There's nothing really new in this article but the picture on the right cracked me up. Gee, I wonder what could be turning people off from this fine, honest American hobby?
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
I agree that there are a lot of things wrong with the hobby, but there are still a lot of things right with it, too, and this article rubs me the wrong way. I think the article is pretty weak in that it doesn't provide any statistics or any solid information to support it's basic premise that the hobby is on the decline other than to say that unnamed experts agree that children are being driven away. It does note, as a case in point, how one coin shop's card sales have dropped, but without exploring for a moment the enormous impact that eBay and other online buying and trading sites have had on collectors' shopping habits.
Of course, it also doesn't help that they quote the guy holding the "Gem Mint 10" Ripken rookie as saying HE's disappointed with the state of the hobby.
Why does it seem like there has been a large number of articles like this in recent weeks and months? And they all say the same thing with little or no facts to back up the argument.
I just don't see it. In fact, I've just gotten back into the hobby after more than a 10 year break and I know of others that have done the same thing. Sure, the early and mid 90s scared alot of people my age off (I was born in '76) but those "former" collectors are now at an age where they may have a little more discretionary income to get back in the hobby. I'm not much into the new stuff but I just opened a box of Allen & Ginter this weekend and I have to admit that it was a blast and I plan on buying a few more boxes.
it's amazing how the writers of these Doom & Gloom articles about the demise of the Sports Collecting Hobby are typically people who like to remember their own experiences as young collectors, but tend to know little about the state of today's hobby....certainly, it makes no sense to pursue the opinions of dealers, when the people who have the most impact on today's hobby are collectors....maybe, these writers in question simply find it too boring or non-controversial to accept the fact that are plenty of people like the ones who populate these boards that derive great satisfaction in just owning neat stuff for good fun....but then, that would kill the long-held perception that everything out there is worth money, and give the fools nothing to write about....waiting for the next round of "Wow, The Industry Recovered!" & "I'm Such An Idiot For Getting Rid Of My Stuff!" articles.....
That is my favorite card and he has it in a GEM holder!!!!! UGGGGGGGHHHHH!!! Yes I am a Ripken guy and own a few graded copies of the Topps Traded. I love that card - great colors and Cal looks soooooo young LOL (I am not gay, just a man-crush from when I was a youth)....But damn, GEM????? Say it ain't so!!!
Collecting Interests: Ripken, Brooks & Frank Robinson, Old Orioles, Sweet Spot Autos, older Redskins - Riggins, Sonny, Baugh etc and anything that catches my eye.
My ghetto sportscard webpage...All Scans - No Lists!!! Stinky Linky
Very funny stuff guys. I get the newspaper that the article was in, and read it yesterday. Right after I was done I had the urge to write the author and explain to him what he really should have been reporting, which all you touched upon allready. I keep forgetting the power of these boards and that our little hometown newspaper would make the posts. Keep up the good work.
First - Baseball It's hardly on tv anymore. Unless you have the MLB extra innings you can go days without finding a game in much of the country. i also think the strike left a bad taste in alot of folks' mouths. There's the steroid scandals. Also, other sports have edged into baseball's turf like Nascar and the NFL. The NFL really has all the hype these days. Also, many kids have begun to find "x-games and many other new and INDIVIDUAL sports" to be more exciting. Kids just don't seem to understand what a team is anymore.
Second- The Cards They're too expensive first. There's too many subsets and inserts. Also, they're don't seem to be enough vendors. When I was a kid in the eighties you could buy cards anywhere. The deli, gas station, 7-11, dept. store, grocery store, hell..........you name it, anywhere. Now there hard to find.
Kids have different idols now. There are profesional video game players. There are the X games and Tony Hawk. and most of all what I posted on Net54 to answer the same question below. Idols are different now. Baseball is not the only game in town any more for kids.
I've said this before but it's worth repeating. Our kids today have so many options of what to do with their time, and they have so much of it now. Most of it is spent right here, no not on this board but in front of some type of computer screen. How many great baseball players will we never hear of because they spent talents other ways. In the depression to the 80's kids played sports. Night and day, every day. They dreamed of making it to the majors, being like their heroes. Now, so many other opertunities are there for them. Shouldn't be suprised when the major leagues will be comprised completely of Central American and or poor American kids? It won't be too long that the majority will be from Central America. They live, breath and die baseball every day. They know that it their ticket out of poverty. The majority of kids today have no interest in a game that takes 4 hours and 162 of them for a season. The only kids interested are the one's taught by their fathers. It will be awhile before they are nastalgic enough to buy cardboard, and by then pokemon will be their childhood memories. The adults are the ones that are buying packs and boxes today and the $850 packs prove that. The marketing is geared for us with disposible income, not for a kid with a $10 allowance. Joe
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
If you check out SportsCollectorsDaily.com, I think I've posted links to at least 4-5 of these type of stories in the last month alone...all from different sources. We kind of make fun of them since there seems to be quite a glut lately ("the summer of doom!"). I don't know what the reason is exactly, except once a major media outlet does the story, papers tend to try to localize it. It's quite a common practice...and I believe earlier this summer, the Wall Street Journal or some other outlet did something. The others have followed.
