that has to be the first priority),and now you've got two and maybe three receivers with man coverage. At that point all you have to do is hit 'em in the hands.
*How's this different from what Edgerrin James does for Peyton and what Corey Dillon does for Brady?
Roethlisberger's QB rating is high, but that isn't the result of any great talent-- it's because he's given the opportunity every game to make high percentage throws.
*High percentage throws? Did you see the playoffs last year? The AFCC game? The pump fake toss to the back of the end zone to Cedric Wilson that schooled Champ Bailey, the bullet to Hines Ward between two defenders in the back of the end zone. He does that all the time. He just doesn't get the credit because he isn't throwing 45 times a game and racking up 300 passing yards in meaningless games like Favre has been doing in recent years. You have to watch the games to really see what he brings to the table. You can't look at his passing yard or TD stat sheet to see the intangibles. I've watched every game he's played, so I've seen the amazing plays he made to bring the Steelers back against Dallas in '04 and against San Diego in '05 among other games.
If the Steelers don't have that monstrous ground game then we would never hear about Big Ben, Hines Ward, Heath Miller, or any of the rest of them.
* Again I don't agree. Hines is a 4-time pro bowler (consecutive seasons), arguably the best blocking receiver in the league and was the superbowl MVP (not the Bus or Willie Parker or any other Steeler RB). Heath isn't a star yet. He caught 6 TD passes in his rookie season in limited opportunities.
You put one of any number of QB's back there-- Brunell, Bulger, Warner, Culpepper, probably even Kitna or Griese-- and this Steelers team would just roll on.
* I disagree. The Steelers were 2-1 without Ben and 14-1 with him in 2004. In 2005, they were 13-3 with him and 2-2 without him. They are an average team when he doesn't play. They were 6-10 the year before his rookie season, hence the 11th pick which was great because they got to draft Ben.
Roethlisberger does not, IMO, bring anything to the position that a number of other guys can't bring as well.
* How many QBs have a higher rating when flushed out of the pocket than when they sit in the pocket? His QB rating is something like 108 when he's throwing on the run. Those throws are not dump offs either. Most are down field or across the field throws. That's a skill few QBs have.
And that's why the Steelers have been so successful for so long-- somebody in Steelerland 'gets it', and understands that a solid defense, bruising ground game and a QB that doesn't make mistakes (but isn't necessarily the second coming of Johnny U) will consistenly win you 9-11 games in the NFL.
* Agree that a good running game and solid defense are a must for a perennial contender but that doesn't mean the QB automatically is average just because he doesn't pad his passing stats with meaningless throws in garbage time.
From there you enter the post-season crap shoot, where anything can happen. The Broncos have put a similar blueprint in place, and even with a total headcase for a QB they're still one of the AFC's elite teams.
* Just like with Kordell Stewart, they can't get any further than the AFCC game with a decent but not great QB.
If they had someone behind center who was solid but unspectacular (someone like Roethlisberger, for instance) Mike Shanahan would have long since put to rest those whispers about how he's never won the Super Bowl without Elway.
* Time will tell. It wasn't all Jake's fault they lost that game. Pittsburgh quickly put up 17 points on the vaunted Bronco defense before Jake the Mistake ever reared his ugly head. That forced the offense to take more chances. By the way, those 24 first half points were set up mostly by Ben's arm.
It will be interesting to see what happens if Roethlisberger goes down for an extended period of time.
* "Ben" there, done that. He was out four games due to various injuries that coencided with the Steelers nearly falling out of playoff contention.
If he does I bet that Batch, or whomever else they have back there, leads the team to roughly as many wins as Roethlisberger would have. Now don't get me wrong-- I think Roethlisberger is a fine QB for his team, and there's no reason in the world why they should try and replace him. I'm just saying that I don't think he's all that responsible for the Steelers' success the past couple years.
* I agree here. The Steelers are deep with talent and Ben is not the only reason this team is successful. However, I have no doubt in my mind that he could throw for 4000 yards and 30 TDs if that's what the Steelers needed from him. He did it in college and has shown he can put up big passing numbers in the rare case when the Steelers get caught up in a shoot out.
>>
<< <i>Long post, so I'll reply one at a time within your email:
<< <i>
Well, I completely agree that Vick is overrated.
*We agree on this
But you saw what Batch did tonight, and he's a solid QB but he's no worldbeater.
*Agreed
When you have a strong ground attack and a rock solid defense that wins the field position battle you don't have to do all that much as a QB to win games-- as Batch showed tonight, and Maddox showed in earlier seasons, as Kordell Stewart showed before him, and so on.
*Agree to some extent. The Steelers were a good team but not a great team under Maddox and particularly under Stewart (who played when Bettis was still in his prime). Stewart couldn't complete a deep pass if his life depended on it. The only reason he was effective was because he was good with the QB sneak and he had receivers who could make spectacular catches on all his misfired passes.
The opposing defenses stack 8 men in the box to stop the run (because that has to be the first priority),and now you've got two and maybe three receivers with man coverage. At that point all you have to do is hit 'em in the hands.
