A-Rod vs. Sheffeild: fans perception

MantleMarisFordBerra

Intersting story on SI.com:

Let's get this straight: Alex Rodriguez gets ripped like Dean Martin at closing time for casually mentioning that he has played hurt this season -- and those close to A-Rod say he weathered a nagging groin injury and food poisoning in Detroit -- and yet his long-sidelined teammate Gary Sheffield gets a pass for publicly pledging he won't play through pain?

A-Rod's history shows he almost never takes a day off, while Sheffield has missed about three years with injuries.

Rodriguez should never have spoken about playing hurt, because, as his advisers tell him, he's A-Rod and he plays. But it's hard to blame him for trying to win a little sympathy considering how badly he's been getting hammered by the New York press and fans this season.

You'd think it would be hard to hammer Rodriguez for a few harmless remarks in the midst of a frustrating season. As it turns out, it wasn't. A-Rod must have felt as if he'd been hit by a steel-plated rod. His revelation that he's been hurting was met by another round of criticism. He continues to be held to the highest standard imaginable.

Maybe it's not what you say, but who says it. About the same time Rodriguez made his comments, Sheffield (who has produced 22 fewer home runs and 74 fewer RBIs than A-Rod this year) publicly vowed not to play until he feels 100 percent. And no one criticized Sheffield. He continues not to be held to any standard.

Judging by the reaction to the respective stars, it's apparently more admirable not to play through pain than it is to play through pain and mention it. Pu-leeeze.

Rodriguez's own manager, Joe Torre, didn't help matters by acting like he didn't know about his superstar player's pain, which is entirely possible considering A-Rod's stoicism. Still, Torre's failure to back up Rodriguez made A-Rod look like he was reaching for excuses, when the fact is he surely did play in pain. Just like he's always done.

Speaking of pains, there is Sheffield, who received not one scintilla of negative feedback for announcing last week that he was looking out for himself, as usual. "I have to worry about me," Sheffield said. "I'm not in a hurry [to get back]."

Sheffield talked about how anxious he was to grab a first baseman's mitt and help where he can. But as one clubhouse source observed, "He's like Tony Curtis -- a bad actor." Maybe so, but he's convinced more than a few.

While Sheffield hasn't done anything so wrong as throw balls away on purpose (not since Milwaukee, anyway, his first of six stops), he should be rung up for his overt lack of interest in his team. When he said, "My plan isn't short-term, it's long-term," he was talking about his life after the Yankees, the team that pays him $13 million annually.

"Sheffield thinks the Yankees [bleeped] him,'' said one Yankees clubhouse source, referring to their tide-turning deadline trade for Bobby Abreu, who took Sheffield's place in right field.

Sheffield's anger is misdirected. Doctors told the team that Sheffield's wrist might not be healed until September. They had no choice but to find a replacement. The fact that they found a great one isn't the fault of the Yankees.

Sheffield's attitude stinks, a fact no one ever mentions. His free pass continues. It's like nobody remembers he took steroids, either. (Sheffield told SI's Tom Verducci in October 2004 that he unknowingly took the Clear and the Cream and has denied allegations in the book Game of Shadows that he took injectable testosterone and human growth hormone.) The only difference between Sheffield and his ex-workout partner Barry Bonds is that Bonds is closing in on an all-time record. Yet there's no criticism for Sheffield, no investigation involving Sheffield, no feds chasing Sheffield.

It's a wonder the media cut him so much slack. Maybe they fear Sheffield. Or maybe they fear losing him as a quote; you never know what he might say next.

The team's strategy is understandable and sound: Ignore him and hope he goes away quietly. And believe me, he's going to go. The team surely will reject his $13 million option, and Sheffield has to know this by now.

Now Sheffield is telling people in the Yankees clubhouse that he'd love to play for the Red Sox or the Mets, two big-market teams who may have an interest. Sheffield apparently does love New York. And why wouldn't he? In the supposedly tough town, no one's called him on anything yet. Some suggest he has selected those two teams as targets merely to get back at the Yankees, but if that's the case, it won't have the desired effect. While the Yankees won't reveal their intentions, they'll be happy if he goes quietly.

ToppsCo1lector

Read that today too. Sheff got hurt, Errod made an excuse. There is a big difference between playing hurt and talking about it, then just playing hurt. MANY MANY MANY player played hurt. Don't make an excuse, just play the game.


