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Tips for Buying Coins on eBay by Brandon Kelley
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Posts: 4,692 ✭
Tips for Buying Coins on eBay
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Buying coins on eBay can be risky business. There is a multitude of "bad coins" on eBay and just as many "bad sellers". Watch out, know who you are dealing with, and know what you are buying. There are people on eBay who make a living out of fleecing the unsuspecting public. Here are some tips to help you make sure you get the most out of your eBay hunting:
Red Flags - There are certain aspects of an auction that should raise red flags in your psyche that something is amiss.
Seller has private feedback or their feedback has several recent negatives.
The picture of the coin/coins in the auction are blurry. Never buy what you cannot see even if the seller has a return policy.
The picture of the coin/coins doesn't look like the seller took the photos themselves. Many times crooked sellers will steal images from legitimate websites such as www.coinfacts.com or from other dealers and use it in their auctions to make the buyer think they are receiving the coin in the picture. Ask the seller where they got the picture from.
The seller's account shows no activity for quite some time and suddenly is offering a very rare or expensive coin. Additionally, if the seller's past items were something like CD cases, old DVD's, and machine parts, they most likely are not going to be offering rare coins and the account may have been hi-jacked.
If a seller is offering a NO RESERVE auction starting at 99c on an extremely rare coin or if the coin is offered at well below what the coin typically sells for, there is a strong possibility that the seller is trying to steal your money by having you pay for the item once you win it and never shipping the coin. Most often the images belong to the legitimate seller of the coin and the accounts doing this sort of selling are hijacked accounts.
The seller has a lot of third world slabs in their inventory. For a definition of third world slabs, continue reading. I've listed these below under the list of grading services that do not get a seal of approval from me. You get what you pay for.
A seller promotes a coin as being worth $10,000 but has a buy it now of $500. Most of the time these are either raw coins or have been graded by a third world grading company.
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Not all Certification Services are created equal. I would recommend that buyers of coins on eBay stick with PCGS and NGC certified coins although I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a coin holdered by ANACS or ICG if I thought the coin looked fine.
Some coin grading services that DO NOT get a seal of approval from me. Be very cautious when buying coins certified by these grading services.:
SGS
ACG
PCI
NTC
ANI
Any Coin in a CoinWord do it yourself holder.
Third World Grading Service: Any grading service that has sub-par standards and should generally be avoided. i.e. An MS65 in at a third world grading service can be anywhere from an AU58-MS63. The encapsulations (slabs) used by these grading services are called Third World Slabs.
If you are interested in a coin that is holdered by any of the above listed services, ask yourself why the coin isn't in an NGC or PCGS holder. If NGC and PCGS coins get such a premium, wouldn't it make sense for the seller to get the coin certified by one of these two services? I find it very laughable that a seller would promote a coin as being worth $10,000 and then have a buy it now price of $500. Most often you will see a link to the PCGS price guide (www.pcgs.com/prices) and the coin will be either raw (ungraded) or in a third world slab (see list above). Just remember, you get what you pay for and if something seems too good to be true, it usually is.
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Second Chance Offers and Phishing eMails: I must get 500+ emails a week asking me to log-in to my eBay account for a mulititude of reasons. In addition, whenever I bid on something and lose, I can almost guarantee that I'll get a Second Chance offer asking me to send money if I want the item I just was outbid on. This is usually a scam.
NEVER ANSWER AN EMAIL SUPPOSEDLY FROM EBAY BY CLICKING ON THE YELLOW BUTTON IN YOUR EMAIL. ONLY LOG-IN TO YOUR EBAY ACCOUNT FROM WWW.EBAY.COM AND CLICK ON "MY MESSAGES" TO VIEW ALERTS AND MESSAGES FROM EBAY.
Second Chance Offers - I would say 75% of the second chance offers are bogus and you should contact the seller of the item to ask if the offer is legitimate.
Phishing eMails - These are emails that look like they were sent by eBay, but really were sent by someone trying to get you to click on a link in the email to log-in to you eBay account on a fake webpage designed to look like the eBay log-in page so that they can get your username and password to do all sorts of damage by hijacking your account. Never click on a link in your email to log into your eBay account. Trust me.
