Old dealers don't like PSA because....

incugator

Old dealers don't like PSA because card grading has cost them thousands of dollars. Now that cards (especially vintage) have a true standard for grading, these dealers can't get away will selling a card with rounded corners for 90% of book value. POP reports show how 'rare' a card really is. Many dealers have some kind of conspiracy theory about card grading. I've heard that PSA changes cards. I've heard that PSA plays favorites. I've heard that PSA will promise grades to some big dealers. My favorite comment is from a guy said that he would sell a card raw to somebody and they would bring it back to him and sell it to him for more than he sold it raw. GET THE CARD GRADED YOURSELF!!!!


People that have these conspiracy theory claims need to look at the actual card. With the exception of some 8's,9's and 10's, it is clear to see if PSA when has made a mistake. Let's face it, there are humans grading these cards, but most of the time, the standard is easy to follow. It's better than picking up a card at a show with crappy lighting and getting home only to realize that there is a gum stain or wrinkle in the card. Dealers will never tell you that PSA facilitates online sales by providing authentication. This takes away from them as well. These old dealers are not willing to admit that their cards arn't mint, and they won't adjust to the new market or a standard for cards.

Second topic,

I've talked to a few people that went to the Nat'l recently and they said "things were overpriced" On the same note many dealers claimed to have a very successful showing. Does anybody not see this as simply supply and demand? If cards were overpriced, nobody would've bought them. People were willing to pay the prices at these card shows, meaning that they are worth 'market value' It may be possilbe that mid-high grade vintage cards (1900-1959) were undervalued during the 90's. It is hard to find these cards centered with nice corners. Most people who were kids during these time periods have high amounts of disposible income and might be willing to pay quite a bit of money for these cards the way they looked when they came out of the pack. I wasn't around during this time period, but I'd much rather have an Ex-Mt 53 Jackie Robinson than a PSA 10 auto'd Lebron James.

I hope that everybody that went to the show had a safe return home. I know that we had a motorcycle accident on the way out, but he ended up okay.

TWOHOOKS

Right on target about the dealers who put down card grading.Can you imagine where this industry would be without it right now,where the majority of items are sold on E-bay.Even the big boys at the National were all referring to what items were selling for on E-bay.I still believe a lot of dealers cycle through collections they've bought by putting the top end material after it gets graded in high end auctions like Mastro.Mile High,Heritage or whatever.Why in God's name would they want to cart them around to the next card show where most collectors aren't going to spend $4,000.00 on a card.The mid-level items go on E-bay and the junk goes to the card show as ungraded "near mint".Take a look at some of the ungraded trash at some of these tables.You know these dealers are way too smart to be buying this junk by itself.They are the garbage cards leftover from collection purchases that they don't want to submit for grading since the grading fees will outweigh what the card is worth.Or they will come back with PSA 2 OR PSA 3 grades and no one will want them anyway.

One big time dealer who also runs his own auctions was at the National and had some exhibit cards that they bring to every show and never sell because they are just total junk.The few good ones they had were priced higher than PSA 8's you can buy on E-bay already graded.Really if you go to a lot of these shows take a look at how much of this stuff you see over and over again.I just can't imagine the time it must take to cart most of this around.Most of these junk card I'm sure are pure profit if and when they do sell since the dealer has made his money back and then some on the high to mid-grade items from the collection purchase already.

I went to the National looking for exhibit cards.Luckily I found 2 unopened 1947 packs which are very rare.But for the rest of the show I believe I purchased a grand total of 5 raw cards that were even close to be good enough to be graded.Now keep in mind this is the National with over 400 dealers !There were so many trashed raw exhibit cards it was ridiculous.Throw the junk out.If I were only a collector I wouldn't want any of this in my collection.It is pitiful.Of course they don't believe in grading,not this type of material.But how many good looking 1956 Mickey Mantle cards do you see left ungraded?If there are any it's probably trimmed and labeled as the infamous "near mint".

fiveniner

Mike and Ryan I fully agree.

ssgunnip

Incugator hit the nail directly on the head. I can't tell you how many times I have heard those same canned responses from my local dealer about PSA conspiracies. I think they are all reading a manual put out by a some secret non-graded dealer society. The next time I enter a dealers store, I will jump over the counter and look for this manual. They must be hiding it like the old bartender with a shotgun beneath the register.

Secondly, anyone who knows anything about a free market economy will tell you supply and demand influence price. It is not rocket science. Furthermore, "available" supply is even more important. I know that a card that I need that has not shown up on Ebay in a while will usually go higher if other collectors need it also. I have a 63 PSA 8 Nitschke RC that I recently picked up. I can't tell you how many people are offering me significant premiums to what I paid, not because there are only 10 of them- there are actually 57 I believe, but because all those die hard Packers collectors are hoarding their Nitschke's and don't let them see the light of day.