The writer is very __-esque(insert name of this boards Errod-rider).

Axtell

Great points all around, and the mentioning of Arod speaks volumes.

Why is a bum like sheff not even mentioned in the press, yet a guy like Arod, who I think anyone would want their kid to emulate, gets absolutely crushed daily?

Yet another reason to despise the ny media.

Axtell

<< <i>Read that today too. Sheff got hurt, Errod made an excuse. There is a big difference between playing hurt and talking about it, then just playing hurt. MANY MANY MANY player played hurt. Don't make an excuse, just play the game. >>



The article obviously flew completely over your head.

ToppsCo1lector

"But it's hard to blame him for trying to win a little sympathy considering how badly he's been getting hammered by the New York press and fans this season."

He made an excuse for his shoddy play this season, plain and simple.

Axtell

<< <i>"But it's hard to blame him for trying to win a little sympathy considering how badly he's been getting hammered by the New York press and fans this season."

He made an excuse for his shoddy play this season, plain and simple. >>



No he didn't dope...he simply mentioned he'd been playing through an injury, hardly making excuses.

Where's your outrage over sheffield coming back when he's 'ready' and not a minute sooner? Where's your outrage over sheffield producing tons less this year than Arod, while making tons of bucks? Where's your outrage over sheffield, period?

Again, this article flew completely over your head.

ToppsCo1lector

Sheff has been on the shelf, that's the reason Errod has outproduced him. The Yankees did just fine in keeping up with the Sox with both Sheff and Godzilla out, and now they are leading their division by 6.5 games. Why come back before his ready? He's on the DL and the Yankees are in first, why push for him to come back before he's ready? It's been said for MONTHS that AT BEST Sheff will be back mid to late September.

bri2327

I could give a rats a$$ what Sheffield says. I didnt even read the full article and didnt have to. I for one cant stand the guy, think he is a cheating weasel who i cant wait to be gone from the Yankees. No matter how much I rip Arod I have 10x more respect for him than I have ever or will ever have for Sheffield.

This whole " playing good soldier " and grabbing a 1st basemans glove is a complete joke. Sheffield is a con artist who knows damn well he is completely dispensible and has no contract for next year. He is doing whatever he can to make sure he looks good so another payday can come his way.

Arod most definately was making excuses to try and win sympathy. On the other hand, he still deserves tons more respect than Sheffield. That juiced up criminal has gotten a free pass in NY for too long.

Note to Gary, shut your mouth. You are a cheater and a low life. We dont want you, we dont need you. You cant leave town fast enough.

ctsoxfan

The article doesn't really tell me anything new about Sheffield's attitude. He was a jerk in 1989 when he came in to MLB, and he's consistently been a jerk ever since. Only saving grace for him is that he can hit with amazing power - even his outs are loud. But, for him to say he's not coming back until he's good and ready - that's just typical, and selfish, of him.

Of course, jerk though he may be - can you imagine Ortiz, Ramirez, and Sheffield - 3,4,5 in the lineup? Interesting....

ToppsCo1lector

BTW, like many can Attest I want Sheff off the team anyway for being a roid boy. I've said it before(and this season it's damn true) we don't need him, or want him. I'm just glad that Godzilla is continuing with his workouts, he's the guy I want to come back.

Skinpinch

Two things:

1) Sheffield is a clown and a jerk. How this guy got away without any punishment whatsover when he admitted to making throwing errors on purpose(while in Milwaukee), is beyond me. This is right after the Pete Rose debacle as well. Here Rose gets banned on suspicion and iffy propositions, and Sheffield is actually tanking plays(which is basically throwing games) on purpose, and he gets nothing.

2) There is a lot to be said for a MLB who can get to the starting gate every game. Guys like Sheffield can only be classied as what Russell Zitsky called the Russians on the cover of the magazine!

grote15

Why come back before his ready? He's on the DL and the Yankees are in first, why push for him to come back before he's ready? It's been said for MONTHS that AT BEST Sheff will be back mid to late September.

Topps,

Sheff has no class and has no loyalty to the Yankees or his teammates. His only concern is Gary Sheffield and he's a total waste of payroll this season. I find it curious though how you defend him above but then do a complete 180 after bri (rightly) criticizes him. Which is it?

softparade

I for one hope Sheffield has already played his last game as a Yankee.

