Feedback for Buyers/Sellers

XanaduNow

Something in another thread made me think and I didn't want to hijack that thread so I'm posting here.

Does anyone else have an issue with Sellers who do not leave feedback upon receiving payment? If I win an auction I almost always pay immediately with PayPal a minute or two after auction end. Haven't I completed my end of the agreement we entered when I won the auction? Yet many sellers wait until they receive feedback from the buyer before responding with their own.

Why?

To protect themselves in the event they do not completed their end of the agreement? I think that's a load of bull. I'll make it case to not leave any feedback on a seller if they're waiting for me to do it first as a buyer. The entire idea of retaliatory feedback is one of the things that is ruining eBay. Bad buyers and bad sellers are getting away with murder on the bay and it's because people are afraid of the retaliatory feedback. If someone doesn't give me positive feedback as a buyer after I pay in full and immediately following the end of the auction than I will at no point give them feedback and will cease to buy from them.

Just my $0.02

Arthur

Elemenopeo

This subject seems to come up with great regularity on this forum. Here is one thread that evolved into that discussion, but I don't think it's even the most recent.

grote15

The whole concept of feedback on ebay is fundamentally flawed and usually offers little in the way of any real evidence of how reputable a buyer or seller is. This topic has been discussed ad nauseam on these boards and both sides have very valid points. There are many sellers who use feedback as extortion against the buyer if he or she has a complaint and that's not right, but there are many cases where buyers will leave unfounded and irresponsible feedback against sellers, too, so that's why many sellers are choosing to not to leave feedback first.

262Runner

I used to agree with you completely, however I have had change of heart.

Sellers have many reasons not to give feedback as soon as payment has arrived. The number one answer in my mind is simply because of unethical buyers. Many buyers (mainly raw cards) use ebay as a way to preview cards looking for that Vintage PSA 9 or 10. They buy commons for $3 each or less expecting a PSA 8 or 9 quality card they can flip for HUNDREDS. When the ExMt card arrives they send you angry emails demanding full refunds or negative feedback will be left, even though the card was accurately described.

This is only the raw example, I have had the same thing happen to me with graded cards, the buyer wanted to return a card because it "was not centered well enough for a PSA 8", It was a PSA 8. Theatened with negative feedback again.

Both cases I gave full refunds including shipping and was given Neutral feedback on one and no feedback on the other.

For every bad seller you list, I'm sure we could find 3 bad buyers. My blocked bidder list is much longer than the list of sellers I will not buy from.



262

grote15

For every bad seller you list, I'm sure we could find 3 bad buyers. My blocked bidder list is much longer than the list of sellers I will not buy from.

Very true.

EagleEyeKid

Here we go again.

storm888

As I have said many times........

When a seller and buyer each assume the other to
be acting in good faith to complete an online deal,
it can ONLY be said that the buyer has done his part
when he pays promptly. Thus, the seller must leave
FB to acknowledge payment, and hope that the buyer
will continue to act in good faith.

There is no question that it is spooky for sellers to trust
that the buyer will continue to "act right." Recently, I
have started getting more spooked as new buyers come
on the scene.

I am very close to the point that I have enough repeat
customers to get off of the public venues. But, I still need
those venues to display the stuff. And, I certainly like new
customers with money to spend. So, I am sorta stuck.

Way more than 50% of my deals happen off-line with
customers that I earned online. Any seller with reasonable
prices and excellent service should be able to convert their
online customers fairly rapidly.

All of the folks around here are excellent buyers and sellers.
I can, however, tell you that there are a WHOLE LOT MORE
filthy-evil-rotten buyers than there are bad sellers on eBay.

My combined eBay and other online venue transactions in
ONLY the collectible stores are over 3,000 in the past four-
years. ALL of therm have been either splendid or "OK."
That is just an element of luck and grace.