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Mystery Lots, Estate Sales, and Dealer Lots - I do not really care if your dear uncle Hermon left you a gold coin on his deathbead, nor do I believe you just purchased a large group of gold coins at an estate sale. Hmm, and those mystery lots are essentially a lottery along with those dealer lots. Be very wary of these types of listings. Remember what I've stated earlier. If it's too good to be true, it probably is. In the case of these types of listings, I can almost guarantee you that you will get the short end of the deal whether you realize it or not.
Mystery lots - These types of listings should be banned from eBay. They essentially take advantage of the gambler in all of us. One gold coin amongst thousands of cheap, searched through, buy by the bucketload, 20th century type coins. $10 for 75c worth of coins with the hopes that you come out with the coin that may be worth $100? Whatever. Stay away!
Estate Sales - A search for the word "estate" drew over 1100 listings on eBay. Mostly, these lots contain a bunch of hum-drum coins, some certified, most raw but in cardboard flips. These are usually combined with various odds and ends and the word "estate" is just keyword spamming to attract those out there who are treasure hunters at heart. It's just marketing.
Dealer Lots - $15,000 catalog value worth of coins starting at 99c with no reserve? Holy cow! This MUST be a great deal. Do not buy into the hype these sellers try to sell. Mostly, these lots will be 90% made up of coins certified by ANACS, ICG, NTC, PCI, and SEGS which all have a market value much less than PCGS or NGC coins. The seller may claim that PCGS and NGC coins are included but don't be fooled. You might get one or the other and it'll probably represent less than $100 of the total value the seller is trying to hype. Again, you get what you pay for. The seller wouldn't continue selling $15,000 worth of coins for $750 if they weren't making money on the deal. So ask yourself, how much are the coins really worth if the seller is still making money and you still think you've got a bargain?
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Raw coins - Know what you are buying before you pull the trigger.
Fake Coins - I stroll through the Trade Dollars and Early Dollars category and nearly every raw coin I see is an obvious fake. Buy PCGS or NGC certified examples. Don't risk your money on raw coins unless you are knowledgable enough to tell what is real.
Artificially Toned Coins - If the coin isn't fake, and it's raw, and it's very colorful, odds are that it is artificially toned. Purple and Blue peace dollars, Neon Blue morgan dollars, and flourescent copper simply make me want to gag. People are buying this stuff because it's cheap and pretty. Do not be fooled into thinking it is original and don't expect to get a premium for it when you sell it, if you even get what the coin is worth without the color. It is now officially a problem coin that most collectors and dealers wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. When buying toned coins, stick with PCGS and NGC.
Grossly Overgraded Coins - I see this so much on eBay it should be a crime. The hype is nauseating. Sellers with AU58 sliders touting the coin or alluding to the coin being MS65+ by posting listing prices from the PCGS price guide www.pcgs.com/prices. Only buy from a trusted dealer if you are buying raw coins or learn to grade them yourself.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buying coins on eBay can be risky business. There is a multitude of "bad coins" on eBay and just as many "bad sellers". Watch out, know who you are dealing with, and know what you are buying. There are people on eBay who make a living out of fleecing the unsuspecting public. Here are some tips to help you make sure you get the most out of your eBay hunting:
Red Flags - There are certain aspects of an auction that should raise red flags in your psyche that something is amiss.
Seller has private feedback or their feedback has several recent negatives.
The picture of the coin/coins in the auction are blurry. Never buy what you cannot see even if the seller has a return policy.
The picture of the coin/coins doesn't look like the seller took the photos themselves. Many times crooked sellers will steal images from legitimate websites such as www.coinfacts.com or from other dealers and use it in their auctions to make the buyer think they are receiving the coin in the picture. Ask the seller where they got the picture from.
The seller's account shows no activity for quite some time and suddenly is offering a very rare or expensive coin. Additionally, if the seller's past items were something like CD cases, old DVD's, and machine parts, they most likely are not going to be offering rare coins and the account may have been hi-jacked.
If a seller is offering a NO RESERVE auction starting at 99c on an extremely rare coin or if the coin is offered at well below what the coin typically sells for, there is a strong possibility that the seller is trying to steal your money by having you pay for the item once you win it and never shipping the coin. Most often the images belong to the legitimate seller of the coin and the accounts doing this sort of selling are hijacked accounts.
