An Observation Concerning 2006 SF Coins
wondercoin
Posts: 16,979 ✭✭✭✭✭
It seems to me that "hunting" for 2006 top grade SF specimens is closing in on becoming as challenging an endeavor as hunting for non-SF coins has always been. I base this on a few observations:
1. There are some extremely difficult 2006 coins to locate this year even in MS69 grade (e.g. NV(p) state quarters, Kennedy (d)). This is no different than last year. But....
2. The pursuit of 2006 MS70SF specimens has become a act of futility - nearly as tough as locating non-SF MS69 coins. They are just not being graded.
3. The undergrade (MS68SF) coins are worth, at times, close to half the cost of the grading fees/cost of coin - making the "hunt" that much more difficult and costly. For example, I have seen MS68SF pieces selling for less than $5/coin on ebay - something you did not see same time last year in the hunt for 2005 SF coins.
4. Results have been shockingly poor. Recently, I know of a skilled "hunter" who carefully inspected more than 700 Mint Sets. The results of the "hunt" - -0- MS70 coins and less than (30) MS69 coins! That is less than a single MS69 coin in every 20 mint sets!!
Do you agree that the hunt for top grade 2006 SF coins has become exceedingly more difficult and expensive in 2006?
Wondercoin
1. There are some extremely difficult 2006 coins to locate this year even in MS69 grade (e.g. NV(p) state quarters, Kennedy (d)). This is no different than last year. But....
2. The pursuit of 2006 MS70SF specimens has become a act of futility - nearly as tough as locating non-SF MS69 coins. They are just not being graded.
3. The undergrade (MS68SF) coins are worth, at times, close to half the cost of the grading fees/cost of coin - making the "hunt" that much more difficult and costly. For example, I have seen MS68SF pieces selling for less than $5/coin on ebay - something you did not see same time last year in the hunt for 2005 SF coins.
4. Results have been shockingly poor. Recently, I know of a skilled "hunter" who carefully inspected more than 700 Mint Sets. The results of the "hunt" - -0- MS70 coins and less than (30) MS69 coins! That is less than a single MS69 coin in every 20 mint sets!!
Do you agree that the hunt for top grade 2006 SF coins has become exceedingly more difficult and expensive in 2006?
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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What is causing this: the lack of quality from the Mint (Which is suppose to be better) or the tightness of PCGS (In the mist of a brand new '03-P MS70RD Linc!)
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
Toby
Not sure exactly why the spotting occurs so frequently on these SF Lincolns, especially the "D" minted coins from both 2005 and 2006. From my experience, significantly more prevalent than on prior mint set year coins.
And, I agree with Paul that the 2006 SF Roosies are a bit nicer quality in the top grade of MS69FB than last year BUT, IMHO, PCGS may also be a "hair" more generous on its definition of FB in 2006 as compared to 2005, especially on the Denver MS69FB pieces from what I have seen.
Chris - Surprisingly, the pops are higher on many coins in 2006 than 2005 in MS69 and yet, I totally agree with you that the grading appears a bit "tighter" on state quarters and other denominations in 2006 than 2005. This may be partly because PCGS graded many dozens of non-Lincoln cents MS70 coins in 2005 and these coins "paid for" the time and effort" screening these coins. Other than "p" mint Lincolns, to this point, you can basically forget getting an MS70 grade this year, resulting in that many more MS69 coins on the market - hence, lower prices for MS69's (due to higher pops), virtually no MS70's and a "hunt" that in my observation is becoming as difficult and cosly as the usual hunt for non-SF coins.
Wondercoin
There are most definately some very scarce varieties indeed!!! While we've made many 69's including the 06P-NV-69SF, they didn't come easy.
I would say that there are more submitters this year and most are not doing well with their search as evidenced by the # of 67's and 68's they're receiving. Based on many of the open auctions, I would say those submitters are not going to keep it up as they are at a loss even with the 69s. All the 69s you see out there make it look easy, but watch them sell out and not go make more because they can't afford the loss. Some of the scarcer coins could get very expensive.