*How's this different from what Edgerrin James does for Peyton and what Corey Dillon does for Brady?
Roethlisberger's QB rating is high, but that isn't the result of any great talent-- it's because he's given the opportunity every game to make high percentage throws.
*High percentage throws? Did you see the playoffs last year? The AFCC game? The pump fake toss to the back of the end zone to Cedric Wilson that schooled Champ Bailey, the bullet to Hines Ward between two defenders in the back of the end zone. He does that all the time. He just doesn't get the credit because he isn't throwing 45 times a game and racking up 300 passing yards in meaningless games like Favre has been doing in recent years. You have to watch the games to really see what he brings to the table. You can't look at his passing yard or TD stat sheet to see the intangibles. I've watched every game he's played, so I've seen the amazing plays he made to bring the Steelers back against Dallas in '04 and against San Diego in '05 among other games.
If the Steelers don't have that monstrous ground game then we would never hear about Big Ben, Hines Ward, Heath Miller, or any of the rest of them.
* Again I don't agree. Hines is a 4-time pro bowler (consecutive seasons including 2003 when the Steelers were next to last in rushing in the NFL), arguably the best blocking receiver in the league and was the superbowl MVP (not the Bus or Willie Parker or any other Steeler RB). Heath isn't a star yet. He caught 6 TD passes in his rookie season in limited opportunities.
You put one of any number of QB's back there-- Brunell, Bulger, Warner, Culpepper, probably even Kitna or Griese-- and this Steelers team would just roll on.
* I disagree. The Steelers were 2-1 without Ben and 14-1 with him in 2004. In 2005, they were 13-3 with him and 2-2 without him. They are an average team when he doesn't play. They were 6-10 the year before his rookie season, hence the 11th pick which was great because they got to draft Ben.
Roethlisberger does not, IMO, bring anything to the position that a number of other guys can't bring as well.
* How many QBs have a higher rating when flushed out of the pocket than when they sit in the pocket? His QB rating is something like 108 when he's throwing on the run. Those throws are not dump offs either. Most are down field or across the field throws. That's a skill few QBs have.
And that's why the Steelers have been so successful for so long-- somebody in Steelerland 'gets it', and understands that a solid defense, bruising ground game and a QB that doesn't make mistakes (but isn't necessarily the second coming of Johnny U) will consistenly win you 9-11 games in the NFL.
* Agree that a good running game and solid defense are a must for a perennial contender but that doesn't mean the QB automatically is average just because he doesn't pad his passing stats with meaningless throws in garbage time.
From there you enter the post-season crap shoot, where anything can happen. The Broncos have put a similar blueprint in place, and even with a total headcase for a QB they're still one of the AFC's elite teams.
* Just like with Kordell Stewart, they can't get any further than the AFCC game with a decent but not great QB.
If they had someone behind center who was solid but unspectacular (someone like Roethlisberger, for instance) Mike Shanahan would have long since put to rest those whispers about how he's never won the Super Bowl without Elway.
* Time will tell. It wasn't all Jake's fault they lost that game. Pittsburgh quickly put up 17 points on the vaunted Bronco defense before Jake the Mistake ever reared his ugly head. That forced the offense to take more chances. By the way, those 24 first half points were set up mostly by Ben's arm.
It will be interesting to see what happens if Roethlisberger goes down for an extended period of time.
* "Ben" there, done that. He was out four games due to various injuries that coencided with the Steelers nearly falling out of playoff contention.
If he does I bet that Batch, or whomever else they have back there, leads the team to roughly as many wins as Roethlisberger would have. Now don't get me wrong-- I think Roethlisberger is a fine QB for his team, and there's no reason in the world why they should try and replace him. I'm just saying that I don't think he's all that responsible for the Steelers' success the past couple years.
* I agree here. The Steelers are deep with talent and Ben is not the only reason this team is successful. However, I have no doubt in my mind that he could throw for 4000 yards and 30 TDs if that's what the Steelers needed from him. He did it in college and has shown he can put up big passing numbers in the rare case when the Steelers get caught up in a shoot out.
In closing, I'll say that if your interest is in fantasy football, you are right to stay away from Big Ben. You'll be better off selecting Favre. Who cares if the team goes 3-13? He'll get your 300 passing yards and 2 TDs per game.
>>
>>
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Agree with the fantasy football analogy re Big Ben. Bottom line is that the guy is a winner, and that's all any QB can ever aspire to be. Manning has all the stats, big yards, big TDs, great team last year, and he failed again. I think alot of fans look at football players like they're analyzing them for a fantasy draft, but though Big Ben is on the bench in most fantasy leagues, there are very few other QBs I'd rather have on my side in a big game. And I'm not even a Steelers fan, but I can appreciate the savvy and the guts Ben has when he needs to make the big play. Don't forget how young he is, too. It's amazing how much he's already accomplished. >>
Good point. I'm sure most players would rather be a winner than a stat compiler.