The seller has a lot of third world slabs in their inventory. For a definition of third world slabs, continue reading. I've listed these below under the list of grading services that do not get a seal of approval from me. You get what you pay for.
A seller promotes a coin as being worth $10,000 but has a buy it now of $500. Most of the time these are either raw coins or have been graded by a third world grading company.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not all Certification Services are created equal. I would recommend that buyers of coins on eBay stick with PCGS and NGC certified coins although I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a coin holdered by ANACS or ICG if I thought the coin looked fine.
Some coin grading services that DO NOT get a seal of approval from me. Be very cautious when buying coins certified by these grading services.:
SGS
ACG
PCI
NTC
ANI
Any Coin in a CoinWord do it yourself holder.
Third World Grading Service: Any grading service that has sub-par standards and should generally be avoided. i.e. An MS65 in at a third world grading service can be anywhere from an AU58-MS63. The encapsulations (slabs) used by these grading services are called Third World Slabs.
If you are interested in a coin that is holdered by any of the above listed services, ask yourself why the coin isn't in an NGC or PCGS holder. If NGC and PCGS coins get such a premium, wouldn't it make sense for the seller to get the coin certified by one of these two services? I find it very laughable that a seller would promote a coin as being worth $10,000 and then have a buy it now price of $500. Most often you will see a link to the PCGS price guide (www.pcgs.com/prices) and the coin will be either raw (ungraded) or in a third world slab (see list above). Just remember, you get what you pay for and if something seems too good to be true, it usually is.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Second Chance Offers and Phishing eMails: I must get 500+ emails a week asking me to log-in to my eBay account for a mulititude of reasons. In addition, whenever I bid on something and lose, I can almost guarantee that I'll get a Second Chance offer asking me to send money if I want the item I just was outbid on. This is usually a scam.
NEVER ANSWER AN EMAIL SUPPOSEDLY FROM EBAY BY CLICKING ON THE YELLOW BUTTON IN YOUR EMAIL. ONLY LOG-IN TO YOUR EBAY ACCOUNT FROM WWW.EBAY.COM AND CLICK ON "MY MESSAGES" TO VIEW ALERTS AND MESSAGES FROM EBAY.
Second Chance Offers - I would say 75% of the second chance offers are bogus and you should contact the seller of the item to ask if the offer is legitimate.
Phishing eMails - These are emails that look like they were sent by eBay, but really were sent by someone trying to get you to click on a link in the email to log-in to you eBay account on a fake webpage designed to look like the eBay log-in page so that they can get your username and password to do all sorts of damage by hijacking your account. Never click on a link in your email to log into your eBay account. Trust me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mystery Lots, Estate Sales, and Dealer Lots - I do not really care if your dear uncle Hermon left you a gold coin on his deathbead, nor do I believe you just purchased a large group of gold coins at an estate sale. Hmm, and those mystery lots are essentially a lottery along with those dealer lots. Be very wary of these types of listings. Remember what I've stated earlier. If it's too good to be true, it probably is. In the case of these types of listings, I can almost guarantee you that you will get the short end of the deal whether you realize it or not.
Mystery lots - These types of listings should be banned from eBay. They essentially take advantage of the gambler in all of us. One gold coin amongst thousands of cheap, searched through, buy by the bucketload, 20th century type coins. $10 for 75c worth of coins with the hopes that you come out with the coin that may be worth $100? Whatever. Stay away!
Estate Sales - A search for the word "estate" drew over 1100 listings on eBay. Mostly, these lots contain a bunch of hum-drum coins, some certified, most raw but in cardboard flips. These are usually combined with various odds and ends and the word "estate" is just keyword spamming to attract those out there who are treasure hunters at heart. It's just marketing.
Dealer Lots - $15,000 catalog value worth of coins starting at 99c with no reserve? Holy cow! This MUST be a great deal. Do not buy into the hype these sellers try to sell. Mostly, these lots will be 90% made up of coins certified by ANACS, ICG, NTC, PCI, and SEGS which all have a market value much less than PCGS or NGC coins. The seller may claim that PCGS and NGC coins are included but don't be fooled. You might get one or the other and it'll probably represent less than $100 of the total value the seller is trying to hype. Again, you get what you pay for. The seller wouldn't continue selling $15,000 worth of coins for $750 if they weren't making money on the deal. So ask yourself, how much are the coins really worth if the seller is still making money and you still think you've got a bargain?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Raw coins - Know what you are buying before you pull the trigger.