ToppsCo1lector

grote-I've said time and time again(In previsous threads; as others can certainly attest) I don't want Sheff on the team. But, I responded to the critizisms of why he wasn't out there playing when it's been reported for the last couple of months that at best Sheff would return by mid Sept.

grote15

I think you're more concerned with tailoring your argument to the opinions of certain others because your opinion on Sheffield seemed to change remarkably in mid-post. Just my opinion.

ToppsCo1lector

Welp, good thing I know that I've said the same things about Sheff and Giambi(I'd rather they not be on the Yankees) repeatedly, as everyone has an opinion. Of course, you can't show where I flip-flop, yet I could show you MANY posts where I've said I don't want Sheff on the team. Opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one.

bri2327

Topps,

FWIW, I really didnt read the whole debate you had back and forth over Arod/Sheffield, but I can definately attest to you wanting Sheffield gone in numerous other posts.

yankeeno7

ARod is in the field and all eyes are on his performance. With Sheffield, like they say, "Out of sight, out of mind". Sheffield is a selfish bum. I also can not wait until Yankees are rid of him. He has to look like he is willing to do what is necessary so when it comes to signing with a new team he can land a deal with less scrutiny.

I also wonder if nothing is said about Sheffield because he is being written off by the team, fans, and writers? Why even consider him or pay any attention to him? There's a chance he wont even be back this season. Maybe even a better chance that he will WANT to stay injured for the remaining of the season.

I think the author of that article is making a lot of something out of nothing. Time for Sheff boy to move on.

grote15

Why come back before his ready? He's on the DL and the Yankees are in first, why push for him to come back before he's ready?

That statement, made by you, strongly suggests that you think Sheff is entirely justified sitting out until he's "ready" to play. Then after bri posts and says what a bum Sheff is you chime in by saying that Sheff is a total jerk and you don't want him back on the team either. If bri had defended Sheff, you probably would have reiterated your prior comment (above) instead of doing the flip-flop.

ToppsCo1lector

Lol, like I said you can think you know what I said but opinions are like a-holes. I know what I've said in the past, you don't. Bri's opinion has NOTHING to do with mine. Fact is, the Yankees did perfectly well without him; like I already said. The Yankees are in FIRST place without him, like I already said. I've said since he and Giambi ADMITTED to using steroids I hope they aren't on the Yankees much longer, like I've seen numerous other times. You, do not know what your talking about. Also, no where did I state Sheff is a "jerk" and I(and others) know that I personally don't want him on the team. But, he IS on the team. He is justified in not playing now as he is on the DL, just like Matsui is justified.

Think what you want buddy, but you haven't read or participated in previous discussions on this topic. Nor, have you read my opinions that have been unchanged since I first started posting on this board.

ToppsCo1lector

Btw, Thanks Bri.

grote15

Ok topps, thanks for clearing that up.

Axtell

<< <i>BTW, like many can Attest I want Sheff off the team anyway for being a roid boy. I've said it before(and this season it's damn true) we don't need him, or want him. I'm just glad that Godzilla is continuing with his workouts, he's the guy I want to come back. >>



So you have the same opinion of Giambi, right? You want him off the team for being a roid boy, right? Right?

Or do you only want non-producing roid boys off the team? The good hitters can stay?

ToppsCo1lector

Ax-I want both Giambi and Sheff off the team. To me if you did that(steroids, hgh, any similar substance), you should be banned from the game plain and simple.

yankeeno7

IF and that's a big IF....IF Giambi is off the juice, is clean of any of performance enhancing illegal substances, it wouldnt bother me one bit for him to stay a Yankee. He was in an era of rampid steroid use...he isnt the only guilty player by a long shot. He also isnt about to break any major records either. Take his old stats away if you wish. But IF he is off the juice, the guy has shown a lot of heart and coming back to play the way he has. He is obviously more trim which would leave me to believe he is clean.
Sheffield on the other hand...steroids or no steroids....I dont like him and the Yankees will have a better clubhouse without him.

Edited for my bad grammar!

