So-Called Dollar Experts - What can you tell me about this Manila Bay? SHE'S MINE!

tmot99

Here is a copper example of the Manila Bay (HK-280). The book, as is well known for incompleteness, lists only white metal which this obviously isn't.

My questions:
1) Has anyone ever seen another one in copper?
2) If not, could this be a specimen?
3) Any knowledge of known specimen?

Here is the coin for display.




I might just add that my photography skills are getting better.

Edit: Ok, when I originally posted this, the coin didn't belong to me. I made an offer to buy this and the offer was accepted. She's at NGC now for grading. This would be the first one they will grade (even though they have seen it once before and returned it as an unrecognized variety). I'll post what she grades in a couple of weeks.

DUIGUY

HOLY TOLEDO !! AAARRRRGH & AAARRRGH again !! Excuse me while I go BEAT my head against a WALL !! ( Tom knows what I am talking about )

jonathanb

I saw one on eBay sometime within the last 6 months or so. It sold for more-than-I-wanted-to-pay-but-not-exorbitantly -- probably in the $50-$100 range. If I remember right, that specimen had marks from a claw hanger at the top, so I think yours must not be the same piece.

In any case, that's a gorgeous specimen. I love old copper.

jonathan

keets

i think Hibler-Kappen put there reference together over the course of 3-4 years. certainly they had more years than that of researching and studying, but that was quite a while ago. by their very nature many of the issues in the book are elusive and low mintage so "off metal" strikings which seem like discoveries are only typical rare issues that they hadn't seen. this is an area where more organization at the club website and club meetings at major shows would help, getting us a better idea of what exists that wasn't mentioned in the original publication.

for instance, take a quick peak at Kenney's short manual and you find only 181 listings. during the less than 10 years between the two books we moved to 1000 issues. what we have with the next one is anyone's guess, but my cynical nature tells me that we'll have whatever the writer sees fit to add for his own reasons. if there were a coordinated attempt to classify ALL medals known to hobbyists i think we'd find a more concise listing of what was really struck over the years. that's a daunting task and one that could be better accomplished, in my mind, if less emphasis were placed on writing a new book and some effort were directed at updating an already competent listing. it's very discouraging to see the writer of the new book spending his time as a promoter for personal gain while the website, which we've paid dues to be able to access, remains forever under construction and habitually inaccessible. it's gotten to the point where i rarely even visit-----why invite frustration from not being able to login and not being able to communicate with a website manager???

sorry i got off on a tangential rant, the piece has a nice look, a nice theme and a nice low mintage. i always try to choose a combination of those three factors!!!

DUIGUY

I agree with KEETS !!

tmot99

Anybody else have anything to add?

tmot99

ttt for the Sunday crowd. Has anyone seen this SCD in copper before?

MadMarty

<< <i>Anybody else have anything to add? >>




Yes I do, YOU SUCK!!!

Conder101

Sounds to me like what the club NEEDS is for someone with website management experience to step in and volenteer to take over running the website so that it will become an asset to the club.

tmot99

<< <i>Sounds to me like what the club NEEDS is for someone with website management experience to step in and volenteer to take over running the website so that it will become an asset to the club. >>



Just about every link on the website doesn't work. Even the page for joining. I tried to send an email to "The Club" and it was returned not deliverable.

ANACONDA

Brandon (poorguy) knows quite a bit about So-called Dollars. You might want to PM him with your question.

dealmakr

Hi tmot,

If the piece is the same size 22 as the white metal piece, it would be another different metal composition that HK didn't pickup on maybe to designate as HK-280A (Bronze). I have searched for many of these types of non listed pieces with different metal compositions and you would be surprised to see how many there are. If anyone would like a copy of an excell spreadsheet listing what we have found so far you can PM me with your email address. This spreadsheet is by no means complete and is constantly being updated as new additions arrive. I am going to add this Bronze piece to it.

Regards,

dealmakr

cadmanco

First of all I'll start off by agreeing with Keets! Thankx for the rant.....but it definitely hits the nail on the head....

Secondly, I also have the copper variety, as shown here by TMOT99... Mine appears to be a possible proof strike...
Mine was purchased on eBay in April of 2003 for around $50.. I think these are really nice looking pieces, when struck in the copper or bronze, in fact
probably better looking than the HK listed white metal piece....

I'll try and scan it and post a picture later....

DUIGUY

<< <i>First of all I'll start off by agreeing with Keets! Thankx for the rant.....but it definitely hits the nail on the head....

Secondly, I also have the copper variety, as shown here by TMOT99... Mine appears to be a possible proof strike...
Mine was purchased on eBay in April of 2003 for around $50.. I think these are really nice looking pieces, when struck in the copper or bronze, in fact
probably better looking than the HK listed white metal piece....

I'll try and scan it and post a picture later.... >>




$50.00 !! Damn nice pick up !!

cadmanco

These are some quick scans of the one I have. My scanner didn't do it justice.... There are proof/proof-like surfaces on botth sides..the scanner seemed to amplify all the finger spots and etc. I'll be sending this one through NCS (I like to send my copper stuff through them..they do a GREAT job) and then onto NGC for final slabbing...with any luck..and this one should make it fine... Wheher they'll call it proof or prooflike is yet to be seen....

tmot99

Wow. Thanks for the info. Nice pick up for $50! Mine will cost me a whole lot more than that if I can even convince the current owner to sell.

tmot99

She's mine. All mine. I bought her this morning. Along with some other goodies. I'm working on some better pictures, but having lots of problems with them.

keets

just get 'em up!!!

coindeuce

Keets is right on! Stick 'em up!!
BTW, I would like very much to see the so-called.org site become functional again. I know the frustration of trying to research unlisted SCD's (by unknown composition) as well. I'll share images of my unlisted SCD's(HK-631x? Cazenovia Centennial, Copper proof/HK-119x? Battle of Saratoga, Copper proof) if the website ever revives.

dealmakr

Hi tmot,

I just aquired this piece also Ebay#140021856278, sorry I don't know how to link this, but its in an NGC holder as MS 64 and you should be able to see how yours will look when holdered.

regards,

dave

tmot99

You suck! I paid much more than that for it. I looked at pop reports last week and I didn't see it there. I wonder why?

cadmanco

Dealmakr:

Super find.....great price...Nice Grade......

cadmanco

tmot99:

I have many that were slabbed months back that still do not show in the Pop Report... They aren't keeping it real current.
Sometimes things get added pretty fast and others never show up??????

Yours should slab very well.... Nice medal