My regards to those who are having difficulties,
No problems here finding coins
Maybe the East Coast received all the Gem mint sets
and the remote NW
I wish that were the case as I'm in Maryland
Wondercoin
2006-P MS69FB/SF = 39
2006-D MS69FB/SF = 16
VERY strong prices on eBay last night for both of these coins. Roosie collectors are very thirsty for decent '06's as the Business Strike examples are virtually non-exsistant.
Hunters...if you want to make some $$$ make a couple of MS70FB/SF Roosies.
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
<< <i>VERY strong prices on eBay last night for both of these coins. Roosie collectors are very thirsty for decent '06's as the Business Strike examples are virtually non-exsistant. >>
Paul it seems a couple of our Roosie collectors are bidding on every lot that comes up on ebay. And this after at least one having won both 06's in in a previous auction.
Not sure the reasoning behind this, maybe trying to corner the market on the 06's in MS69SF?
Then again, maybe they are thinking the pops will stall out and prices will jump, and a profit can be made.
I don't like bidding against, or outbidding, collectors I know, but sooner or later I'm going to have to jump in and do just that. No hard feelings guys, but you can't have them all.
I have had every single '06 FB on my watch page and the prices are all over the place.
Date-n-type sold a pair for $550 BIN in 2 separate lots and then someone bid around $160 for a combined lot. The other night, someone paid close to or over $200 (I forgot) for just the D in 69FB w/o the P. I'm
I'm in no hurry, but yes, I'm gonna have to get me the pair just like everyone else.
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
The prices I've seen have indeed been all over the place. These are currently out there:
There's a P-69FB with a bid placed high: 06P-69-FB #1 Ouch!
Yet we have this listed with a buy it now of less than half... : 06P-69-FB #2
There's a D-69FB bid up past the one below: 06D-69-FB #1
D-69-FB #2
Edited to add: #2 above is gone, but here's our last one for the example intended: 2006D 10c 69FB #3
The population report moved a lot last Monday, then Thursday, and yesterday again, so the repricing is necessary now that it is apparent that at least the P-69FB is going to be available. Unfortunately, not all bidders go look to see other prices before placing their bids.
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Sorry for getting off topic Mitch, but the 10c are the exception for 2006.
Regards,
Seth - No, by all means. I agree, but, as I mentioned (especially on some of the "d" mint coins I have seen), it appeared to me that PCGS have moved close to the middle of its range on what it demands for a 69FB coin - have you seen that as well Seth?
And, your new pricing at $99/coin (great collector friendly pricing by the way) supports further my observation that hunting for 2006 SF coins will be challenging after all time and costs are entered into the equation.
Wondercoin
The collector friendly pricing is what we intend to consistently provide. I do the best I can to make the price fair and accurate to relative rarity. Sometimes have to lower below other dealer pricing to do this. In this case, our prices were already lower than the bids and the bidder(s) weren't watching very closely. (Unfortunate)
I agree that 69FB are and are tough to provide at the lower prices. (If the P-69FB were a State Quarter, it would be worth double...) I have no complaints, but I don't think many realize what goes into providing a $100 coin. Many collectors have told us that it saves them a lot of money to just buy the coins as it would cost them more $$$ to find them (Satin Finish) + all the time they would spend trying to do it. I'm not talking about going through a 1000 coin bag from the mint which many collectors enjoy.
Bye for now,
That is precisely why I pulled the trigger on my 06-D 1c in 69RDSF...it just isn't worth the hassle anymore. Pop is sitting at 11 FOR NOW with no 70's made (YET) so I'm not feeling too bad about spending what I spent on the coin
<< <i>Just to make sure, I double checked. The 06D-69-FB in our set and the one listed both have full bands. I didn't check the 68s, but the 69s are on the mark.
The collector friendly pricing is what we intend to consistently provide. I do the best I can to make the price fair and accurate to relative rarity. Sometimes have to lower below other dealer pricing to do this. In this case, our prices were already lower than the bids and the bidder(s) weren't watching very closely. (Unfortunate)
I agree that 69FB are and are tough to provide at the lower prices. (If the P-69FB were a State Quarter, it would be worth double...) I have no complaints, but I don't think many realize what goes into providing a $100 coin. Many collectors have told us that it saves them a lot of money to just buy the coins as it would cost them more $$$ to find them (Satin Finish) + all the time they would spend trying to do it. I'm not talking about going through a 1000 coin bag from the mint which many collectors enjoy.
