1960 Fleer Pepper Martin - Cancelled vs. Uncancelled

tkd7

Is there any known reason for the cancelled versions of the Pepper Martin cards for this set? Did they make it into distribution or did they find another route out of the factory?

mikeschmidt

<< <i>Is there any known reason for the cancelled versions of the Pepper Martin cards for this set? Did they make it into distribution or did they find another route out of the factory? >>



I don't know if anyone truly knows.

There are three versions, as you may know. Eddie Collins, Joe Tinker and Lefty Grove on the front. I think the Grove is the "easiest" of the three. I think that a number of these that have been seen in the hobby appear to be handcut, which would lead one to believe they were not distributed. That said - I think there are perhaps two or three that are cancelled that appear to have been distributed someway, somehow back in the day. And I think that there are one or two that are not cancelled but appear to have been distributed just like the rest of the set.

For what it is worth, PSA has graded a total of nine examples of the Pepper Martin card [one Tinker and four each of the other two]. Six are included on the PSA Registry. I am hoping that our resident experts, including Griffins who is the proud owner of one of the cards, can add a little more clarity to my very limited understanding.

tkd7

I did notice that 707 Sportscards has all three versions in his registry set.

bishop

I think everything mikeschmidt says is on target. I have one of the Grove's I bought from a dealer some years ago. The "regular" three front variations all sold in one of the major auction 2 or 3 years back. Maybe Levi was the buyer, not sure. One of the Grove's sold on ebay less than a year ago and went for less than I expected, although it was ungraded and a little dinged. The one I have does appear to be hand cut

digicat

What's the difference between the cancelled and uncancelled versions?

Griffins

Cancelled has a big notch taken out of the bottom. PSA does not downgrade for this, and I think they should. There is a Collins out there that is really ugly cancelled.
Levi's are handcut (as were most) and graded "authentic". Grove is the easiest, Collins and Tinker seem a bit tougher.
I have a copy of The Trader Speaks from '75 or '76 when these were discovered. IMO it is one of the toughest post war cards, ranking up there with the Pepsi Bateman, Leaf Big Heads, and '61 Dice Game.


I bought mine raw off ebay for $1000. a few years ago- there were no other bidders. It is oversized. There was one that sold on Ebay last December that I missed, I think it was a 4. I believe mine is the highest graded of the 3 that is not cancelled. A cancelled Collins sold in a private sale a few years ago for about 9K, but I think the buyer got hosed. 3 hand cut ones that later were graded authentic went for about 3500. each in Lipset 3-4 years ago. SMR is way, way off base on this variation.

tkd7

Thanks for the info. It is a set that I have been thinking about starting so I'm curious about the variations.

BTW, I think there is a scan of the cancelled version on the on-line SMR, but I don't have access to it now as I'm waiting to renew my PSA subscription.

Griffins

Tom-
That is the cancelled one I spoke about. If I recall correctly, Keppler sold it for about 9K a few years ago. Notice the gouge at the bottom center- while I haven't counted the pixels it would seem OC as well. I don't understand why a cancelled card doesn't get some sort of qualifier- at the very least an MK.

bishop

Maybe they view "canceled" as the qualifier

Griffins

In the pop reports it's under a separate line for Eddie Collins Cancelled.

bishop

Well....at least you have to love that face

bobsbbcards

Maybe there was an obscenity written after the "e" in Eddie. Fleer has a history of notching cards with obscenities.

tkd7

Anthony,
It's interesting that your flip doesn't mention Martin, the others that I've seen all seem to mention him in some way. PSA seems to be all over the board on this one, I guess since so few come through. To me, the cancelled version should be graded as authentic.

digicat

What was the point of "cancelling" the cards? Why not just outright destroy the card?

Griffins

It's a guess, but I"m betting that they weren't supposed to be issued, and while a few got into packs (from previous reports I've read) and the remaining ones were only distributed once they had been cancelled by Fleer. The hand cut ones were probably cut from sheets or scrap sheets.
I went thru the Nov 2000 Mastro catalog tonite, a raw, cancelled Collins in what they state as Ex condition sold for $2669. A Tinker in PSA 6 (it too was cancelled) sold for $3978.
The copy on both lots state that all #80's can only be found cancelled, which is not true. None of Levi's 3 different ones are cancelled, nor is the one I own.

bishop

Nor mine, and Anthony could be right, but I think Bob is on to something with his obscenity theory. I wonder what it was.

bobsbbcards

...it was a simpler time.