It's probably a combination of some of the young writers being assigned to these stories, or volunteering for them, are likely of the age now where their 'card collecting days' as kids were in the late 80s and early 90s. They're now waking up to the fact that their stuff isn't worth much and see some news value there since back then everything seemed to be a 'can't miss' proposition. It's fairly understandable...and some of it is quite accurate. The reasons mentioned in posts above are right on the money. Greed/overproduction/confusion with the # of issues, etc. has all contributed to the perception. You really can't blame the messenger.
It is a bit disappointing to see the hobby rolled into one giant ball, though. I don't collect autographs but every time someone outside the hobby finds out I'm a collector, that's what they start talking about. As several of you have mentioned, the 'bust' certainly hasn't affected vintage, memorabilia, etc. and a few of the lengthier stories have mentioned that. Hopefully sites like mine can help change the perception and remember--when you encounter someone outside the hobby who only has limited knowledge ----be nice. Many times it's just a case of not realizing the number of different facets that make up this hobby.
<< <i> First - Baseball It's hardly on tv anymore. Unless you have the MLB extra innings you can go days without finding a game in much of the country. i also think the strike left a bad taste in alot of folks' mouths. There's the steroid scandals. Also, other sports have edged into baseball's turf like Nascar and the NFL. The NFL really has all the hype these days. Also, many kids have begun to find "x-games and many other new and INDIVIDUAL sports" to be more exciting. Kids just don't seem to understand what a team is anymore.
Second- The Cards They're too expensive first. There's too many subsets and inserts. Also, they're don't seem to be enough vendors. When I was a kid in the eighties you could buy cards anywhere. The deli, gas station, 7-11, dept. store, grocery store, hell..........you name it, anywhere. Now there hard to find. >>
You nailed it, RobertB.
Don't forget that geezers like us are part of #2. The companies like us because we have more "discretionary income" (a euphemism that means "the cash I hope my wife doesn't find out I've spent. Then again, she gets her nails done at a spa for more than I pay for a decent graded card so the hell with her...")
The boom of the 90s is IMO an anomaly and the "hobby" - true collectors - is superimposed over this 16 years period of glut, greed and Johnny Come Lately's who tried to jump on a bandwagon named the Titanic.
I can't speak for your areas, but there's plenty of baseball on my TV in Texas - Turner, WGN, ESPN, Fox "south" - to name a few that cover games each and every day.
The cost of modern is totally up to the individual - there's 2 buck, 3 buck, 4 buck and up packs.
I no longer compete with anyone or myself and collect: 1. what I like to look at and 2. what I can afford.
Hang in there guys - this is a fun hobby and there's plenty to still collect that's affordable.
As long as one drops the idea that they will be funding any townhomes, college educations or RVs in the future with the sale of their collections.
Since when are we supposed to believe everything we read in a newspaper as if Theresa Winslow, Staff Writer, is some sort of baseball card industry expert? LOL
Most probably there is very little advertising done with baseball cards in their newspaper. Newspapers love to go after those who have no business relationship with them. For example companies such as gambling businesses advertise heavily in newspapers. Despite all the obvious negatives inherent with many people losing money gambling, you'll rarely see anything negative stated about gambling with these newspapers. The newspapers don't want to bite the hand that feeds them.
I remember on TV before cigarette advertising was banned, I don't remember ever seeing anything on TV negative about cigarettes. Cigarettes had been very heavily advertised on TV for many years. But as soon as smoking ads were banned, the TV news journalists were suddenly all over the tobacco industry. LOL
There is about an article a week similar to this one. In the past few months I have read several that were written by whining hacks who dropped by their mothers homes recently and dug up the shoeboxes full of 87-90 cards thinking they had a gold mine only to find out their 87 topps McGwire cards were worthless.
I even responded t one particularly annoying little stooge of a writer who went on a tirade about how he spent so much money on cards in 87-88 instead of eating lunch, buying books, blah blah. He complained endlessly how he and the rest of America was duped into believing they would be worth a fortune someday. I wrote the guy basically telling him that if he was dumb enough to believe all that hype then he deserved to starve his way through his teen and college years. I asked if it ever occurred to him in 88 that if EVERY store in America had cases and cases of this stuff that maybe, just maybe it wouldnt be all that rare or valuable in the future ? I also asked him if he bought and collected for fun and enjoyment, or purely for investment. If he had a great time collecting with friends when he was a teen than he had nothing to complain about, and he surely should have mentioned in his article the value of fun the hobby provides. In the end I actually got a reply back from him explaining that it was his job to report what he felt was a problem. Bitterness can get ugly I suppose.