Axtell

<< <i>IF and that's a big IF....IF Giambi is off the juice, is clean of any of performance enhancing illegal substances, it wouldnt bother me one bit for him to stay a Yankee. He was in an era of rampid steroid use...he isnt the only guilty player by a long shot. He also isnt about to break any major records either. Take his old stats away if you wish. But IF he is off the juice, the guy has shown a lot of heart and coming back to play the way he has. He is obviously more trim which would leave me to believe he is clean.
Sheffield on the other hand...steroids or no steroids....I dont like him and the Yankees will have a better clubhouse without him.

Edited for my bad grammar! >>



What a hypocritical crock of chit. It doesn't bother you that gimabi not only cheated to get his big payday from the yankees, but has never publicly admitted to as much? But it doesn't bother you one bit that he stays?

Sheffield, on the other hand, is every bit as guilty, yet, because he's a selfish player, you want him go?

Ridiculous.

yankeeno7

I dont understand what your question is. I think I was quite clear about it.

Yes, Giambi DID admit it. IF Giambi is clean then let him play. I dont care how much the Yankees are paying him. It's their money.

My dislike for Sheffield and my desire for him to move on has nothing to do with steroids or his performace, it has to do with his attitude.

Was that not clear? There was nothing hypocritical about my statement. So you can keep your crock of chit.

You may feel that is ridiculous and I am ok with that

bri2327

For the record, I want Giambi to take the same raft out to sea as Sheffield. I love the game of baseball. Its history, records, and integrity are very important to me. Both of them comprimised that integrity, both of them can get lost.

yankeeno7

Bri,
I know I am the minority when it comes to Giambi. I look at the post steroid era as a "second career". I do however believe their stats should be washed away and continue to be tested every way possible throughout the remaining of their careers.

If Bonds wants to give up 300-400 of his home runs and is clean, I would support that. Problem is that Bonds is at a much different point in his career and would never do that because he is an ass.

I have no problem supporting a player who has become clean and out there giving it his natural all. If steroid use continues they they should be booted out of baseball for life.

Again..that is IF and only IF Giambi is clean. If not, out with the bum!

That's just my opinion as a baseball fan.

Axtell

yankeeno-

throw out the whole steroid issue, then, if you feel the post-steroid era is a second career. Don't even mention it as a reason sheffield should go if you are going to let giambi stay.

You don't like sheffield, plain and simple, and you think he should be gone. Quit trying to rationalize it with 'well he took steroids!'

As far as gimabi admitting and apologizing for taking steroids, uhm, when did that happen? To paraphrase him, he said 'I'm sorry for what happened...under advice from my lawyer I can't say what happened, but I'm sorry for it'.

It makes me sick when people try to defend gimabi for 'admitting' his steroid use when (a) he did no such thing and (b) only did his 'apology' after his grand jury testimony was leaked. Had it not been leaked, he'd never had said a word.

So it's ok he cheated in the past, but now, because he's probably 'clean', he can stay? He CHEATED.

yankeeno7

Axhole
I see everyone telling you that you have no reading comprehension skills and now I truely see it.

Where in the world did I say that Sheffield should go because of his steroid use? I said "steroids or no steroids". I repeated a couple times that it is because of his attitude I would love to see Sheff gone.

I never said it was ok that Giambi cheated. I thought I made it quite clear about only IF Giambi is clean then let him play. He should be forced to have continued, regular testing. My opinion as a Yankees/baseball fan.

You have truly twisted every thing I stated. You know fully well exactly what I mean. Keep playing the antagonizer, little boy.

Axtell

<< <i>
I never said it was ok that Giambi cheated. I thought I made it quite clear about only IF Giambi is clean then let him play. He should be forced to have continued, regular testing. My opinion as a Yankees/baseball fan.
>>



Ok then explain to your kids why being a jerk and a cheat means you have to go, but being a producer and a cheat means you can stay.

yankeeno7

LMAO Look at the village idiot getting philosophical!!!

I'm done with you stoonad.

Axtell

<< <i>LMAO Look at the village idiot getting philosophical!!!

I'm done with you stoonad. >>



Simply asking a question.

yankeeno7

You are antagonizing....that's why I'm done with you.

I know I would rather try and explain that to my children rather than trying to explain why I think 9/11 was a government conspiracy!!!

Axtell

<< <i>You are antagonizing....that's why I'm done with you. >>



Not at all, simply trying to understand how you can justify cheating when its a 'nice' guy who's been 'clean', but, more importantly, apparently, that he's producing at the plate.



