1300+ FB - 100% - Power Seller - Trying to screw me!

envoy98

So much for the whole power seller w/ 100% feedback.

I win this auction:
Larry Johnson Contenders RC Auto

"Absolutely stunning" ... "YOU WILL RECIEVE ACTUAL CARD LISTED ABOVE AND PICTURE BELOW"

Here is the pic of the card I was shown in the scans.



...and here is the one I got in the mail. Notice the autograph on the front is COMPLETELY different. Interestingly enough, the serial number IS in fact 230/344. The ding in the bottom right corner is the only complaint...but it's obviously not the same card.



The reason I'm complaining is the bottom right corner, is FAR from "STUNNING" it's got a big dent in it and is quite obviously not the card that is pictured in the auction.

So I email the seller expressing my displeasure and asking for a resolution...
To which he replies:
"The card you won was SN# 230/344 that is the card that was shipped we only had one in inventory, What # are You saying you got. ?"

I reply with both scans above:
"Oh I got #230, but you know the card pictured is NOT the card I received. The autograph isn't even the same. I've saved a copy of that pic to send to paypal and file my claim along with the scan of the card I received. I'll send you back card #230/344, which is what you sent me, but it's not the one you had pictured.

Look at the autographs and the corners and tell me that's the same card."


His reply:
"Hello we did not achieve 100% feedback by altering cards and cheating our customer as you are implying you did not send a scan of the back are you saying we changed the SN the front looks the same to me., you are welcome to return the card for a refund provided it is the same card you were shipped same SN# and same condition.

We will not accept cards who's SN# has been tampered with or altered or attempted to be altered . or a card that has been damaged after it has been received we have had people try to return a card after they dropped it on the floor..


Thanks.."


and lastly...our latest exchange:
"You have got to be kidding me.

The card I received was #230/344, and it's NOT the same card you have pictured. The back is the same, the front obviously is not. Look at the autograph, it's completely different. The fact that you would even try to put this on me is ridiculous. I'll be happy to send the card back to you, it's worthless to me with the ding in the corner. I think I'll file my claim with paypal first. I think I'll take a picture of the card over a mirror, that way you can see it's #230 and you can see the front which is not the card I was promised in your auction. I believe your exact words were " YOU WILL RECIEVE ACTUAL CARD LISTED ABOVE AND PICTURE BELOW "

What a joke.

Either you don't pay very close attention to your inventory or you did this on purpose. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but based on your last two replies trying to put this on me and play stupid are obvious signs you know exactly what you did. Very disappointing."


His reply (I love him using his feedback like Wonder Woman's bracelets of deflection
"Yes your right I did this on purpose look at my feedback I rip people off all the time are U sure the back is the same or did I do it with mirrors , obviously if I was trying to rip you off I wouldn't say I would take it back. or reply to any emails I replied back immediately and continue to do so.

I did not try to give you a hard time or as you say put it on you I said you could return the card for a FULL REFUND,or didn't I say that I provide good customer service look at all my negatives oh right I don't have that's because I rip people off.

Once again I say as long as you return the card you were sent in teh condition it was sent . you will get a full refund what was so difficult about that,"


F'n tool.... So now what?
I used balance transfer to pay for it...

Axtell

Sounds like he offered up front to refund you the money, and you refused.

Just send it back and get a refund.

envoy98

Yep, he sure did.

With the cute little caveat "you did not send a scan of the back are you saying we changed the SN the front looks the same to me., you are welcome to return the card for a refund provided it is the same card you were shipped same SN# and same condition."

Which of course is impossible to do since this card is different than the one pictured and it has a ding in the corner.

I couldn't trust him to send me the card pictured in the first place, do I trust him to actually refund my money?

KOBEcollector

The seller sounds like a jacka$$ if you ask me

He thought he was slick and got called out . . If your not going to send the card that you scan then don't say you will

Way to go envoy and good luck !!

Dave

envoy98

Thanks, I think I'm going to need it. Those are my thoughts exactly though...he got caught and now he's hiding behind the feedback, isn't that why I bid on 1300+ 100% guys that take paypal in the first place? So this sort of thing doesn't happen?