Personally, I am not all that worried about which direction the hobby goes. Things happen naturally, no matter what we do, say, or try to affect. If collecting cards doesnt catch on for the generations to come, so be it. It wont take away from the value of the true rarities and vintage items of today, and it certainly wont make me lose any sleep. If my children get into cards due to my influence, great.If not, oh well. Sure it would be nice, but not if its forced upon them.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
First - Baseball It's hardly on tv anymore. Unless you have the MLB extra innings you can go days without finding a game in much of the country. i also think the strike left a bad taste in alot of folks' mouths. There's the steroid scandals. Also, other sports have edged into baseball's turf like Nascar and the NFL. The NFL really has all the hype these days. Also, many kids have begun to find "x-games and many other new and INDIVIDUAL sports" to be more exciting. Kids just don't seem to understand what a team is anymore.
Second- The Cards They're too expensive first. There's too many subsets and inserts. Also, they're don't seem to be enough vendors. When I was a kid in the eighties you could buy cards anywhere. The deli, gas station, 7-11, dept. store, grocery store, hell..........you name it, anywhere. Now there hard to find. >>
I agree and disagree. I agree that baseball is its own worst enemy. Compared to the NFL, they are completely clueless in understanding what it takes to promote their league.
I disagree from the standpoint that this has impacted the hobby. Football popularity is growing by leaps and bounds but I don't see this translating to the hobby. Maybe it is for newer cards but vintage hasn't seen an impact. I was shocked to see that mid 1970s football graded sets are so thinly collected. Some don't even have a completely graded set. Compared to baseball, football is still trailing. Why is this so? A Bart Starr or Johnny U card will still typically trail a comparable Mantle or Mays card in terms of market value.
With the popularity of football growing, shouldn't we see a similar growth in football card collecting? Am I missing something?
I have yet to hear this as a reason the hobby has gone down hill. I really think prepackaged factory sealed sets are devistating to the hobby. Why whould you buy boxes and packs of 2006 topps when you can have an individual team set for like 40 bucks? If you were trying to put together a set by buying packs it would pump more money to the hobby and make more people get back to trading and dealing the ungraded commons for what they are worth. Look at someone like A-rod, His commons should be indemand but nobody cares about star player cards unless it is a Gu/auto. If you needed that Arod for a set you may be willing to spend at least a buck or two for it but that just doesnt work when anyone who wants to complete a set just buys it and is done with that set for good. Make cards scarce again by not making them available in sets; not by making short prints of minor stars.
<< <i>I have yet to hear this as a reason the hobby has gone down hill. I really think prepackaged factory sealed sets are devistating to the hobby. Why whould you buy boxes and packs of 2006 topps when you can have an individual team set for like 40 bucks? If you were trying to put together a set by buying packs it would pump more money to the hobby and make more people get back to trading and dealing the ungraded commons for what they are worth. Look at someone like A-rod, His commons should be indemand but nobody cares about star player cards unless it is a Gu/auto. If you needed that Arod for a set you may be willing to spend at least a buck or two for it but that just doesnt work when anyone who wants to complete a set just buys it and is done with that set for good. Make cards scarce again by not making them available in sets; not by making short prints of minor stars. >>
I really never thought about it that way, but I believe you just hit on something. I think you made a really good point.
I was born in 1975, so therefore, I chose to go back to 1975 and start a set collection. I now have almost every Topps base set from 1975 to present (missing 77 and 79). When I started this set collection, I collected NON factory sets ON PURPOSE. The reason being is that I didn't want my sets in a nice sealed box that I could never look at. I also didn't want my sets in an 800 ct box either. I have carefully put my sets into nice albums where they can be viewed.
Someone also mentioned getting their children involved. I recently bough a hugh collection of unopened cards. Just last night, me and my 5 year old son started opening a 1987 Topps wax box just for the fun of it. We had a contest to see who could pull the most Cardinals cards. We had a blast! Before long, my 3 year old daughter comes running in there and says, "Daddy, I want to open some." So she ended up getting in on the fun. I even let my son try the gum!
Another thing about getting children involved is to actually play the game with them. My son loves to play baseball. Yesterday after working all day, I came home to mow the yard. Well, my son grabs his glove and ball and starts throwing the ball up in the air and catching it. I knew then that when I got done mowing that he would want to hit some baseballs. So, when I got done mowing, I grabbed the box of baseballs out of the garage and pitched to him. Let me tell y'all something - that boy can hit. He has almost given me a black eye a couple of times. He can hit the ball in the air probably 60 or 70 feet - and he is just 5. Also yesterday, for the first time, I threw to him overhanded, and he was hitting it! Can you tell that I am proud of him!
I said all that to say - spend time with your kids. What better way than to pitch a ball to your kids in the yard or to open some packs with them!
they talk about the demise of the hobby. i think psa help save the hobby when they started grading cards. also these message boards have been one the best things ever. i have dealt with a lot of people that i would not have known if not for these boards.
when i started my 70 kellogg's set gemmintman and zardoz 51 sent me a psa 9 each to get my set started. mick cornett (mayor of okc) sold me psa 9's for grading fees. king kellogg i sent him 200 raw kellogg's and he picked what he needed and when he returned them he picked out 10 extra that i should send in for grading. i did and all came back 9's. 2 days later i received a package and he sent 3 psa 9's i needed for my set.
griffins and gemmintman helped me on the 64 topps giants. they both showed me what the grader looks for in a card from that year. i quit getting 7's and started getting 8's and 9's. anthony (griffins) even purchased a lot of my extras.
i was grading a couple of 73 schmidt rookies and had questions about extra paper on the card. i contacted mike schmidt (mark) on these boards and he explained everything to me and both came back 8's.
jay wolt,vargha, alanallen, stump, scottsussor have all helped me or sold me cards for my collection, not for profit but for keeping the hobby going. that is why i don't think this hobby will never go by the wasteside.
thanks to everyone and if i can help just pm me and i will be glad too.