I know that sometimes prices get out of whack, but eventually supply and demand will bring them in line. What I am willing to pay for a card is what it is worth to me- no more or no less. I have overpaid in others minds time and again, but the smile on my face when I tear open a bubble mailer and the thought that I will never have to search for that White Whale again are worth a few extra Washingtons/Jeffersons.

stevek

Whenever visiting Cooperstown, check out the local card shops which are in close walking distance of the Hall. These card shops epitomize the defintion of a rip-off tourist trap. I visited Cooperstown three summers ago and I don't recall seeing a single graded card in any of the card shops - not one graded card in about ten card shops!

Of course there are many card shops out there owned by weasel card shop owners who don't offer graded cards. I sometimes like to have fun with them and ask them if they have any graded cards, when they don't have any in their cases and obviously don't want to sell any - it's fun listening to their spins about why they don't sell graded cards and why graded cards aren't worth the money - bunch of stinkin' weasels!

I remember asking a particular dealer about a raw 62 Mantle he had in his case, and what he thought a company such as PSA would grade it. It was a 2 at best, and he said it would receive at least a 5. And of course he wanted 5 type money for the card - another stinkin' weasel cardshop owner.

itzagoner

<< <i>Whenever visiting Cooperstown, check out the local card shops which are in close walking distance of the Hall. These card shops epitomize the defintion of a rip-off tourist trap. I visited Cooperstown three summers ago and I don't recall seeing a single graded card in any of the card shops - not one graded card in about ten card shops!

Of course there are many card shops out there owned by weasel card shop owners who don't offer graded cards. I sometimes like to have fun with them and ask them if they have any graded cards, when they don't have any in their cases and obviously don't want to sell any - it's fun listening to their spins about why they don't sell graded cards and why graded cards aren't worth the money - bunch of stinkin' weasels!

I remember asking a particular dealer about a raw 62 Mantle he had in his case, and what he thought a company such as PSA would grade it. It was a 2 at best, and he said it would receive at least a 5. And of course he wanted 5 type money for the card - another stinkin' weasel cardshop owner. >>



i visited Cooperstown 4 summers ago, and had the very same experience visiting the Tourist Trap Card Shop Mecca....i doubt that i've ever been as perplexed by what i saw in these stores, than for anything else i've seen in this hobby....the good thing was, i heard a number of people in these stores chuckling to themselves about the ridiculous pricing of cards, etc....just for fun, i asked a dealer if he had any "oddball stuff" so he proceded to show me every overpriced sticker and patch he could find and laid it all out on the counter....then i had my wife come tell me she thot the rental van had been stolen, and we left

incugator

I'd love to hear some of the reasons dealers say they don't get their cards graded. It's funny.

I've gotten to know one of the local dealers in Scottsdale. His name is Bob. He is the only dealer within 25 miles of me that has fair prices and gets cards graded. Amazingly enough, his store always has people in it. He treats the kids that buy $1-$2 packs the same way he treats a 70 year old guy putting togther is 52 set. He'll tell you "PSA slammed me with 5's and 6's when I first submitted, but 5's and 6's are still pretty nice looking cards"

All the other dealers in the area don't like Bob. They say "he is in North Scottsdale and that's where all the money is" or "He's willing to spend more money than he makes" or my favorite "He thinks his stuff is better than everybody elses" The truth is, He is in North Scottsdale and he is in an area where kids have some money to spend and their parents make good living. He pays a little more for nice cards than the other dealers and can sell them for more because they are nice cards and his stuff is better than everyone elses.

This shows that there are some good card dealers. If there were more dealers like Bob, fewer people would look to e-bay to buy cards. Unfortunely, I've gotten all of Bob's nice Goudey's.

Ahmanfan

Well, the shop I used to work in (and still frequent) had basically zero graded cards, but I've gotten nice stuff for fair prices. he doesn't sell VG stuff at NM prices. He sells VG stuff at VG prices. If a card is creased, that automatic 10% beckett.

John

stevek

<< <i>I'd love to hear some of the reasons dealers say they don't get their cards graded. It's funny.

I've gotten to know one of the local dealers in Scottsdale. His name is Bob. He is the only dealer within 25 miles of me that has fair prices and gets cards graded. Amazingly enough, his store always has people in it. He treats the kids that buy $1-$2 packs the same way he treats a 70 year old guy putting togther is 52 set. He'll tell you "PSA slammed me with 5's and 6's when I first submitted, but 5's and 6's are still pretty nice looking cards"

All the other dealers in the area don't like Bob. They say "he is in North Scottsdale and that's where all the money is" or "He's willing to spend more money than he makes" or my favorite "He thinks his stuff is better than everybody elses" The truth is, He is in North Scottsdale and he is in an area where kids have some money to spend and their parents make good living. He pays a little more for nice cards than the other dealers and can sell them for more because they are nice cards and his stuff is better than everyone elses.

This shows that there are some good card dealers. If there were more dealers like Bob, fewer people would look to e-bay to buy cards. Unfortunely, I've gotten all of Bob's nice Goudey's. >>



Sounds like an outstanding dealer and certainly there are some excellent card shops out there. Nothing wrong whatsoever with making an honest buck or even a lot of honest bucks when operating a card shop the right way like this example.