I don't suppose it's possible to do a chargeback with a bank account transfer is it? I'm more than happy to send the card back and I'm not trying to get something for nothing, but I've never had this happen before so I'm unsure what to do.

goose3

definitely NOT the same card...

maybe he's a moron that "borrows" pictures because he is to damn cheap to buy a scanner.

envoy98

Nah, it's the taken on the same scanner because the card back that is pictured in the auction is the same exact size as the front, but it's the back of the card I got and the front of the "Stunning" card I did not... He's being very nice now...


"Well were at an impass because I will not refund you your money and hope you send the card.no matter what your feedback is or what you say

Call Paypal and ask them what to do. I am not gonna tarnish my record over this either but in any business it is customary to return an unwanted item and them get your refund.

Try calling American express , sears , best buy or any business and ask them to refund your money and then you will return them their item see what they say.

Like I said from the beginning I have no problem retuning your money, immediately upon receipt of the card but only after I get the card back. this is business 101 ...but I'm sure you know that,

My feedback speaks volumes for my integrity.and service."

...not that I really expected him to refund my money first anyway, but it was worth a try. He did escape the caveat of "in the condition pictured" which is progress...he knows what he did, I have no doubts about that. If the card weren't dinged, I wouldn't even care about the "stock" photo, I get stuff like that all the time and it's not a big deal. But when you pitch a card as "Stunning and gradeable" and show "enlarged pics so you can see how beautiful" and then send me this piece of sh*t...well....

FifthScaleRacer

You are in luck...the seller did not "opt out" of Paypal's Buyer Protection Program.

So why don't you just keep the card, and file for Paypal's "Buyer Protection" program!!!

As a buyer, you are eligible for the program if: "You can receive full buyer protection if you pay for an item and never receive it or if you receive an item that you purchased on eBay and it is significantly different from the item that was described in the listing."

To me, the vastly different signatures between the 2 cards qualifies as "significantly different."

more info here:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/paypal-protection.html?

You would be wise save the auction page either by making a PDF file or "print screen" function saved to jpg file. Because the seller might delete all pics from the auction.

ColleSystem

His inability to construct proper sentences, coupled with his mixup of your/you're, give this guy away as being a clown. Good call on refusing his refund offer, as it was definately poisoned.

-Scott

envoy98

<< <i>You are in luck...the seller did not "opt out" of Paypal's Buyer Protection Program.

So why don't you just keep the card, and file for Paypal's "Buyer Protection" program!!!

As a buyer, you are eligible for the program if: "You can receive full buyer protection if you pay for an item and never receive it or if you receive an item that you purchased on eBay and it is significantly different from the item that was described in the listing."

To me, the vastly different signatures between the 2 cards qualifies as "significantly different."

more info here:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/paypal-protection.html?

You would be wise save the auction page either by making a PDF file or "print screen" function saved to jpg file. Because the seller might delete all pics from the auction. >>




Is this different than filing the "Item not as described" via the PayPal dispute? I've had to do that once before and it immeidately closed my dispute and said "This is a buyer/seller problem we can't help you" (or something to that effect). Needless to say, I got nothing.

baseballfanatic

Time for my 2 cents
I have scanned multiple cards which I own also, both fronts and back.
It could have started off as an honest mistake.
When I have doubles and triples of cards laying around, sometimes the only way I know what is what is by the order I scanned them and the pile I put them in.
Yeah, the seller has 100% positive feedback but he has also had 5 negatives removed (I didnt look into what they were for and why they were withdrawn)
I think he could have misunderstood what you were saying originally, which is why he was harping on the number which was on the card.
The face of the card is definately NOT the one which was in the auction, although the back is.
Nowhere in any of his auctions have I read "4 razor sharp corners dripping with gloss"
I think he just provides a large scan to let others see what they are buying since newer cards are generally pack pulled and put right into top loads.
He offered a full refund.
Whats the problem again?