When I was young, my father could take a family of six to the Phillies game. For tickets, parking, sodas, dogs, plastic batting helmets, etc cost less than 40 bucks. Today that typically will buy two seats. We would go to at least 10 games a year, so the interest was there. Plus, it was basically the same team, albeit a few new guys every year from a trade or a farm team call up.
My nephews are at the age when collectors of cards are born. They like everything mentioned in that article. I asked my youngest nephew why he doesn't like cards and his answer was "you can't really do anything with them." Not a bad answer considering what kids do nowadays. Plus, do you ever see kids playing wiffle ball anymore? I know this is a stretch, but I just do not see baseball as popular as it once was. A typical summer day for me was waking up, playing wiffle ball all morning, eating lunch, then playing some more. Trading would take place on rainy days or sleepovers, and then school would start. Oh, and packs were about a quarter and there was only one company.
Kinda makes me wonder about the future of the vintage market. We buy em now because these were the cards of legend. We knew about Hank Aaron and Willie Mays at age 10 because of baseball and collecting. Then we knew about Dimaggio and Berra and Kluzewski and Amoros. Today, kids know the secret code to get more charisma points on a video game.
edited to add: I have been working on my nephews however, and slowly they are talking about baseball and even some cards. Hopefully they will come around. As a father of a soon to be 2 year old, I have to practice on someone
When I spoke of other sports like the NFL and nascar hurting baseball card collecting I mean it this way. If folks are more into other sports they may and probably are less interested in baseball. (There's only so many hours in a day). If they're less interested in baseball then they're certainly going to be less interested in baseball cards. It's a chain reaction. People don't have to collect more football cards to hurt baseball cards.
As far as vintage cards go, well that's easy. The U.S. population is a majority of kids from the 50's, 60's, 70's. Thus, these folks, the baby-boomers and post years have a ton of disceetionary income and they need a hobby. Naturally they turn to their heroes and hobbies past. There you have it - great demand for vintage. It's really not complicated. What's sad is the thought of what kind of hobbies kids these days will have in 40 or 50 years? I have no idea.
I wonder: Are there any companies, or offshoots of companies, that offer crappy cardboard cards anymore? There should be.
I have to believe that many kids would be far far far more likely to get into the hobby for the fun of simply collecting the set and their favorite players w/o regard to value. Obviously, the modern cards of today are built on value. just look at the prices of packs....how could any kid afford $3 for 5 cards? I would think that there would be a lot of kids still willing to collect modern players/teams etc. if there were available packs of semi-crappy cards 75 cents or so.
.....Like 2006 topps cards that were produced like 1988 topps.....low grade material would keep the prices down and though the cards wouldn't have much or any real value as far as selling individual cards, it would still be fun for kids to simply COLLECT and try to build sets and favorite players. It would be a throw back for sure, but i would think this would be great for kids pre 13 yrs old so. (after 13, if they still collect, they would be more likely to be little businessmen, speculating, etc.)
Are there no set like this.....Is there no place in the market for a set like this? I would think that there is. Younger kids would grab the pack of cards that cost 75 cents for 10 cards w/a stick of gum in them rather than the super shiny and golden cards that cost $3 for 5 cards....or so i would think. AND cards like this would be more likely to be found just about anywhere...drug stores, convenience stores, grocery stores, etc.....maybe not even behind lock and key like i always see them now due to the price. It seems there must be a market for this.
Or maybe I'm totally off on this....or just totally dated....I only collect vintage these days.
<< <i>I disagree from the standpoint that this has impacted the hobby. Football popularity is growing by leaps and bounds but I don't see this translating to the hobby. Maybe it is for newer cards but vintage hasn't seen an impact. I was shocked to see that mid 1970s football graded sets are so thinly collected. Some don't even have a completely graded set. Compared to baseball, football is still trailing. Why is this so? A Bart Starr or Johnny U card will still typically trail a comparable Mantle or Mays card in terms of market value. >>
Well, it's really a combination of factors. We cant readily exclude baseball's perception in the American public. I dont think its the main factor, but the strike, the lack of player to team identity (i.e. fans cant really attach themselves to the star players of their teams...in 4 to 5 years, say goodbye to them because they will cost too much. Gone are the days when star players stick with their original teams for a decade plus. So, as a Mariners fan, why should i continue collecting ARod or griffey cards when both are no longer on the team?) and the steroid scandal have definitely contributed to the declining interest in baseball cards. Modern baseball cards, as are other products associated with modern baseball, follow the swings of interest in baseball the sport.