Fake Coins - I stroll through the Trade Dollars and Early Dollars category and nearly every raw coin I see is an obvious fake. Buy PCGS or NGC certified examples. Don't risk your money on raw coins unless you are knowledgable enough to tell what is real.
Artificially Toned Coins - If the coin isn't fake, and it's raw, and it's very colorful, odds are that it is artificially toned. Purple and Blue peace dollars, Neon Blue morgan dollars, and flourescent copper simply make me want to gag. People are buying this stuff because it's cheap and pretty. Do not be fooled into thinking it is original and don't expect to get a premium for it when you sell it, if you even get what the coin is worth without the color. It is now officially a problem coin that most collectors and dealers wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. When buying toned coins, stick with PCGS and NGC.
Grossly Overgraded Coins - I see this so much on eBay it should be a crime. The hype is nauseating. Sellers with AU58 sliders touting the coin or alluding to the coin being MS65+ by posting listing prices from the PCGS price guide www.pcgs.com/prices. Only buy from a trusted dealer if you are buying raw coins or learn to grade them yourself.
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Comments
<< <i>Dealer Lots - $15,000 catalog value worth of coins starting at 99c with no reserve? Holy cow! This MUST be a great deal. Do not buy into the hype these sellers try to sell. Mostly, these lots will be 90% made up of coins certified by ANACS, ICG, NTC, PCI, and SEGS which all have a market value much less than PCGS or NGC coins >>
.
I'm not arguing the fact that market value is less for ANACS than PCGS and NGC, but do wish to gain your opinion on ANACS. And if market value is a primary goal, why settle for NGC since market value tends higher on PCGS coins?
<< <i>The picture of the coin/coins in the auction are blurry. Never buy what you cannot see even if the seller has a return policy. >>
That recommendation should get an asterisk or something. Blurry pictures sometimes are the best deals on eBay. I've had a 5-figure score and several 4-figure scores from blurry pictures, and I know that lots of other folks on the board have had similar experiences. They're certainly not for the faint of heart, but I wouldn't put them in the same category as the others that you mention.
Excellent advice otherwise!
jonathan
I think ANACS is right behind PCGS and NGC. Their grading is better than the rest but not as good as PCGS and NGC. Their new holders are not good, though.
Kewpie Doll award-10/29/2007
Successful BST transactions with Coinboy and Wondercoin.
Good tips. Create a "guide" on eBay.
Here's mine LINK (all text below though):
Note that ALL statements apply IN GENERAL. There will always be an honest person on the up & up that is the exception to one of the following rules that SHOULD NOT be avoided BUT, in general AVOID ALL coin sellers that exhibit ANY of the following characteristics. If used (perhaps more appropriately) as a checklist, obviously, the more of the following characteristics one possess, the more one should be avoided.
So, AVOID Coin Sellers That:
01. Don't offer a clearly stated return policy.
02. Don't allow returns at all.
03. Quote the PCGS price guide for NON-PCGS graded coins.
04. Don't show a clear picture of what they are selling.
05. Say they are selling a slabbed coin but don't show the uniquley identifying data on the slab itself in the picture (which just might be a stock photo).
06. Don't reply to your e-mail inquiries within 1 business day.
07. Assert a coin is something that the slab insert neglects to mention AND refuses to guarantee their assertion (i.e. attribution) AND extend their return policy - or even allow a return when they normally don't - AT LEAST for enough time for you to get it authenticated/verified by an independent third party grading service (such as ANACS, NGC, or PCGS). This is PARTICULARLY important if you are buying Vams &/or varieties.
08. Run private auctions/listings as many times this is just a way for them to hide their shill bidding activity.
09. Have private feedback as this is usually to just hide some seriously derogatory statements from those that they may have mistreated or ripped-off.
10. Have less a than 99% (at the BARE MINIMUM) feedback rating.
11. Are not an eBay powerseller.
12. Refuse to give you a way to reach them by telephone.
13. Refuse to accept a form of payment that you have no recourse on (i.e. cash/checks only, e.g.).
to be continued...