My family's online stores, where I often help out and watch,
have done more than 250,000 transactions on eBay alone
during the past 8-years. They do not do collectibles, and
have multiple eBay stores. I would say that less than 90%
of their transactions are "trouble free." Their FB in some
stores routinely goes into the low 90s because of buyers
who have unreasonable expectations about the used
rags (clothing) that my family "specializes" in. A few
of their most profitable stores have had FB below 90%
at one time or another. (Folks who buy used clothes
for their children are even pickier than the ones who buy
raw trading cards.) FB in that biz is not as critical as it
is in collectibles. Rag shoppers buy price, and once they
get a decent box full, they tend to be fairly loyal. For
those that are not so loyal, they end up at the other
stores that are owned by the same folks they just left
a neg for.

The point of the rag story is that my family of gypsy rag
sellers, ALWAYS leaves POS FB when they get paid, and
they never respond to the NEGs publicly. (They even have
some customers who have NEGed them for the past five
years when they get a "bad box." Those customers keep
buying and leave POS FB when they feel like they "stole
something.")

Anyway, I always leave FB first.

storm

storm888

"Here we go again."




But, I did not start it.

lawnmowerman

jimq112

As a buyer when I get my stuff I leave feedback and if I haven't gotten feedback yet I send a nice reminder. I only have 20 so every one matters.

If I don't get fb in the next few days the seller's name goes on a card next to my monitor. They'll never see my $ again.

But I agree it's scary to leave fb first as a seller. Way too many thieves and scammers on ebay. So I don't expect feedback first from a seller.

If a seller leaves me + fb first, I figure they are confident in the product they are selling and the service they are providing, and I move them into my "favorite sellers" file.

bishop

I do not care much when the seller gives feedback, as long as they give it and do not tell me upfront they have some rule that I have to go first. I have given a lot more feedback than I have gotten.

Griffins

I use feedback as one of my checklists to see where I"m at in the transaction.
If I'm the seller I leave feedback right after I make out the deposit slip for the payment- or when I get the paypal notification. The buyer has done his job in getting the payment to me. It also helps to notify the buyer that payment has been received and the item is on its way.
As a buyer I leave feedback as soon as I receive the package. If I have a problem I either don't leave feedback or I contact the seller. The list of items I haven't left feedback for is the list of items I haven't received.
It always irks me when a seller says they only leave feedback after getting same. I've never had a good seller do that, and it often is the first sign that they may not be all they seem.

Hub

This topic has been debated to death, but it's worth repeating.

Once a buyer pays for an item, they have fulfilled their end of the bargain and deserve positive feedback. End of story.

Not only does this make sense, it makes CENTS (and dollars too). You sellers out there who hold feebdack hostage have no idea the amount of sales you are missing out on. I've taken a sabbatical from selling, but I can assure you that my sales volume (and high bid per sale) was directly attributable to my feedback policy. I used to receive numerous e-mails from folks who told me the only reason they bought from me was because of my feedback policy. Although it's impossible to calculate, I estimate I made double what another seller in my circumstances would have made if they played the wait and see game. Maybe triple.

I try to avoid sellers who do this but sometimes it's hard to tell. I completely avoid sellers who actually state it in the terms of their auction. They may as well post: "I am a shady seller and you are taking your chances that I will actually deliver the item advertised. I might also steal your money and insult your Mom."

Yes, yes I understand that some buyers play games. And as a general rule all I sell is raw. But if you're honest (I went overboard downplaying the condition of the cards I sold) and mail things out quickly (that's the other can't miss selling strategy that so many sellers don't do), you won't get feedback extortionists. I'm living proof of that. I have over 5200 positive feedbacks and just 3 negs. (one neg. from a seller). And I always leave feedback first.

Bottom line is this. Forget e-bay etiquette. I'm talking increasing your sales. Leave feedback immediately upon receipt of payment. Your bank account will thank you for it. Frankly, when I was selling I was glad most sellers play the wait and see game. Meant more bids for my stuff.

Hub

One last thing.