But, the two driving forces behind the diminishing population of young collectors are the change in what kids perceive to be enjoyable and cool and the way baseball card companies have basically outpriced and mass produced modern cards. I personally dont think the hobby is dead. Not at all. The vintage and autograph markets are very strong. The problem is the modern market.
An interesting question someone raised above is where will the demand for vintage cards be once the baby boomer generation pass away? Will the generation x'ers and y'ers...and today's kids, whatever they are called...take up the mantle of vintage card collecting? Will this vintage bubble burst in 20-30 years when kids who watched mays, mantle and aaron start dying off? As ive said in the past, it would be great if someone did some sort of demographic research of baseball card collecting trends. Can the younger generation collect cards of players they have never seen play? Seems to be working now with baby boomers collecting cobb and wagner. But, what about in the future when this generation of non collectors inherit their father's collection?
Comments
Yet another Gem Mint 10
1) Greed.
2) Market oversaturation.
3) Greed.
4) Insert crap.
5) Did I mention Greed?
6) Grading. It has both hurt and helped the hobby.
7) The decline of baseball itself.
8) Mr. Mint.
9) Needles.
10) Bud Selig.
Stay classy,
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
too many inserts and parallels which devalues the base cards. That's why vintage holds their value and new stuff becomes worthless.
<< <i>Simple pimpin'...
too many inserts and parallels which devalues the base cards. That's why vintage holds their value and new stuff becomes worthless. >>
word...
Of course, it also doesn't help that they quote the guy holding the "Gem Mint 10" Ripken rookie as saying HE's disappointed with the state of the hobby.
I just don't see it. In fact, I've just gotten back into the hobby after more than a 10 year break and I know of others that have done the same thing. Sure, the early and mid 90s scared alot of people my age off (I was born in '76) but those "former" collectors are now at an age where they may have a little more discretionary income to get back in the hobby. I'm not much into the new stuff but I just opened a box of Allen & Ginter this weekend and I have to admit that it was a blast and I plan on buying a few more boxes.
Just my 2 cents.
<< <i>
Yet another Gem Mint 10
That card is not pimpin'
Pimp On....
-The vintage market is on fire. The Memory Lanes and Mastros of the world are doing record business.
-New untapped areas of the hobby are emerging (vintage photos, etc)
-Graded cards have completely changed the hobby.
-The role of ebay.
There's also no mention that alot of shops went out of business because...well...they just weren't that good at business. That's a hard one...
That is my favorite card and he has it in a GEM holder!!!!! UGGGGGGGHHHHH!!! Yes I am a Ripken guy and own a few graded copies of the Topps Traded. I love that card - great colors and Cal looks soooooo young LOL (I am not gay, just a man-crush from when I was a youth)....But damn, GEM????? Say it ain't so!!!
Ripken, Brooks & Frank Robinson, Old Orioles, Sweet Spot Autos, older Redskins - Riggins, Sonny, Baugh etc and anything that catches my eye.
My ghetto sportscard webpage...All Scans - No Lists!!! Stinky Linky
First - Baseball
It's hardly on tv anymore. Unless you have the MLB extra innings you can go days without finding a game in much of the country. i also think the strike left a bad taste in alot of folks' mouths. There's the steroid scandals. Also, other sports have edged into baseball's turf like Nascar and the NFL. The NFL really has all the hype these days. Also, many kids have begun to find "x-games and many other new and INDIVIDUAL sports" to be more exciting. Kids just don't seem to understand what a team is anymore.
Second- The Cards
They're too expensive first. There's too many subsets and inserts. Also, they're don't seem to be enough vendors. When I was a kid in the eighties you could buy cards anywhere. The deli, gas station, 7-11, dept. store, grocery store, hell..........you name it, anywhere. Now there hard to find.
Looking for alot of crap.
<< <i>Simple pimpin'...
too many inserts and parallels which devalues the base cards. That's why vintage holds their value and new stuff becomes worthless. >>
That is the straight jive!
<< <i>
<< <i>Simple pimpin'...
too many inserts and parallels which devalues the base cards. That's why vintage holds their value and new stuff becomes worthless. >>
That is the straight jive! >>
Play On.......
Kids have different idols now. There are profesional video game players. There are the X games and Tony Hawk. and most of all what I posted on Net54 to answer the same question below. Idols are different now. Baseball is not the only game in town any more for kids.