Leo
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
<< <i> Are not an eBay powerseller. >>
I agree with most of your tips, even though I occasionally don't follow one or two of them, but this one seems a bit ridiculous to me. In fact, I'm more leary of a seller who is a Power Seller than the seller who looks more like a collector just moving a few extras from his collection. Paying ebay a lot of fees is not necessarily a sign of a good seller.
BRING MONEY !
p.s. RGT... I am a power seller.. but it was purely accidental.... I had no clue that one only had to sell a thousand dollars worth of goods for three months in a row for that status
NOT ALL FLIPS are profitable, either
Joe
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
"Are not an eBay powerseller."
Hey, I had to throw one gratuitious one in for the brass.
<< <i>...
So, AVOID Coin Sellers That:
11. Are not an eBay powerseller.
to be continued... >>
Are not a PowerSeller™? Sorry, but most sellers I'd avoid are PowerSellers,™ especially the higher-level ones.
While I take issue with that some of your other rules, I'd add to the list any seller that:
- uses more than two fonts or any red text in the description of the lot.
- makes investment assertions
- has a history of shipping charge gouging
- sells a high volume of bottom feeder slabs
- is in China
Some of these things can't be determined just by looking at the lot for sale. Additional research into a seller's past is required.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Neither do I. As some have said/alluded to, there are some I avoid like the plague. Just one of MANY things to consider.
All else EQUAL, & I mean ALL, if the ONLY difference between 2 sellers was their powerseller status &/or lack thereof, something has to "tip" (no pun intended - i.e. "tips") the scale.
Of course, the eBay sellers that AREN"T powersellers - IN GENERAL - will be more vocal in expressing their opposition - ALL ELSE EQUAL - to THIS notion.
<< <i>All else EQUAL, & I mean ALL, if the ONLY difference between 2 sellers was their powerseller status &/or lack thereof, something has to "tip" (no pun intended - i.e. "tips") the scale. >>
To me it might be the other way around. If you get into a dispute with a seller, I feel like eBay would be more likely to take the side of a Powerseller than someone who isn't (and thus I'd be more likely to "lose" the dispute).
But things aren't all equal. They would have to be selling the same coin for the same price. It wouldn't matter if either one was a powerseller. If they don't raise any red flags or break any of the rules I posted then it wouldn't matter who you bought the coin from . It would essentially be a coin toss. Heck, if I thought one person had a cooler sounding eBay handle, that could also tip the scales. The powerseller status means essentially squat to me if I'm a buyer. It doesn't mean that you won't get screwed. It doesn't guarantee a pleasant buying experience. Although, if I'm a seller, it makes your name stick out more and more people notice it. Also, if I were new to eBay, I might get a sense of comfort knowing the seller is a powerseller but only experience will heal that nievity.
10. Have less a than 99% (at the BARE MINIMUM) feedback rating.
Doesn't this AUTOMATICALLY knock out (ALL ELSE EQUAL) about 50% of the powersellers (assuming powerseller feedback is uniformly distributed in the range from 98.00% to 100% - which I assume it isn't but I have no way to REALLY tell) ?
I'm CERTAINLY NOT saying powerseller status is a sufficient condition (for which to soley base trusting a seller on) and possibly not even a necessary one - IN GENERAL - but all else equal, one MIGHT prefer to do business with someone that has more experience rather than less.
In general I agree but some of your tips are a bit over the top. If people just use common sense they should avoid 99% of bad things which could happen. But human nature and greed come into play so they get burned.
YOu may want to add alot of these tips simply do not apply if one is buying say a $20 proof set. Some people don't have the best camera equipment or skills and are not in the business of selling coins but collectors getting rid of their personal coins. So their images may suck and many do.
Otherwise some sound advice.
I would sooner buy from Russ than nearly all of your Power Seller friends. In fact, some of the best ebay purchases that I have made have been from fellow collectors selling off some duplicates, not from coin dealers, wannabes, and other predators.
NO. The "tips" are for whether or not to decide to do business with a particular seller, NOT buy a PARTICULAR coin.
"Heck, if I thought one person had a cooler sounding eBay handle, that could also tip the scales."
