Australian 'holey' dollars...
a039
Posts: 1,546 ✭
Great article in World Coin News on Australian 'holey' dollars.40,000 spanish dollars turned into two coins by punching the center out and using the outer ring or the 'holey' for Five shillings and the center piece or the 'dump' for One shilling and Three Pence around 1813.
Ironically they were produced by William Henshall, who had been sent to New South Wales as a convict for forging coins in the United Kingdom.
A serch of ebay had only modern re-issues(commems) and replicas like the one below
Does anyone here have one of these and or an image?
Ironically they were produced by William Henshall, who had been sent to New South Wales as a convict for forging coins in the United Kingdom.
A serch of ebay had only modern re-issues(commems) and replicas like the one below
Does anyone here have one of these and or an image?
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The search is on!
P.S. I love the irony
8 Reales Madness Collection
You might want to bring a long a LOT of money as well. Both sections of that coin are rare and very expensive.
Chicolini: Mint? No, no, I no like a mint. Uh - what other flavor you got?
<< <i>The search is on!
You might want to bring a long a LOT of money as well. Both sections of that coin are rare and very expensive.
They are uber-cool, and I doubt I'll ever have the money to buy either the dollar or the dump.
Obscurum per obscurius
As to the irony of a forger turning "legit mintmaster", it's not like the colony had much choice. NSW was a penal settlement; it's only inhabitants were the convicts and their unfortunate guards. So when special skills were needed, they took whoever had the skill - whatever their background.
It's said that more than a few of the "contemporary counterfeits" of the holey dollar were likely to hae been produced produced by Henshall himself. Gives a whole new meaning to "making a little money for yourself on the side"!
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.
NEW SOUTH WALES, five shillings or holey dollar, 1813 (Mira - Noble 1809/12) (dies A/9: I/10) struck on a Ferdinand VII eight reales 1809 T.H. Mexico City Mint. Countermarks clear and nearly very fine, coin worn (or flattened in places) otherwise nearly fine and rare, one of only fourteen of this ruler in private hands.
Estimate $75,000
75000 Australian Dollar(s) = 57307.5 American Dollar(s)
I bet they would take fiddy large....anyone want to chip in?
<< <i>...one of only fourteen of this ruler in private hands. >>
I guess that means other hosts are not as rare. I'll hold on until then
8 Reales Madness Collection
<< <i>As to the irony of a forger turning "legit mintmaster", it's not like the colony had much choice. NSW was a penal settlement; it's only inhabitants were the convicts and their unfortunate guards. So when special skills were needed, they took whoever had the skill - whatever their background. >>
The US Mint did something similar. When we needed an assayer for the first mint we talked Aldion Cox into returning to the US from England where he had fled to after escaping from Debtors Prison, debts he had run up while he was a contract coiner for New Jersey. We ha to clear up his little problem or him before he would come back and then when he got here he couldn't post the required bond. So they reduced the bond. He still couldn't post it so the Director posted it for him and they were fianlly able to coin gold and silver. A few years later after Cox died they had to balance his assay books. They didn't balance. I believe there was around a $5,000 shortage. (Shorted New Jersy, escaped prison, fled the country, to avoid the law, sounds like just the man we need to assay the bullion deposited at the mint.
Well, he seemed like a nice guy at the time.
LordM, did you ever find the dump to your dollar?
Obscurum per obscurius
<< <i>LordM, did you ever find the dump to your dollar? >>
It probably got swept out the door.
<< <i>Seems at prices like this people would be taking 8 reales and making these now for $ how hard would it be? What is a 8 real that this coin was made from worth? >>
Don't give 'em ideas, a039!
Seriously, the holey dollars are so scarce, all known examples of it have been well provenanced. Jim Noble (the guy who owns the auction house selling that coin) and Bill Mira wrote the book some years ago, in which every specimen known at the time was photographed. This one in the link above is number 1809/12 - the twelfth known specimen where the undertype date is 1809.
Genuine "new" ones rarely come onto the market around here, and when they do they're carefully scrutinised by the experts.
Given that more dumps have survived and they have a much simpler design, they'd probably be easier to forge undetected than the dollars, but the same could be said for any primitively struck or counterstamped coin of the period. The "holey dollars" of Prince Edward Island come to mind; easy to forge (the counterstamps are much simpler) and probably more of interest to the North American collectors market, anyway.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.
I bought a Spanish Mexico 1806 dollar (8 reales) for US $38 only because I wanted a 200-year old coin.
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<< <i>Sapyx, So are you an Australian by birth? What kind of coins do you collect, I guess if you collect Australian coins your not technically a darksider or are you-I confused
I was actually born in Canada, But I've lived here in Oz since I was a few weeks old.
Consensus seems to be that for "foreign folks" like me, "Darkside" would mean "collecting stuff from countries other than where you live". So for me, US coins are "darkside" (not that I can afford very many of them...
"Greyside" means "stuff you're likely to find in change where you live" - for me, that would be New Zealand, Fiji, Papua New Guinea, those sorts of places.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.
<< <i><< ...one of only fourteen of this ruler in private hands. >>
I guess that means other hosts are not as rare. I'll hold on until then >>
Just checked my copy of the Mira & Noble book I mentioned; Back then (1988) there were 275 existing specimens, 96 of which were in museums and other public/institutional collections. The total statistical breakdown by undertype monarch was:
Ferdinand VI: 1
Charles III: 32
Charles IV with bust of Charles III: 12
Charles IIII: 208
Ferdinand VII: 21
Worn so flat you can't tell: 1
I don't think they've found more than a few genuine holey dollars since then.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.