I've said this before but it's worth repeating. Our kids today have so many options of what to do with their time, and they have so much of it now. Most of it is spent right here, no not on this board but in front of some type of computer screen. How many great baseball players will we never hear of because they spent talents other ways. In the depression to the 80's kids played sports. Night and day, every day. They dreamed of making it to the majors, being like their heroes. Now, so many other opertunities are there for them. Shouldn't be suprised when the major leagues will be comprised completely of Central American and or poor American kids? It won't be too long that the majority will be from Central America. They live, breath and die baseball every day. They know that it their ticket out of poverty. The majority of kids today have no interest in a game that takes 4 hours and 162 of them for a season. The only kids interested are the one's taught by their fathers. It will be awhile before they are nastalgic enough to buy cardboard, and by then pokemon will be their childhood memories. The adults are the ones that are buying packs and boxes today and the $850 packs prove that. The marketing is geared for us with disposible income, not for a kid with a $10 allowance. Joe
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Sounds good to me anyway.
matt
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
It's probably a combination of some of the young writers being assigned to these stories, or volunteering for them, are likely of the age now where their 'card collecting days' as kids were in the late 80s and early 90s. They're now waking up to the fact that their stuff isn't worth much and see some news value there since back then everything seemed to be a 'can't miss' proposition. It's fairly understandable...and some of it is quite accurate. The reasons mentioned in posts above are right on the money. Greed/overproduction/confusion with the # of issues, etc. has all contributed to the perception. You really can't blame the messenger.
It is a bit disappointing to see the hobby rolled into one giant ball, though. I don't collect autographs but every time someone outside the hobby finds out I'm a collector, that's what they start talking about. As several of you have mentioned, the 'bust' certainly hasn't affected vintage, memorabilia, etc. and a few of the lengthier stories have mentioned that. Hopefully sites like mine can help change the perception and remember--when you encounter someone outside the hobby who only has limited knowledge ----be nice. Many times it's just a case of not realizing the number of different facets that make up this hobby.
<< <i>
First - Baseball
It's hardly on tv anymore. Unless you have the MLB extra innings you can go days without finding a game in much of the country. i also think the strike left a bad taste in alot of folks' mouths. There's the steroid scandals. Also, other sports have edged into baseball's turf like Nascar and the NFL. The NFL really has all the hype these days. Also, many kids have begun to find "x-games and many other new and INDIVIDUAL sports" to be more exciting. Kids just don't seem to understand what a team is anymore.
Second- The Cards
They're too expensive first. There's too many subsets and inserts. Also, they're don't seem to be enough vendors. When I was a kid in the eighties you could buy cards anywhere. The deli, gas station, 7-11, dept. store, grocery store, hell..........you name it, anywhere. Now there hard to find. >>
You nailed it, RobertB.
Don't forget that geezers like us are part of #2. The companies like us because we have more "discretionary income" (a euphemism that means "the cash I hope my wife doesn't find out I've spent. Then again, she gets her nails done at a spa for more than I pay for a decent graded card so the hell with her...")
The glass is half full.
This is too complicated of an issue.
The boom of the 90s is IMO an anomaly and the "hobby" - true collectors - is superimposed over this 16 years period of glut, greed and Johnny Come Lately's who tried to jump on a bandwagon named the Titanic.
I can't speak for your areas, but there's plenty of baseball on my TV in Texas - Turner, WGN, ESPN, Fox "south" - to name a few that cover games each and every day.
The cost of modern is totally up to the individual - there's 2 buck, 3 buck, 4 buck and up packs.
I no longer compete with anyone or myself and collect: 1. what I like to look at and 2. what I can afford.
Hang in there guys - this is a fun hobby and there's plenty to still collect that's affordable.
As long as one drops the idea that they will be funding any townhomes, college educations or RVs in the future with the sale of their collections.
mike
Most probably there is very little advertising done with baseball cards in their newspaper. Newspapers love to go after those who have no business relationship with them. For example companies such as gambling businesses advertise heavily in newspapers. Despite all the obvious negatives inherent with many people losing money gambling, you'll rarely see anything negative stated about gambling with these newspapers. The newspapers don't want to bite the hand that feeds them.
I remember on TV before cigarette advertising was banned, I don't remember ever seeing anything on TV negative about cigarettes. Cigarettes had been very heavily advertised on TV for many years. But as soon as smoking ads were banned, the TV news journalists were suddenly all over the tobacco industry. LOL
Julen
RIP GURU
I even responded t one particularly annoying little stooge of a writer who went on a tirade about how he spent so much money on cards in 87-88 instead of eating lunch, buying books, blah blah. He complained endlessly how he and the rest of America was duped into believing they would be worth a fortune someday. I wrote the guy basically telling him that if he was dumb enough to believe all that hype then he deserved to starve his way through his teen and college years. I asked if it ever occurred to him in 88 that if EVERY store in America had cases and cases of this stuff that maybe, just maybe it wouldnt be all that rare or valuable in the future ? I also asked him if he bought and collected for fun and enjoyment, or purely for investment. If he had a great time collecting with friends when he was a teen than he had nothing to complain about, and he surely should have mentioned in his article the value of fun the hobby provides. In the end I actually got a reply back from him explaining that it was his job to report what he felt was a problem. Bitterness can get ugly I suppose.
Personally, I am not all that worried about which direction the hobby goes. Things happen naturally, no matter what we do, say, or try to affect. If collecting cards doesnt catch on for the generations to come, so be it. It wont take away from the value of the true rarities and vintage items of today, and it certainly wont make me lose any sleep. If my children get into cards due to my influence, great.If not, oh well. Sure it would be nice, but not if its forced upon them.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>I have to get in on this one.........
