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What to do? Ebay problem. Help!
BigDaddyBowman
Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭
I just wanted to ask for opinions since I have never had this happen before. I have bought and sold on ebay for years, mainly buying. I have bought over 200 cards and have sold only about 25. I sell off duplicates as I upgrade just to buy more cards for my collection. I have perfect feedback. In all of my tranactions, I have never had the seller, or myself not receive the card..until now. I recently listed about 8 cards and shipped them all out the same day. All of the cards were received by the bidders, except one..I received positives from them all except for the one card. Ther bidder emailed me and said that he never received the card..it has been several weeks so he should have by now. No insurance was offered on the auction and none was purchased. My first thought is to simply just refund the entire amount...but a part of me thinks I might be getting hoodwinked. Do I offer to pay only half of the money? All the money? none of the money? I want to do the "right" thing. What are your thooughts?
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if it's a small dollar thing maybe just refund him and block him. It's possible he didn't get the card and small $$ not worth worrying about.
If it's not a small $$ thing, and you sell it, pay the money for the insurance. Insurance is cheap and protects you, not just the buyer.
View Vintage Football Cards For Sale
I have done 3000 ebay tranactions , 2500 buys and 500 sells..................all sent via the USPS......................the USPS lost two items.
My Policy:
Getting delivery confirmation on a $5.00 item is silly.....if it is a $25 item I will pay for delivery confirmation sometimes...depending on the buyers feedback.
1955 Bowman Raw complete with 90% Ex-NR or better
Now seeking 1949 Eureka Sportstamps...NM condition
Working on '78 Autographed set now 99.9% complete -
Working on '89 Topps autoed set now complete
You can investigate all you want and knowing that you shipped
it; but without DC /tracking, you will get hosed in the end.
I would say that I buy a lot on Ebay, and over 90% of the packages I receive do not have DC on them. Basically, I could be getting all these cards for free but that's not me.
If you accept Paypal, why not just use the "print label" from the item page from Ebay which will redirect you to Paypal, and Paypal will print out the packing slip. Paypal only charges you .14 cents for delivery confirmation compared to .50 if you took the package to the PO yourself. Also, if you ship anything Priority, deliver confirmation is FREE from Paypal.
I never send an envelope that I can cause to be 3/4" thick, without
buying the DC. I insert a styro peanut or a piece of paper-towel to
fatten the pack up.
I insure every item. Cheap stuff, I self insure and deposit $1.00 in my
"insurance jar." Expensive stuff, I use USPS insurance. The insurance
jar will make a nice holiday bonus for those who choose to try it out.
Once your insurance jar has a few-hundred in it, you will no longer
worry about a few lost cards.
Notwithstanding any disclaimers that we see on eBay listings, the
seller is responsible to assure that purchased items are delivered.
In this case, you will have to pay the guy. Depending on his FB, you
should probably consider blocking him. Somebody who will burn you
for $20.00 will also burn you for $20K.
Stuff can get lost in the mail; but, not often.
On the news last night, a disgruntled carrier was caught on camera
"unloading" his bins at his station by throwing them into the delivery
bay. Thosuands of pieces of mail and parcels scattered all over the
loading area. The guy was having a bad day. Today, he is looking
for new employment. USPS horror stories are few and far between.
They still provide one of the only govt services that is actually worthwhile.
storm
Yup, I always laugh when I see "not responsible for lost or damage mail if not insured" and yet they accept Paypal.
If paypal is used...a DC is needed to prove delivery. Or they can just file a claim and get the $$$ back anyways.
If they pay by any others means and don't pay for insurance....their loss!! (start arguaments here folks)....but 1st listen to reason...
The seller is obligated by Ebay to deliver goods...yah yah yah..but in the real world...they are obligated to conduct business in a reasonable manner. If they can prove they mailed the package (ie receipt with a zip code...and reasonable doubt it given to assure that they did mail it)...then they should be off the hook!! A seller cannot be responsible to guarantee delivery..because contractually..once he passes off to the USPS...it is in their hands...not his...and he cannot 100% guarantee that it will get done...unless he delivers it to the door himself!!
We pass stuff off to the USPS on "good faith" that it gets delivered..
The buyer who doesn't pay for insurance does so in "good faith" of BOTH the seller and USPS to make the delivery.
I'd love to see a case like this on People's Court.....1st off the seller did everything in his power that he should have....he wasn't paid to do anything more...he in good faith provided his service.