Buyers love to get feedback as soon as they pay. They LOVE it! I truly believe that leaving feedback first cuts out a lot of the nonsense sellers deal with. Buyers who receive feedback immediately upon paying are much, much less likely to hassle you upon receipt of the item. Sets a great tone for the whole transaction. I'm convinced of that.

storm888

"Sets a great tone for the whole transaction. I'm convinced of that."

////////////////////////////////////////////////

I am too.

If a bad buyer is going to hassle a good seller, the seller
leaving FB first is not going to change that. It will, however,
remove any "leverage" the good seller might have had, but
that is really the only downside.

I do not know if I have mentioned this before, but I also
use FB to help me keep track of when I have shipped an
item. In my stores "policies" sections, I let folks know that
I leave FB "as soon as the item is shipped." I ship the day
of payment or the day after payment.

Sample FB = " Instant Payment ! Item Mailed 8-27-06. Thank You !!!"
(I then delete the item(s) from the "Items I have Sold" section
in MyeBay. If I have a question about the item, I look it up
in FB left for others.

Good buyers are put at ease when they get that FB upon
payment/shipping. A bad buyer is going to mess with you
anyway, so all the withholding does is risk making the
good buyer mad or uncomfortable. Both of which are
bad for business.

storm

GOODLIEU

I would say that about 70% percent of my collections are from doing business on EBAY and despite its shortcomings it is probably the best thing out there for finding things. As a buyer my biggest concern is the transaction itself. I always pay promptly and honestly could care less if feedback is left or not. I am a product of a generation that when making purchases from Ads or newspapers had to wait 4-6 weeks to receive these items and if it was not as advertised spent countless hours trying to get a refund so EBAY is definitely a step up. The EBAY feedback system as Grote stated is flawed and in my opinion the who goes first argument will never be answered to any ones total satisfaction.

jskirwin

Once a buyer pays for an item, they have fulfilled their end of the bargain and deserve positive feedback. End of story.

And what if that buyer cancels his payment after receiving the item, thereby causing a chargeback?

sando69

james-
how is that done?
i've had to file claims/chargebacks with paypal, but have always had to prove my claim.
am becoming an ebay/paypal seller soon & need to be educated...
what are the tricks to be aware of?
thanks

Hub

Jsk,

Over 5000 transactions and no one has ever done that to me.

Someone could pull that whether you left them feedback or not.

It could happen, but it's not worth the exponential increase in sales you miss out on.

-Hub

grote15

Frankly, I see no difference in realized prices when comparing the closing bid prices of auctions listed by sellers who leave FB first and those who don't. I think most buyers are far more concerned with receiving the item quickly and as described than they are with the sellers feedback policy.

pandrews

as a seller, i wont leave feedback first unless i know the buyer.. there are too many mentally handicapped people on ebay..

plus its just easier..

as a buyer, i always leave feedback as soon as i get my card, regardless of whether or not the seller has left feedback for me..

pandrews

<< <i>Once a buyer pays for an item, they have fulfilled their end of the bargain and deserve positive feedback. End of story.

And what if that buyer cancels his payment after receiving the item, thereby causing a chargeback? >>



exactly.

case in point, two scumbags by the names of GAIL and JACOB JULIANO (ebay ID:jacobj5610).. (no, im not the one that left neg feedback for them, that's someone else)

they bought 2 cards from me, each 2 weeks apart, totalling $100..

2 months after the fact, and after they've received the cards, they file a chargeback with their credit card company.. paypal takes $100 from me.. now i dont have my cards or money, and GAIL AND JACOB JULIANO scumbags have both the cards and the money..

holy crap am i glad i didnt leave them some stupid positive feedback.. "quick payment, A++++ transaction" yeah right, my ass.. i'd leave them negative feedback now but theyre NARU..

i found out a few days ago that these low-life scumbags did the same thing to a seller on another message board i'm on..

bishop

"mentaly hadicapped buyers"....Darn. I have been outed

pandrews

<< <i>"mentaly hadicapped buyers"....Darn. I have been outed >>



i wasnt going to mention your name, Al..