First - Baseball
It's hardly on tv anymore. Unless you have the MLB extra innings you can go days without finding a game in much of the country. i also think the strike left a bad taste in alot of folks' mouths. There's the steroid scandals. Also, other sports have edged into baseball's turf like Nascar and the NFL. The NFL really has all the hype these days. Also, many kids have begun to find "x-games and many other new and INDIVIDUAL sports" to be more exciting. Kids just don't seem to understand what a team is anymore.
Second- The Cards
They're too expensive first. There's too many subsets and inserts. Also, they're don't seem to be enough vendors. When I was a kid in the eighties you could buy cards anywhere. The deli, gas station, 7-11, dept. store, grocery store, hell..........you name it, anywhere. Now there hard to find. >>
I agree and disagree. I agree that baseball is its own worst enemy. Compared to the NFL, they are completely clueless in understanding what it takes to promote their league.
I disagree from the standpoint that this has impacted the hobby. Football popularity is growing by leaps and bounds but I don't see this translating to the hobby. Maybe it is for newer cards but vintage hasn't seen an impact. I was shocked to see that mid 1970s football graded sets are so thinly collected. Some don't even have a completely graded set. Compared to baseball, football is still trailing. Why is this so? A Bart Starr or Johnny U card will still typically trail a comparable Mantle or Mays card in terms of market value.
With the popularity of football growing, shouldn't we see a similar growth in football card collecting? Am I missing something?
http://sportsfansnews.com/author/andy-fischer/
I clicked on the link thinking it would be a photo of McGwire and Bonds sitting together entitled--"Beavis and Butthead"
<< <i>I have yet to hear this as a reason the hobby has gone down hill. I really think prepackaged factory sealed sets are devistating to the hobby. Why whould you buy boxes and packs of 2006 topps when you can have an individual team set for like 40 bucks? If you were trying to put together a set by buying packs it would pump more money to the hobby and make more people get back to trading and dealing the ungraded commons for what they are worth. Look at someone like A-rod, His commons should be indemand but nobody cares about star player cards unless it is a Gu/auto. If you needed that Arod for a set you may be willing to spend at least a buck or two for it but that just doesnt work when anyone who wants to complete a set just buys it and is done with that set for good. Make cards scarce again by not making them available in sets; not by making short prints of minor stars. >>
I really never thought about it that way, but I believe you just hit on something. I think you made a really good point.
I was born in 1975, so therefore, I chose to go back to 1975 and start a set collection. I now have almost every Topps base set from 1975 to present (missing 77 and 79). When I started this set collection, I collected NON factory sets ON PURPOSE. The reason being is that I didn't want my sets in a nice sealed box that I could never look at. I also didn't want my sets in an 800 ct box either. I have carefully put my sets into nice albums where they can be viewed.
Someone also mentioned getting their children involved. I recently bough a hugh collection of unopened cards. Just last night, me and my 5 year old son started opening a 1987 Topps wax box just for the fun of it. We had a contest to see who could pull the most Cardinals cards. We had a blast! Before long, my 3 year old daughter comes running in there and says, "Daddy, I want to open some." So she ended up getting in on the fun. I even let my son try the gum!
Another thing about getting children involved is to actually play the game with them. My son loves to play baseball. Yesterday after working all day, I came home to mow the yard. Well, my son grabs his glove and ball and starts throwing the ball up in the air and catching it. I knew then that when I got done mowing that he would want to hit some baseballs. So, when I got done mowing, I grabbed the box of baseballs out of the garage and pitched to him. Let me tell y'all something - that boy can hit. He has almost given me a black eye a couple of times. He can hit the ball in the air probably 60 or 70 feet - and he is just 5. Also yesterday, for the first time, I threw to him overhanded, and he was hitting it! Can you tell that I am proud of him!
I said all that to say - spend time with your kids. What better way than to pitch a ball to your kids in the yard or to open some packs with them!
Shane
when i started my 70 kellogg's set gemmintman and zardoz 51 sent me a psa 9 each to get my set started. mick cornett (mayor of okc) sold me psa 9's for grading fees. king kellogg i sent him 200 raw kellogg's and he picked what he needed and when he returned them he picked out 10 extra that i should send in for grading. i did and all came back 9's. 2 days later i received a package and he sent 3 psa 9's i needed for my set.
griffins and gemmintman helped me on the 64 topps giants. they both showed me what the grader looks for in a card from that year. i quit getting 7's and started getting 8's and 9's. anthony (griffins) even purchased a lot of my extras.
i was grading a couple of 73 schmidt rookies and had questions about extra paper on the card. i contacted mike schmidt (mark) on these boards and he explained everything to me and both came back 8's.
jay wolt,vargha, alanallen, stump, scottsussor have all helped me or sold me cards for my collection, not for profit but for keeping the hobby going. that is why i don't think this hobby will never go by the wasteside.
thanks to everyone and if i can help just pm me and i will be glad too.