The seller didn't ask for anything else..therefore, assumed a little risk..but yet agreed in good faith that they would deliver. The seller did everything to complete the deal....case closed.
It's not up to the dealers to have to pay extra to CYA all the time..
THAT'S the real world....not cyber Ebay and Paypal crapolla!!
Now we all have to protect ourselves against scammers...at our costs?? Someone needs to step up and sue Ebay and Paypal to stop this.....and I don't think that day is far off!!
So...if you really like your feedback....it's in your best interest to play nice with the guy. Make him some offer...50%...$20 credit towards another card (insure it!!)......or a full refund. Either way, it still eats at you to think you've been had.
I'm going through a similar issue with a customer who bought several candles from my wife. 6 days after the auction ended, he sent a nasty email asking where his stuff was..and that it had been long enough. When we replied back asking what his problem was..he simply said, "sorry, I got my emails mixed up..that was for someone else..payment on it's way" ***Signal #1***
About 4 days later his check comes in...UNSIGNED.....so we send him an email and pop it back in the mail to him. He replies back with attitude and says to just sign it and deposit it..his friends do it for him all the time. ***SCAMMER signal #2***
About 10 days go by and we receive payment again...his order went out Priority Mail Aug. 3. Flate rate box to CA from MA..we charged him $7.50 with optional $1.35 insurance (took a little off as it was multiple wins..actual cost $9.00 to ship..uninsured).
He paid for his lot..plus S&H but refused insurance....***gut feeling #3...I should just pay for it after signals #1+#2........
I get an email yesterday..telling me that I should start an insurance investigation..as his package hadn't been delivered yet!!!
Dude never paid for insurance in the 1st place....so ^%$@##%^^^#%him!!
Now my gut tells me..he does this all the time...seeing the other email..and just his manner in how he handles things. My gut says he got the package...saw it wasn't insured and is now trying to pull something seeing Ebay makes it so easy for crooks to do!!
NO INSURANCE.....not responsible.......
I've already left postive feedback for him....if he negs her account then the war starts!! I can play the 1001 Ways to Mess and Ebay account up too....his will be dirt in weeks!!
It just kills me that the honest people are the ones paying for Ebay and Paypal policies of caitering to the crooks!!
Big deal...so she gets and item not recieved notice..there's bigger things in life to worry about...
can do is give strikes and suspend accounts.
PayPal can steal sellers' money.
Prevailing in an eBay dispute is far from impossible
for a seller with eBay as the arbitrator. A win for the
seller on PayPal requires near perfect paperwork.
The OP here said he "did not offer insurance." That
can be a problem with both eBay and PayPal. Neither
outfit has said that a seller must pay to "insure" an item.
But, a buyer will almost always win with eBay if "no insurance
was offered." If the insurance was offered and "declined"
eBay will generally not strike the seller.
(I do not agree with that policy, but that is how eBay plays it.)
At PayPal, the insurance issue on cheap stuff is sort of
moot because if the buyer claims he did not get the
item, the seller need only produce the DC ticket; UNLESS
the value is more than $250.00, in which case PayPal
shifts a big burden onto the seller and wants to know
if the seller is an idiot for shipping something valuable
without insurance. The DC alone will not save the seller
at PayPal if the item was worth over $250.00.
When a buyer complains to eBay or PayPal, both outfits
look at his "record." If it looks like he is a serial INR guy,
both places will take that into account.
When you get to phase 3, the seller is at a big disadvantage.
If the buyer complains to the CC company, sellers can be in
for a rough ride. Sellers can and do prevail with the CC cos,
but the burden is high. Sellers can use the PayPal docs to
defend against the CC cos, and PayPal will issue a written
satement that supports the seller, if the seller prevailed
in the PayPal phase of the fight.
When I price my junk, I just add a bit to cover the S+H+DC+INS.
That way, I can say, "Free S&H with Delivery Confirmation and
Insurance." That policy removes S&H as a potential profit center
for me (bad), and it keeps me out of disputes (VERY good).
In a non-PayPal deal, the seller can adopt any position that he
wants to on these disputes. eBay cannot steal your money.
In a PayPal deal, sellers better hope they can prove the item
was delivered, and "explain" why it was not insured. PayPal can
steal your money and give it to a crook.
eBay is the devil. I love eBay.
storm
<< <i>A seller cannot be responsible to guarantee delivery..because contractually..once he passes off to the USPS...it is in their hands...not his...and he cannot 100% guarantee that it will get done...unless he delivers it to the door himself!!