envoy98

<< <i>Time for my 2 cents
I have scanned multiple cards which I own also, both fronts and back.
It could have started off as an honest mistake.
When I have doubles and triples of cards laying around, sometimes the only way I know what is what is by the order I scanned them and the pile I put them in.
Yeah, the seller has 100% positive feedback but he has also had 5 negatives removed (I didnt look into what they were for and why they were withdrawn)
I think he could have misunderstood what you were saying originally, which is why he was harping on the number which was on the card.
The face of the card is definately NOT the one which was in the auction, although the back is.
Nowhere in any of his auctions have I read "4 razor sharp corners dripping with gloss"
I think he just provides a large scan to let others see what they are buying since newer cards are generally pack pulled and put right into top loads.
He offered a full refund.
Whats the problem again? >>




That would be all fine and dandy, if not for this
"The card you won was SN# 230/344 that is the card that was shipped we only had one in inventory, What # are You saying you got. ?"

Not to mention this "Card is in beautiful condition As Pictured Below I have scanned the card against a black background and provided you the option of enlarging the scan so you can see how gorgeous this card actually is... "

or even this..."YOU WILL RECIEVE ACTUAL CARD LISTED ABOVE AND PICTURE BELOW"



So I guess as long as he's willing to provide a refund unconditonally in an attempt to save his feedback (I'm not so curious what the mutual withraws are for now, I can probably guess) I should just call it good?

He tried to job me the first time, do I take the risk of getting screwed once he has the card back besides? I've never sent a card back to someone for a refund before, and considering I fully believe he tried to pull a fast one here, I'm feeling all that warm & fuzzy about the prospect.

SDavid

My advice is to just return it. I think it's unlikely you'd get anything from paypal and you'd just tick him off if you tried. The significantly not as described policy shouldn't be taken too literally as you've found out yourself.

(BTW, I recently received an empty envelope with DC. I paid with a cc and, filed a NAD chargeback. The seller eventually delivered but I received a letter from Visa saying they couldn't promise anything in this type of dispute and they wanted me to obtain a bunch of info - including a signed letter from a qualified merchant stating that the goods didn't meet the seller's description - all within a three day window. Basically, I learned that even winning a NAD complaint with a cc company isn't always a cakewalk, though obviously different cards have different policies.)

Axtell

I understand the frustration with his not sending the same card, but save your headaches for another day.

Take him up on his refund request, and don't ever buy from him again.

It's apparent he is very defensive of that 100% feedback, tell him you'll neg him if he doesn't refund your money.

envoy98

How do I prove to paypal I returned it? Just signature confirmation? Does there have to be a dispute open before I return it for the refund so paypal isn't like "what the hell?"

SDavid

How do I prove to paypal I returned it? Just signature confirmation? Does there have to be a dispute open before I return it for the refund so paypal isn't like "what the hell?"

When I've returned cards to sellers I've always just used delivery confirmation. You don't need to open a paypal dispute for him to refund your payment. Just save his emails where he states that he'll accept a return.

baseballfanatic

Call him and explain the problem.
He could have originally told you "the only one we got" for who knows what reason.
I am not siding with the seller.
You doled out a lot for the card.
People dont usually steal scans for card fronts and then scan their own backs, at least sellers with over 1,000 feedback.
You can edit out most creases and wrinkles and bent corners with photo shop to make a PSA3 look like a PSA 10.
The autograph is the giveaway though. Thats why I always email the seller and ask if it has four razor corners or any blemishes when they only have a "See for yourself" when describing the condition. Gradeable doesnt cut it with me. 2 and 3's are "Gradeable" also. Any card is "gradeable". I find it humorous when thats the one word used to describe a card.
If you send him an email with the cards side my side and then speak to him over the phone, you should be able to iron it out with no problems....

envoy98

I'll wait for his next email and see what it says. I basically told him I'd "return the card for a refund as long as he accepts the fact that it is card #230/344 but does have a ding in the corner and the card was not the one pictured (on the front that is)". If he was willing to concede that then I guess I should be fine with it. I'll let you know how it turns out, hopefully it's better than I'm expecting...I'll admit, I'm worried about this turning into a neg swapping, mutual withdraw once I finally get my refund, sort of debacle. I hope I'm wrong.