Bye for now, >>
Ya know I feel the "I have to have it now" bug just like everyone else. The dimes are tricky. There are a few that buy no matter what the price, and I have done that for some "Must have" dimes, but I think if you sit back and wait for the prices to fall you have to then consider when to buy. If the '06-D MS69FB is sitting at 16, I now have seen a good dozen come and go. When do you pull the trigger and jump in? After a while, alot of them are gone into strong hands and then they are far and few between, and then the prices start to rise again. Heck its worse then watching GAS prices at the local Mobil!
IMHO $100 is a fair decent price for a '06-P MS69FB, and $150-$175 for the '06-D MS69FB.
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
<< <i>IMHO $100 is a fair decent price for a '06-P MS69FB, and $150-$175 for the '06-D MS69FB. Later, Paul. >>
I agree with your assessment of fair pricing today.
<< <i>It definately looks like this year is gonna be a lot tougher than last year. >>
This means that the '08 SF coins will have tons of 70's. There really seems to be a pattern immerging with 1 good year, 1 bad, 1 good, 1 bad etc......
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
<< <i>To the best of my knowledge all but the 1 coin on ebay that you saw have been placed privately or the collector had made their own coin. Seems to be a growing want list for this coin.
We made 6 of them (not all in one day) and they went very quickly. Unless someone comes up with one before Monday, the pop should be 10 and they're all spoken for. As you say, there are a few more waiting for the next coins to be made.
It'll be interested to see which one of us makes the first 70 if one's to be made.
1. No MS70 coins being graded this year so simply more MS69 coins getting slabbed in their place that are now "extras" and, essentially, more coins than collectors at this point?
2. Modern state quarter collectors simply being "tapped out" right now due to spending nearly every cent they have available with the biggest dealer of all - the US Mint?
3. More "hunters" than previous years = more "homemade coins" and less bidding for others MS69 coins?
Wondercoin
In the past, few coins were ever offered on Buy It Now this early on. When some of us put a fair sticker price on the coins, it greatly affects open auction.
Why bid when it's already fairly priced?
Since nobody can trust the PoP reports any more. Between PCGS and the mint going all over the place with the quality of the coins and the grades given many collectors are just getting lost or dischanted with the series.
Seth: Are they being priced at $25-$30 in MS69SF right now without collectors having to compete in open bid auctions above $19 or $20?
Linedad: True MS69SF coins are really not "common as dirt" in my opinion, although I agree they are certainly not "rare" (or even scarce) coins. Also, it is hard to say collectors are not paying $25 for MS69SF coins because they are upset that PCGS is not requiring them to buy non-SF coins for the same slots as well.
Wondercoin
<< <i>"Why bid when it's already fairly priced?"
Seth: Are they being priced at $25-$30 in MS69SF right now without collectors having to compete in open bid auctions above $19 or $20? >>
I think it's a case of too many of the same coin in open auction. We have Buy Now pricing between $35&$50 for both P/D Nebraskas and Colorados. (Not as tough as the other 6 varieties.) If there are 10 +/- of one of those coins in open auction, then it makes sense with oversupply. Plus, many of the would-be bidders simply paid Buy Now pricing instead of haggling.
It makes perfect sense to me that a coin with a buy now of $35 or $40 might close at $20 in open auction when there are 10 others listed the same way. What do you think Ford or GM might get for a truck in open auction these days?
<< <i>With pricing as I'm hearing about here, don't make any sense to make these coins??? >>
I'll add that I have noticed that MS67 Business strike coins seem to be priced a little higher.
So the question is "What is collectable?"
Even though PCGS doesn't see fit to put them in sets.
<< <i>I'll add that I have noticed that MS67 Business strike coins seem to be priced a little higher. >>
Just don't make sense when they are all considered equal
Just passing by