.............fab4.............carey
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When I was young, my father could take a family of six to the Phillies game. For tickets, parking, sodas, dogs, plastic batting helmets, etc cost less than 40 bucks. Today that typically will buy two seats. We would go to at least 10 games a year, so the interest was there. Plus, it was basically the same team, albeit a few new guys every year from a trade or a farm team call up.
My nephews are at the age when collectors of cards are born. They like everything mentioned in that article. I asked my youngest nephew why he doesn't like cards and his answer was "you can't really do anything with them." Not a bad answer considering what kids do nowadays. Plus, do you ever see kids playing wiffle ball anymore? I know this is a stretch, but I just do not see baseball as popular as it once was. A typical summer day for me was waking up, playing wiffle ball all morning, eating lunch, then playing some more. Trading would take place on rainy days or sleepovers, and then school would start. Oh, and packs were about a quarter and there was only one company.
Kinda makes me wonder about the future of the vintage market. We buy em now because these were the cards of legend. We knew about Hank Aaron and Willie Mays at age 10 because of baseball and collecting. Then we knew about Dimaggio and Berra and Kluzewski and Amoros. Today, kids know the secret code to get more charisma points on a video game.
edited to add: I have been working on my nephews however, and slowly they are talking about baseball and even some cards. Hopefully they will come around. As a father of a soon to be 2 year old, I have to practice on someone
As far as vintage cards go, well that's easy. The U.S. population is a majority of kids from the 50's, 60's, 70's. Thus, these folks, the baby-boomers and post years have a ton of disceetionary income and they need a hobby. Naturally they turn to their heroes and hobbies past. There you have it - great demand for vintage. It's really not complicated. What's sad is the thought of what kind of hobbies kids these days will have in 40 or 50 years? I have no idea.
Looking for alot of crap.
Are there any companies, or offshoots of companies, that offer crappy cardboard cards anymore? There should be.
I have to believe that many kids would be far far far more likely to get into the hobby for the fun of simply collecting the set and their favorite players w/o regard to value. Obviously, the modern cards of today are built on value. just look at the prices of packs....how could any kid afford $3 for 5 cards?
I would think that there would be a lot of kids still willing to collect modern players/teams etc. if there were available packs of semi-crappy cards 75 cents or so.
.....Like 2006 topps cards that were produced like 1988 topps.....low grade material would keep the prices down and though the cards wouldn't have much or any real value as far as selling individual cards, it would still be fun for kids to simply COLLECT and try to build sets and favorite players.
It would be a throw back for sure, but i would think this would be great for kids pre 13 yrs old so. (after 13, if they still collect, they would be more likely to be little businessmen, speculating, etc.)
Are there no set like this.....Is there no place in the market for a set like this? I would think that there is. Younger kids would grab the pack of cards that cost 75 cents for 10 cards w/a stick of gum in them rather than the super shiny and golden cards that cost $3 for 5 cards....or so i would think. AND cards like this would be more likely to be found just about anywhere...drug stores, convenience stores, grocery stores, etc.....maybe not even behind lock and key like i always see them now due to the price. It seems there must be a market for this.
Or maybe I'm totally off on this....or just totally dated....I only collect vintage these days.
<< <i>I disagree from the standpoint that this has impacted the hobby. Football popularity is growing by leaps and bounds but I don't see this translating to the hobby. Maybe it is for newer cards but vintage hasn't seen an impact. I was shocked to see that mid 1970s football graded sets are so thinly collected. Some don't even have a completely graded set. Compared to baseball, football is still trailing. Why is this so? A Bart Starr or Johnny U card will still typically trail a comparable Mantle or Mays card in terms of market value. >>
Well, it's really a combination of factors. We cant readily exclude baseball's perception in the American public. I dont think its the main factor, but the strike, the lack of player to team identity (i.e. fans cant really attach themselves to the star players of their teams...in 4 to 5 years, say goodbye to them because they will cost too much. Gone are the days when star players stick with their original teams for a decade plus. So, as a Mariners fan, why should i continue collecting ARod or griffey cards when both are no longer on the team?) and the steroid scandal have definitely contributed to the declining interest in baseball cards. Modern baseball cards, as are other products associated with modern baseball, follow the swings of interest in baseball the sport.
But, the two driving forces behind the diminishing population of young collectors are the change in what kids perceive to be enjoyable and cool and the way baseball card companies have basically outpriced and mass produced modern cards. I personally dont think the hobby is dead. Not at all. The vintage and autograph markets are very strong. The problem is the modern market.
An interesting question someone raised above is where will the demand for vintage cards be once the baby boomer generation pass away? Will the generation x'ers and y'ers...and today's kids, whatever they are called...take up the mantle of vintage card collecting? Will this vintage bubble burst in 20-30 years when kids who watched mays, mantle and aaron start dying off? As ive said in the past, it would be great if someone did some sort of demographic research of baseball card collecting trends. Can the younger generation collect cards of players they have never seen play? Seems to be working now with baby boomers collecting cobb and wagner. But, what about in the future when this generation of non collectors inherit their father's collection?
Interesting questions to ponder...
So at least one person will be collecting vintage (prewar through the 50s, 60s) cards in 30 years!!
John
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS