<< <i><<A fair price for these would be the MS-60 price. We're not talking about known, single rare coins here.>>
Sorry, but that's incorrect. If the bags can be opened and the coins inspected (which would provide information about the "known, single rare coins"), a fair price would be dependent upon the dates and the quality of the coins, sight-seen. There has been no indication that this would/could not be an option.
Even if, for some reason, the bags couldn't be inspected first, based upon the odds/typical grade distributions within bags of silver dollars, an MS60 price would likely favor the buyer and be unfair to the seller. >>
How much are you going to charge for your time and expertise to examine the coins? >>
That would need to be worked out in advance between the buyer and the seller. However, such a charge would certainly be considerably less than the potential difference in value between figuring the coins as MS60's, compared to their actual grades and value.
<< It seems that if this really is a never-opened mint-sewn bag, the minimum grade these coins could have is MS-60. Many of them are probably considerably better. They might average 62 or 63.
Maybe making an initial offer based on the MS-60 common-date coin would be fine if you also paid an additional amount to the seller after opening them and seeing either a better date or a decent number of the dollars in considerably better condition than 60.>>
Realistically, especially if S-mints are involved, the average grade could be higher than that. If a sale is made before the bags are unsealed and the contents examined, there is a great likelihood that one party will get a very good deal and the other, a very bad deal. If one is at all concerned about the fairness to BOTH parties, the coins should not trade sight-unseen.
Use a burning cigaret to make a small hole in the bag. Then get a pocket light and shine trough the bags. When you rumble the coins very peacefull, you can easily check out the dates and MM.
This is described in the Red Book Of Morgan Dollars by QDB.
Don't know if this fact was mentioned earlier in the thread, but for all the very young collectors out there -
These bags were dispensed directly from the US Depository in Washington DC, and when the was a very big run on these (I suppose in 1963/1964) and the silver value started to exceed face value, the US Gov't stopped dispensing them at FACE VALUE.
Yep, the deal was, you stood in line with $1000 (I believe silver certificates) and you were handed a bag, as they came, no choice of Date/MM, and only one bag per person in line. There were accounts of the line stretching over a mile toward the end of the run, nearly over the bridge (I suppose the Key Bridge) into Va. There were bags of 1859-O and 1860-O Seated's in Bu handed out, many, many common date Morgans - but I believe there weren't any CC bags. Those were set aside for the GSA sales later in the early - then late 70's.
My father passed on a deal to split a bag at face, he didnt want to ante up $500 in 1963 (as it was a decent amt of money) - his friend did go and bought a bag. He made a small fortune on the bag when he disposed of it in 1979/1980. I believe they were 85-O's.
Hello, I can speak from experiance here. First are you sure they are BU? If they are the date and Mint will probably be somewhere on the bag or tag. If they are Circs-YES definately open the bags..There were many key dates in the circulated bags that were released in the early 1960's--My dad would get a bag every Wedneday from the bank and we would pick out all the CC's and better dates in 22 bags we found 5 1893-S's and a few hundred CC's but only one seated dollar a 1859-S. We also got a BU mint sewn bag and it was marked 1904 New Orleans.(1904-O) We disposed of these only a few years ago. Most of the coins graded MS64-66 with a few PL's--Sorry no toners. Aside from just better dates-Today we have all kinds of VAM's and errors to look for. DEFINATELY OPEN THE BAGS and examine each and every coin. It does not take very long to evaluate 2000 coins. Even if you only look at 50 a day it will only take 40 days to go over them all. It is likely that there are some very gem coins if it is a BU bag. Yes there are still some around that haven't been touched-but it would have been much too tempting for me. To see what it would bring just put it on ebay with a ridiculous reserve and find out. JMHO. Bob
<< <i>Maybe these 2 unopened bags are some of the missing 1895 Philadelphia business strikes. >>
Could you imagine? You would be hunted down and shot by those that have them now? What would 2000 business strikes do to the market? Heck, contact NGC, have them slabbed as the, "old lady hoard?"
First off, the bags have not been seen yet. Second, the lady just stated that they were sewn closed. She wasn't asking for premiums on the bags, that was the OP's question. Third, a re-sewn bag is easily detected. The material used in these is quite thick and durable along with the thread and needles used to sew them. When you pop the seam, it leaves little holes across the bag.
Finally, I'd open the suckers if that is what the seller wanted to do. If not, then offer a fair price for the bags and take your chances.
What I would really like to see is a follow up from the OP on what happens!
Edited to add: I almost forgot, as far as adding value to the bags, what could you possibly do to add value to a sewn bag? Additionally, the guy who originally purchased these might just have been the type of guy who didn't trust banks! My brother-in-law's father was like that so instead of making deposits on his savings, he purchased bulk silver coins and buried them under his house! My brother-in-Law came back with his inheritance in 5 gallon buckets! Franklins, Kennedies, Washingtons, Morgans, and Peace!
One last thing, he also had bags of Morgans that were labeled in $325 bags. I forgot to see who labeled them as such because I was too excited about seeing that much raw silver in my garage! Ha ha ha ha!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
The mints, sub-treasuries/reserve banks and many commercial banks reused the canvas dollar bags. The date printed on a bag (if there is one) may not be what is in the bag or it may contain mixes circulated dollars (as in the GSA sales). As a kid, the local bank called to say they had gotten in several bags of dollars and I could come look through them for my collection. Some bags contained what was marked on the outside, others did not.
I stood in line with my father and many other people in the mid 1960's when the Federal Reserve of New York were giving out silver dollar in quantity either by buying mint sewn bags or loose silver dollars depending on your choice. They were available only when redeeming your $ silver certificates at face value.
I remember the man in front of me was with his son as well and they bought a mint sewn bag of silver dollars at face value ($1000) plus some loose silver dollars.
I also remember the talk was that half of the mint sewn bags had in fact been resewn by the US Mint to store the circulated silver dollars no one wanted.
In fact, the man took a peek at his bag with his son and they were all circulated silver dollars. Yet they were in the "mint sewn" bag.
I never forgot that day in my life. It was so exciting.
i don't really see where 291fifth is that far off the mark. the seller should certainly try to get the best price for what's in an unopened bag, but absent opening the bag for an inspection any price is a risk since fraud is always a consideration. a price of $15-$20k includes a premium over melt and seems fair, if it's the best offer i'd think the seller should be satisfied.
"happy talk" is a good term used at a good time. the majority of responses seem to accept(with no reason to justify the acceptance) that the bag is original and contains Mint fresh coins.
<< I stood in line with my father and many other people in the mid 1960's when the Federal Reserve of New York were giving out silver dollar in quantity either by buying mint sewn bags or loose silver dollars depending on your choice. >> Oreville: I am interested to know what Silver Dollar dates and conditions you and your father received during this nostalgic and very interesting experience...
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
<<the majority of responses seem to accept(with no reason to justify the acceptance) that the bag is original and contains Mint fresh coins.>>
I haven't done the math, but believe the majority of the responses on the subject suggest opening the bags (rather than transacting business) first. That isn't presuming or accepting anything about what is contained therein.
Hell I would buy them just to replace my pillows on my bed with them. i would sleep on them musty smelling bags of morgans every night with a big smile on my face! every morning would be like the tooth fairy had come to visit
Comments
Just a thought.
<< <i><<A fair price for these would be the MS-60 price. We're not talking about known, single rare coins here.>>
Sorry, but that's incorrect. If the bags can be opened and the coins inspected (which would provide information about the "known, single rare coins"), a fair price would be dependent upon the dates and the quality of the coins, sight-seen. There has been no indication that this would/could not be an option.
Even if, for some reason, the bags couldn't be inspected first, based upon the odds/typical grade distributions within bags of silver dollars, an MS60 price would likely favor the buyer and be unfair to the seller. >>
How much are you going to charge for your time and expertise to examine the coins? >>
That would need to be worked out in advance between the buyer and the seller. However, such a charge would certainly be considerably less than the potential difference in value between figuring the coins as MS60's, compared to their actual grades and value.
<< It seems that if this really is a never-opened mint-sewn bag, the minimum grade these coins could have is MS-60. Many of them are probably considerably better. They might average 62 or 63.
Maybe making an initial offer based on the MS-60 common-date coin would be fine if you also paid an additional amount to the seller after opening them and seeing either a better date or a decent number of the dollars in considerably better condition than 60.>>
Realistically, especially if S-mints are involved, the average grade could be higher than that. If a sale is made before the bags are unsealed and the contents examined, there is a great likelihood that one party will get a very good deal and the other, a very bad deal. If one is at all concerned about the fairness to BOTH parties, the coins should not trade sight-unseen.
Use a burning cigaret to make a small hole in the bag. Then get a pocket light and shine trough the bags. When you rumble the coins very peacefull, you can easily check out the dates and MM.
This is described in the Red Book Of Morgan Dollars by QDB.
Dennis
Like VOC Numismatics on facebook
These bags were dispensed directly from the US Depository in Washington DC, and when the was a very big run on these (I suppose in 1963/1964) and the silver value started to exceed face value, the US Gov't stopped dispensing them at FACE VALUE.
Yep, the deal was, you stood in line with $1000 (I believe silver certificates) and you were handed a bag, as they came, no choice of Date/MM, and only one bag per person in line. There were accounts of the line stretching over a mile toward the end of the run, nearly over the bridge (I suppose the Key Bridge) into Va. There were bags of 1859-O and 1860-O Seated's in Bu handed out, many, many common date Morgans - but I believe there weren't any CC bags. Those were set aside for the GSA sales later in the early - then late 70's.
My father passed on a deal to split a bag at face, he didnt want to ante up $500 in 1963 (as it was a decent amt of money) - his friend did go and bought a bag. He made a small fortune on the bag when he disposed of it in 1979/1980. I believe they were 85-O's.
<< <i>Maybe there are 1873-S dollars in there. >>
They only minted 700 of those, reportedly -- not even enough to fill one bag.
To see what it would bring just put it on ebay with a ridiculous reserve and find out.
JMHO. Bob
<< <i>Maybe these 2 unopened bags are some of the missing 1895 Philadelphia business strikes. >>
Could you imagine? You would be hunted down and shot by those that have them now? What would 2000 business strikes do to the market? Heck, contact NGC, have them slabbed as the, "old lady hoard?"
The seller isn't obligated to do a darn thing to "enhance" their value. As was already pointed out to
you, your assumption is ridiculous.
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The seller isn't obligated to do a darn thing to "enhance" their value. As was already pointed out to
you, your assumption is ridiculous.
...............................
Well at least he didn't do anything to detract from their value. We hope anyhow!!
First off, the bags have not been seen yet. Second, the lady just stated that they were sewn closed. She wasn't asking for premiums on the bags, that was the OP's question.
Third, a re-sewn bag is easily detected. The material used in these is quite thick and durable along with the thread and needles used to sew them. When you pop the seam, it leaves little holes across the bag.
Finally, I'd open the suckers if that is what the seller wanted to do. If not, then offer a fair price for the bags and take your chances.
What I would really like to see is a follow up from the OP on what happens!
Edited to add: I almost forgot, as far as adding value to the bags, what could you possibly do to add value to a sewn bag? Additionally, the guy who originally purchased these might just have been the type of guy who didn't trust banks! My brother-in-law's father was like that so instead of making deposits on his savings, he purchased bulk silver coins and buried them under his house! My brother-in-Law came back with his inheritance in 5 gallon buckets! Franklins, Kennedies, Washingtons, Morgans, and Peace!
One last thing, he also had bags of Morgans that were labeled in $325 bags. I forgot to see who labeled them as such because I was too excited about seeing that much raw silver in my garage! Ha ha ha ha!
The name is LEE!
I remember the man in front of me was with his son as well and they bought a mint sewn bag of silver dollars at face value ($1000) plus some loose silver dollars.
I also remember the talk was that half of the mint sewn bags had in fact been resewn by the US Mint to store the circulated silver dollars no one wanted.
In fact, the man took a peek at his bag with his son and they were all circulated silver dollars. Yet they were in the "mint sewn" bag.
I never forgot that day in my life. It was so exciting.
"happy talk" is a good term used at a good time. the majority of responses seem to accept(with no reason to justify the acceptance) that the bag is original and contains Mint fresh coins.
Oreville: I am interested to know what Silver Dollar dates and conditions you and your father received during this nostalgic and very interesting experience...
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
<< <i>I wonder if you could x-ray the bags to determine the date?
Just a thought. >>
not enough contrast in thickness to see date on coins with xray. Already tried it.
I haven't done the math, but believe the majority of the responses on the subject suggest opening the bags (rather than transacting business) first. That isn't presuming or accepting anything about what is contained therein.