<< <i>I know I would rather try and explain that to my children rather than trying to explain why I think 9/11 was a government conspiracy!!! >>



Quit trying to derail, and stay on topic.

How would you explain to your kids cheating is ok?

yankeeno7

That is a ridiculous question. There are more important things in life than the Giambi/Sheffield saga. I highly doubt my kids are going to ask me about that! And you don't have to worry about what or how I teach my children Axhole...worry about your own if in fact you have any.

I clearly stated my opinion(and answered the question you asked in previous posts) as a baseball/Yankees fan and that is that. No more to explain. Never said anyone had to agree with it.

1420sports

You know what, the Yankees were much more succesful w/o Giambi, Sheffield, and Arod. So much more ...

Sheffield is a punk, Giambi cheated (still does?), and Arod is the most overrated player in baseball -- primarily due to his absurd contract.

Scott Brosius anyone?

yankeeno7

<< <i>
Quit trying to derail, and stay on topic.
>>



And you say I'm a hypocrite.....sheesh....

Axtell

<< <i>That is a ridiculous question. There are more important things in life than the Giambi/Sheffield saga. I highly doubt my kids are going to ask me about that! And you don't have to worry about what or how I teach my children Axhole...worry about your own if in fact you have any. >>



I find it laughable you are willing to excuse giambi's past cheating because he's supposedly 'clean' now, but sheffield, because he's a jerk, he should go.

yankeeno7

You still can't read, can you?
I said IF...not that he was "supposedly" off steroids I want him to stay. And to futher that, he needs continual testing.

This goes to prove you cant have a discussion with a fool. Im done.

bri2327

<< <i>You know what, the Yankees were much more succesful w/o Giambi, Sheffield, and Arod. So much more ...

Sheffield is a punk, Giambi cheated (still does?), and Arod is the most overrated player in baseball -- primarily due to his absurd contract.

Scott Brosius anyone? >>

yankeeno7

Great pic...I loved that team!

Axtell

<< <i>I said IF...not that he was "supposedly" off steroids I want him to stay. And to futher that, he needs continual testing.
>>



But you're saying his cheating past is ok as long as he's clean now, arent you?

RickyHendersonSD

<< Axhole
I see everyone telling you that you have no reading comprehension skills and now I truely see it.>>

You got that right.

Axtell

I am still waiting for someone to defend the stance that cheating, as long as its in the past, and they aren't cheating anymore, is somehow acceptable.

yankeeno7

Told you I was done with your nonsense Axhole. Go try and stir trouble somewhere else. My statement was clear. If you can't figure it out then go back to grammar school.
Yes, I'm done with you.

Edited to state that you can spin it any way you want. I could care less of your opinion or questions.

Boopotts

<< <i>I am still waiting for someone to defend the stance that cheating, as long as its in the past, and they aren't cheating anymore, is somehow acceptable. >>




It isn't that cheating is acceptable-- it's that everyone does things they shouldn't do, and unless you're just completely unforgiving most people are willing to excuse someone's past indiscretions so long as a) they 'fess up to them, and b) their lives weren't greatly impacted by the wrongdoing. Take Barry Bonds for example. At the end of the day, what do I care if he used steroids or not? The sanctity of the game? Nonsense. MLB isn't baseball-- it's just one league of many where the game is played. MLB doesn't pay my bills, or help me raise my kids, or fix my car. If MLB is negatively impacted by Bonds' steroid use then that's their problem, NOT mine. If Bonds actually came out and said 'I've lied, I've cheated, and now I'm here to atone', I'd just say 'Good for you, now go in peace'.

Why I kind of like Giambi-- and I imagine others here feel this way too- is because he at least kind of admitted to using steroids, or at least made as much of an admission as I would expect to get from your basic emotionally stunted pro athlete, and because he seems like a nice guy. Is he a nice guy? I have no idea. He could be raping young girls in Central Part on his nights off for all I know. But he at least 'seems' that way, at least to me, and when we assess pro athletes we're often forced to rely on murky perceptions that may or may not be correct.

Sheffield, by contrast, comes off like a total tool, and has done so since he broke into the league in 1988. I wouldn't like him anyway, but the fact he seems tied up in this steriod mess-- and won't admit to being tied up in it-- just gives me another reason not to like him. I haven't followed the bickering in this thread close enough to know for sure, but I'll be Yankeeno7 would agree that the steroid debacle, and how each athlete handled it, is only part of the reason why he likes Giambi and doesn't like Sheffield.