Now, once I get my refund, anybody have a PSA 7 Jim Brown RC they wanna sell? I think I'll avoid the modern stuff again for a while.

SDavid

I think I'll avoid the modern stuff again for a while.

No need to do that. Just stay away from the ungraded stuff. If you want to find potential 10's, no problem, just look for nice 9's...or buy raw cards and a nice laser/paper cutter.

envoy98

<< <i> I think I'll avoid the modern stuff again for a while.

No need to do that. Just stay away from the ungraded stuff. If you want to find potential 10's, no problem, just look for nice 9's...or buy raw cards and a nice laser/paper cutter. >>



I actually didn't need it to be a 10, or even expect it to be. I just wanted the card for the short-term speculation. I was going to try and trade it for either a nice Walter Payton auto or something similar. He's great trade-bait these days, and it keeps going up...I figured once it hit $550-600 I'd think about moving it, or on the off chance it was as nice as presented, then maybe I would have it holdered. I wasn't actually looking for a quick grade n' flip on this one, I planned on keeping it for a few months at least. But for what I paid I'd prefer it were at least in NM-MT, which this ding precludes.

Oh and my laser trimmer is borrowed out from the nationals still, regardless though even my super rototrim 5000 couldn't clean up this card.

FifthScaleRacer

Well I've won "Not as Described" complaints twice on Paypal for items that were much less offensive that this.

To me it sounds like this guy had a card with an obvious flaw. So he posted a the front of a different card in hopes the buyer would not notice. Shady all the way.

Stone193

<< <i>YOU WILL RECIEVE ACTUAL CARD LISTED ABOVE AND PICTURE BELOW >>





<< <i>"The card you won was SN# 230/344 that is the card that was shipped we only had one in inventory, What # are You saying you got. ?" >>



Josh - obviously it's NOT the only one in his inventory - and it's also obvious that the back is a match but not the front.

So, it's obvious the guy didn't make a mistake - unless he's mistaken about not be mistaken?

The front scanned card is much nicer and someone screwed up.

I noticed you have quite a few transactions and 100% FB - I think what's good for the goose...

Throw YOUR FB in his face - put him on the defensive - say: "why would a buyer with 100% FB - risk that reputation to lie about a card?"

I think he got busted on this one.

My recommendation? Call the guy on the phone - be calm but firm and say - "we both have good reputations - this is obviously just an oversight on your part - I gave it some thought - I want to give you the same benefit of the doubt that you would want to give me - let's just agree to take back this card and make the appropriate refund - OR send me the other card this must be in the inventory but overlooked in the process - thanx." Or something like this - or do the same with an email. No accusations - just looking for a fair and just resolution.

Good luck
mike

Wizardsguildcards

It may be the only one in his inventory, he may have just used another sellers pic to sell the card.

If you send the card back and have not opened a Paypal dispute then you are at the mercy of the system. I would file the "not as described" with Paypal. If you file with Ebay they will direct you to do this first. At that point Paypal will require you to send it back at your expense with DC or Signature confirmation.

Did you use your CC?? If so and filing through Paypal does not work file the dispute through your CC.


This is why the feedback system is flawed, he has probaly maintained that 100% through dececption, but having that many feedback and still 100% can be viewed as a weakness too the seller will probaly do anything he can to protect that 100%.

envoy98

Thanks guys. I appreciate the feedback. I have another account with nearly 800 fb that I decided to just use as a selling ID and take up my wife's account as my buying id in an attempt to build up some of her feedback in the meantime. I was never worried about getting her a neg since I always pay within a day or two via paypal.

The really funny thing is, I won a Pujols RC Auto fro $250 less than they normally sell for and that seller (700 fb, 100%) emails me immediately after the auction stating "If you can't pay immediately I have another buyer for this card who will pay the going rate, please let me know. As you know you could sell this tomorrow for $650) So being that I was worried about that transaction, I acutually purchased the $23 paypal money back guarantee. As it turns out, that guy sent my package express next day USPS for $14.40 and only charged me $6.55. Funny how things turn out like that sometimes. <shrug>