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Why are the borders so large on this Mantle?

Kurtman9Kurtman9 Posts: 553
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
I've never seen borders so wide on this particular card. Do you think it might be a sheet cut card? I am considering whether to purchase this card, so opinions welcomed.

image
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Comments

  • bri2327bri2327 Posts: 3,178 ✭✭
    Looks ok to me....big scan though so it can be deceiving.....here is another for reference....

    image
    "The other teams could make trouble for us if they win."
    -- Yogi Berra

    image
  • earlycalguyearlycalguy Posts: 1,247 ✭✭
    looks fine to me also. nicely centered.
  • zef204zef204 Posts: 4,742 ✭✭
    I think they look so big because most others out there have gone thru the chop shop.
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  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,607 ✭✭✭✭
    I wouldn't worry about it. It's the cards that are undersized that find their way into holders that scare me. That Mantle looks good.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • 52mantlebuyer52mantlebuyer Posts: 36
    could be erased borders
  • digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    Oh wow, I haven't seen something like this before (not that I've handled a lot of Mantles, just a lot of SF Giants cards). Good call 52mantlebuyer. Unless this is some variation I haven't heard of, you've got an altered card.

    Check out the right border, and line it up with the "S" in "YANKEES" on both cards.

    On the ungraded example, the right border of the "S" lines up with the right border of the picture.
    In the graded example, it goes over a bit. You can also see that part of the picture is missing if you compare some of the scenery detail in both pictures.

    Plus, look at the team name. It's not centered on the graded example.

    .....
    I wonder how long before this thread goes "poof"...
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  • A761506A761506 Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭
    Very interesting...

    I'm curious to know what is going on here...

    I doubt 2 original versions exist, so that would mean that the card in the PSA 8 holder is either erased somehow along the right border, or the card is a counterfeit entirely, which is probably the better guess. It's unlikely a grader would think too much about a 64 Mantle being a counterfeit... especially if it's a high quality one. I'd like to see a picture of the back... that would make it much easier to tell if the card is authentic or not. It's difficult to replicate the solid ink originally used by Topps - a fake would likely be printed entirely in half-tone on the back, which would make the text appear a little rough, not really crisp like it is on an authentic.
  • jfkheatjfkheat Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Also look at the spacing between the letters in MICKEY MANLTE and OUTFIELD. The letters are closer together in the graded one. Look at the picture closely. On the edge of the picture to the right of Mantles sleeve there is a small tan? color blob in the bleachers. In the graded card the blob is closer to the edge of the picture.
    James
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,607 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>could be erased borders >>



    What do you mean by erased?
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • calleochocalleocho Posts: 1,569 ✭✭
    here is one from the registry ( frank e. )

    image
    "Women should be obscene and not heard. "
    Groucho Marx
  • helionauthelionaut Posts: 1,555 ✭✭
    Erasing white bordered cards is an old trick to clean them up. It means literally taking an eraser and rubbing the card so dirt is removed. I couldn't say for sure obviously, but it the card is question is a candidate. The way the S in Yankees sticks out past the edge of the photo is one clue. If the red was so far out of register, the picture would be completely out of focus, and the yellow would have to be, too, as I assume they used CMYK printing. The other thing is the vertical edges of the photo are all fuzzy, no hard lines like at the top and bottom, or as seen in the other examples. The upper right corner should be a hard 90 degrees of almost-black, but it's not, there's a little flare at the corner.

    Also, the whole card looks kind of fuzzy. While that's likely because the scan is not the best, the shell of the slab looks sharp but the card and flip, which aren't directly on the glass, are not as clear. The edges of the letters in the name and position as fuzzy. The whole thing looks like a laser-printer on not-very-high resolution. Also, that type of slab is always a little off-putting, as it's missing the 4 notches on the sides that are normally clear through the beveled surface. Again it's tough to say, but the edges of the slab look cloudy. But if that number is an indication, it's probably a very old slab.
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  • Bosox1976Bosox1976 Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kurt:

    If you have doubts now, you will always have doubts and won't enjoy the card to the extent that one should enjoy a beautiful Mantle. My two cents is to take a pass on this particular card.

    For what it's worth, I agree that the right border has likely been erased or bleached.

    Caveat Emptor on this one.
    Mike
    Bosox1976
  • Kurtman9Kurtman9 Posts: 553
    Wow! I see what everyone is saying about the right border. I think we do indeed have a power-erased border card here that happened to slip by the grader. I am going to pass on this one for sure. Thanks much - this board is awesome! Btw, here also is a scan of the reverse that the seller was finally willing to send after some persuading...

    image
    Collecting Vintage Baseball.
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  • jmbkb4jmbkb4 Posts: 2,963
    Paranoia, Paranoia. The card is fine.
  • digdugdigdug Posts: 216 ✭✭
    don't buy it
  • A761506A761506 Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭
    Can't be certain from the scan, but it definitely looks like a counterfeit to me. And the scan quality isn't as bad as it appears, as the label is crystal clear... the text appears to be printed in half-tone - it's not very crisp because it's made up of a bunch of tiny dots.

    Either way, smart move taking a pass.
  • digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭


    << <i>Can't be certain from the scan, but it definitely looks like a counterfeit to me. And the scan quality isn't as bad as it appears, as the label is crystal clear... the text appears to be printed in half-tone - it's not very crisp because it's made up of a bunch of tiny dots. >>



    Since the image is obviously missing part of it's right side, if it is counterfeit, the counterfeiter must have used an altered Mantle card as his template! Rather ironic.
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  • MantleMarisFordBerraMantleMarisFordBerra Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭
    How does PSA check against counter fitting? What about that counter fit/reprint '55 Bowman is a PSA 9 another thread talked about? I always thought if it was graded by PSA,SGC, or GAI it was a real card. How can something like this slip by?
  • calleochocalleocho Posts: 1,569 ✭✭
    its very hard to be 100% sure that the card is a counterfit by just looking at a blurry scan.

    However while its very unlikely to get a fake card from any of the major grading companies, a collector should take pride in learning as much as possible so that he is not a victim of lousy grading or fraud.

    "Women should be obscene and not heard. "
    Groucho Marx
  • jmbkb4jmbkb4 Posts: 2,963


    << <i>Paranoia, Paranoia. The card is fine. >>


    image
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