We pass stuff off to the USPS on "good faith" that it gets delivered..
The buyer who doesn't pay for insurance does so in "good faith" of BOTH the seller and USPS to make the delivery. >>
If you hire a contractor to put a new roof on your house and then that guy hires a 3rd party to actually to do the work but that guy skips town, would you sue the contractor you hired? Of course. But wait, you didn't buy "insurance" to guarantee the guy lives up to his end. Would you still sue? Of course. That's exactly the situation with shipping a package, only a different context. The buyer doesn't get to choose which shipping service the seller is using, do they? No. So how can you say the buyer is somehow under any kind of obligation?
The buyer is NEVER under ANY obligation whatsoever to pay extra for insurance - or anything else - to ensure that their item is delivered. As soon as you agree to sell an item to them, you are promising delivery. That's the way it works. If it worked otherwise, ask yourself this - if a package really IS lost AND insurance was purchased, why does the money go to the seller? Answer: It doesn't work otherwise and the money goes to the seller because insurance protects SELLERS not buyers.
Tabe
seller because insurance protects SELLERS not buyers."
////////////////////////////////////////
That is an ABSOLUTE FACT !
That is why the eBay scheme is all messed-up. They have got
sellers actually believing that "once it leaves my hands" they
are not responsible. It ONLY works like that under some
interpretations of the eBay policies....... NOT in the real world.
That is why buyers just do not understand eBay selllers'
contentions on the issue to the contrary.
Preventing these controversies is the easiest thing in the world
to do. If sellers fail to con buyers out of the insurance fee with
the goofy disclaimers, the sellers simply need to buy the insurance
or set up a fund and self-insure.
storm
1st and foremost..contractors are required to carry insurance for that very reason..you're comparing apples and oranges. The state mandates that they have it..to protect the BUYER...
If you're naive enough to hire some scab without insurance to roof your house and he skips town....that's your fault...
As fo the buyers "obligation"..he knew by bidding on this item how it would be shipped...if he wanted it done a certain way..or didn't agree to the terms...they wouldn't have bought the item in the 1st place. By bidding..he agreed in faith in the sellers abilty to mail the package.
The buyer is NEVER under ANY obligation whatsoever to pay extra for insurance - or anything else - to ensure that their item is delivered. As soon as you agree to sell an item to them, you are promising delivery. That's the way it works. If it worked otherwise, ask yourself this - if a package really IS lost AND insurance was purchased, why does the money go to the seller? Answer: It doesn't work otherwise and the money goes to the seller because insurance protects SELLERS not buyers.
That's in the Ebay world...we promise to do everything in our power to make sure the package gets delivered. Lost mail is out of our control.
As for the seller getting the money back with a claim..that's because he already should have..in good faith..refunded the buyer!! ONCE the article was proven lost.
They already have the money...they sold their item..were paid..did their part...now if it's lost..he can send the buyer a refund.
I KNOW..I KNOW..what if the buyer didn't purchase it....in the real world...tough!!
As a reputable dealer, if I purchase insurance and an item goes missing....the buyer will still get the refund..because I had the foresite to do so.
There are people who will argue that the insurance money could be kept..as the buyer didn't pay for it...you did....
Double dipping..that's some...not me....
Again...the Ebay world and the Paypal world run by different rules than the rest of society.
the buyer will still get the refund..because I had the foresite to do so.
There are people who will argue that the insurance money could be kept..
as the buyer didn't pay for it...you did....Double dipping..that's some...not me....
Again...the Ebay world and the Paypal world run by different rules than the rest of society.
////////////////////////////////////////////////
Believe it or not, eBay and PayPal both DO have to deal with nitwit
sellers who claim that they should get to keep the insurance claim
money - and the purchase money - because they paid for the insurance!!!!!!!!!!
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Send a short but blunt email. "I know you received the card and I am contacting the police in _his town_ today. See you in court."
Let it soak in and I'd bet ya you'll receive a reply in a day or so. "Hi, your card finally showed up. Leaving positive feedback." (Noone likes to sh!t in their own backyard)
PS, I _always_ use Del Conf and build it into the cost. Then again, I rarely sell items less than $10. Sold hundreds, lost none.
Good Luck
<< <i>Big Daddy, Try this...
Send a short but blunt email. "I know you received the card and I am contacting the police in _his town_ today. See you in court."
>>
NO......................and I will leave it at that...