We all like, and don't like, differnt pro athletes for reasons we often can't fully explain or justify. I loved Derrick McKey when he played for the Pacers, for instance. Why? I have no idea. But I always found myself rooting for him whenever he took the court. I also like Kenny Stabler, despite the fact that I hate the Raiders, and John Riggins (although I don't like the Redskins), and Troy Brown (again, I don't like the team he plays for).

And if i have to expain Giambi's cheating to my son, I'd do what almost every one else here would probably do as well. I'd tell him that pro athletes are fun to watch but NOT worthy of any sort of larger admiration, that they're often arrogant and childish and boorish, and that Giambi is one of many who made a very dumb decision-- but that he at least distinguished himself from the rest of his bulked-up colleagues by making a partial admission of guilt, and that in pro sports a partial admission is usually the best you can hope for.

Boopotts

<< <i>I am still waiting for someone to defend the stance that cheating, as long as its in the past, and they aren't cheating anymore, is somehow acceptable. >>




Oh, please. Baseball is a game of cheating-- it might as well be built into the framework of the game. From spitballs to stealing signs to corked bats to eating handfuls of 'greenies', cheating in one form or another has been alive in well in baseball almost as long as the game itself has been around. If you want to get worked up in a lather about cheating in baseball then be sure to dedicate a thread or two to Gaylord Perry, who's one of the greatest cheaters to ever play the game.

It's time for everyone to get off their high horse when it comes to the steroid issue in MLB. A bunch of guys did it, more are probably doing it today (whether it be HGH or something else), and it's not going to go away-- not now, not ever. If you want to get fired up about moral bankruptcy in pro sports then there are plenty of murderers, wife beaters and deadbeat dads out there you can shake your finger at.

Axtell

You have missed my point I think, boop.

I take exception to someone wanting to dismiss sheffield for being a cheat and a bad guy, while giambi 'can stay' while he cheated but produces now while he's supposedly clean. And let's not try to make giambi into any sort of apologist here - he never publicly admitted to taking steroids (his apology was for reasons he couldn't say), his 'apology came only AFTER his testimony was leaked, and it became public knowledge he cheated to get his $100 million payday.

I never admonished giambi for his cheating past - just pointed out the hypocrisy in denoucing sheffield for cheating, while giambi seems to be given a free pass. It's also quite interesting that a guy who's never had that steroid issue surround him (Arod) is the one demonized by the press (especially the ny press), but known cheats and liars in sheffield and giambi aren't even looked at twice.

Boopotts

<< <i>You have missed my point I think, boop.

I take exception to someone wanting to dismiss sheffield for being a cheat and a bad guy, while giambi 'can stay' while he cheated but produces now while he's supposedly clean. And let's not try to make giambi into any sort of apologist here - he never publicly admitted to taking steroids (his apology was for reasons he couldn't say), his 'apology came only AFTER his testimony was leaked, and it became public knowledge he cheated to get his $100 million payday.

I never admonished giambi for his cheating past - just pointed out the hypocrisy in denoucing sheffield for cheating, while giambi seems to be given a free pass. It's also quite interesting that a guy who's never had that steroid issue surround him (Arod) is the one demonized by the press (especially the ny press), but known cheats and liars in sheffield and giambi aren't even looked at twice. >>



Well, there's a lot about Yankee fans that doesn't make any sense. Why do they hate A-rod, for instance? I can't figure that out. And there's no denying the fact that if someone can actually produce then it's easier to overlook some of their past indescretions...

But all of this neglects the central point, which is that fandom is almost always based on irrational precepts, and that makes it kind of silly to demand rational explanations for something that's irrational to start with. Why do I like Derrick McKey? Why do you like the Tampa Buccaneers? You can usually come up with some kind of explanation (they play hard, they do things 'the right way', yada yada), but that doesn't explain why one isn't a fan of the other 500 players who share those virtues. You can maintain that Yankeemo7's feelings toward Giambi and Sheffield don't make any sense, but to do so is to ignore the fact that the whole idea of fandom-- which I define here as a rooting interest in a player or team with which you are not personally affiliated--- doesn't make much sense to start out with. To point out inconsistencies or such in someone's rooting interests is almost always redundant, and not very interesting, since the whole affair is irrational to begin with.