1955 Bowman Raw complete with 90% Ex-NR or better
Now seeking 1949 Eureka Sportstamps...NM condition
Working on '78 Autographed set now 99.9% complete -
Working on '89 Topps autoed set now complete
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
<< <i>Big Daddy, Try this...
Send a short but blunt email. "I know you received the card and I am contacting the police in _his town_ today. See you in court."
>>
One of Life's Rules:
Never threaten legal action unless you are prepared to carry out that threat.
In my state it's $75 just to file a petition in small claims court.
Refund the buyer his money and block him as jimq says. Forget about it. Maybe it did get lost in the mail, maybe you got ripped off. Believe the former happened.
There are greater things in life to worry about. If that's not the case in your life, then you really need to take more risks.
<< <i>The buyer is NEVER under ANY obligation whatsoever to pay extra for insurance - or anything else - to ensure that their item is delivered. As soon as you agree to sell an item to them, you are promising delivery. That's the way it works. If it worked otherwise, ask yourself this - if a package really IS lost AND insurance was purchased, why does the money go to the seller? Answer: It doesn't work otherwise and the money goes to the seller because insurance protects SELLERS not buyers >>
NOT ALWAYS TRUE !!! FOB my "dock" means you own it and are responsible when the item goes on a common carries or a shipping service! Selling on eBay is not different.
and you're right....once the customer delivers the item and you take possesion of it...it's on your head if it gets lost/damaged and the customer can prove that you had it..the costs would come out of the trucking company...not the seller...
Reverse the scenario say the buyer had mailed the payment to you, but you never got it. You would not just ship the item on their word that they sent the payment would you?? You would expect the buyer to resend payment. Buyers have a right to expect the same thing from sellers.
If you use Paypal and you cannot afford to lose the item and the money you better protect yourself with DC. I usually do not use it on items under 10.00, but will when I feel uneasy about the buyer.
Never accept Paypal for more than you can afford to lose. I would never accept Paypal for an item over 50.00 just for the reason that it is too easy for a seller to end up losing the item and the money through Paypal even if you follow the SPP to the letter.
Here is how I handled it, thanks for all of the advice:
Eric,
I was hoping the package would have arrived since the last email. I contacted the USPS and they said that they can confirm my paying for and shipping to you, but cannot confirm your receipt of the package without insurance or delivery confirmation.
We both have 100 percent positive feedback on Ebay, and I would like to think that I can believe in good faith that you indeed did not receive the card, and in turn I would hope that you would believe that I did indeed ship the card to you. Since we have both paid for shipping charges (and I am out of a card and/or the selling price) and I had to pay ebay selling fee and paypal selling fees, I think the fair compromise to this is that I offer to refund the total selling price. If this is acceptable to you, please email your address so I can send the refund.
He emailed me back stating that it was acceptable to him to refund just the bid amount.....................then....................I get a follow-up email a few hours later from him saying that the card arrived today! Pretty surprising since I mailed it out over 3 weeeks ago! Talk about snail mail...or maybe he gained a conscience....who knows, but I am very please that the ordeal is over.
Ryan
View Vintage Football Cards For Sale
Again though that to be protected by Paypal in these cases you have to be able to prove DELIVERY of the item not just that you shipped it. DC is the cheapest and easiest way to satisfy this problem.
>
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He replied that night, saying he mailed June 20th with a Postal money order..but to speed things up..he would Paypal me..and if the other showed to let him know. His card went out the next day, July 8th.
I hadn't heard or seen a thing and then last week a letter arrives. It was his original payment...post marked JUNE 20th...and inside his Postal Money order from JUNE 20th. A FULL two months later..
On the bottom of the envelope front and back..there was black sharpie lines running across the envelope.
I brought it to my local post office and asked if they could tell me why it was delayed so long and what the marks had meant. The bar codes that were blacked out showed that the envelope had been rerouted through Chicago..atleast twice...maybe even a 3rd time...but it was hard to tell with so much sharpie on the outside.
They said that an mechanical sorter must have just kept sending it to the wrong place..for whatever reason...and that the only reason it finally got there was because the faulty bar codes on the envelope were finally blacked out.
I emailed the buyer right away..sent him all the information and asked how he wanted to proceed. Seeing he hadn't filed anything on the money order..as he put it "it was in my things to do pile"...I simply went to the PO..cashed the money order and then came home and refunded him the Paypal payment that he had sent.
So it does happen....ever so often.
But he appreciated the efforts...an has placed other bids on my stuff since then.