If you really believe that then add it to your tips. I think you've lost focus of what the tips are for - do decide whether or not to do business (EVER) with a particular seller. NOT to make this purchase or that one at THIS time or not.
"The powerseller status means essentially squat to me if I'm a buyer."
That's certainly YOUR perogative.
"It doesn't mean that you won't get screwed."
Did anything I said offer a contradiction to the above statement?
"It doesn't guarantee a pleasant buying experience."
Same as above.
"Although, if I'm a seller, it makes your name stick out more and more people notice it."
True, but this is a factor for a seller to consider, NOT a buyer assimilating data to determine whether or not to do business with a particular seller.
"Also, if I were new to eBay, I might get a sense of comfort knowing the seller is a powerseller but only experience will heal that nievity."
Possibly. So, you are categorically saying that non-powerseller sellers are BETTER - IN GENERAL - than powerseller sellers?
Their are only 3 possible truths (that MAY be ever-changing): 1. Powersellers are "better". 2. Powersellers are "worse". 3. Powersellers & non-powersellers are equal. Simply go out on a limb & say unequivocally which YOU believe.
No strawman. Just use the facts provided on a case by case basis and determine if you want to do business with somebody. I'm saying that it shouldn't make much of a difference to a buyer whether or not a seller is a powerseller.
Strawman? Did I say that it DID make MUCH of a difference? Did I assert that a case by case basis was NOT called for? Did I not indicate that the list should be taken as just that, a checklist?
You admit it makes more than ZERO of a difference, then. In general, which of the 3 do YOU beleive?
Leo
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
- uses more than two fonts or any red text in the description of the lot.
Uh oh...I've violated that one on my auction listings.
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
If you want me to go out on a limb, I will say that there is no reason to generalize, and I do not want someone I do not know from Adam lecturing me on how to buy coins. Plus, it's much easier and less uncertain to just avoid buying coins on ebay and instead buy from sellers that I know and trust.
Hmm, trying to draw a line in a grey area? You should know better than that. Like I said, take the facts on a case by case basis. If you live your life applying blanket statements, you will eventually be wrong.
Just fyi: I'm not disagreeing with ANYTHING on your list. I would hope that the items I have listed would help some people too. My intention was do do just that - as I'm sure yours were.
Just because I'm willing to say that all else equal, I would feel more comfortable with a powerseller than one that isn't & many have danced around what they believe and are not willing to take a stand one way or the other - ALL ELSE EQUAL - and stop offering all possibilities that have NO place in an ALL ELSE EQUAL - analysis, I really don't think it's fair to call me names or flame me. Do you?
<< <i>Brandon,
<STRONG>Just fyi:</STRONG> I'm not disagreeing with ANYTHING on your list. I would hope that the items I have listed would help some people too. My intention was do do just that - as I'm sure yours were.
Just because I'm willing to say that all else equal, I would feel more comfortable with a powerseller than one that isn't & many have danced around what they believe and are not willing to take a stand one way or the other - ALL ELSE EQUAL - and stop offering all possibilities that have NO place in an ALL ELSE EQUAL - analysis, I really don't think it's fair to call me names or flame me. Do you? >>
I appreciate your original contribution to this thread and I'm sure your information has served a positive purpose to those on eBay. No I will not agree to any of the 3 options you mentioned because I don't believe in drawing a line on something that is so dynamic. There are bad powersellers, there are bad non-powersellers, there are good powersellers, and there are good non-powersellers. If you want to do an in-depth analysis and comparison of EVERY ebay seller and show me the results and provide me with the information you built your hypothesis on, then you might have enough evidence for me to render an opinion.
Just look at the facts on a case by case basis and use common sense if you want to reduce your chances of having a bad ebay coin buying experience.
Next subject:
"Never buy what you cannot see even if the seller has a return policy."
Sounds pretty unequivocal. Not even a hint of "in general". Guess Mitch/Wondercoin (& many other honest sellers that don't bother to image their coins) is/are off your trusted seller list. In fact, while I agree - IN GENERAL - I would not state it as an absolute.
In fact I stated it as:
"Note that ALL statements apply IN GENERAL. There will always be an honest person on the up & up that is the exception to one of the following rules that SHOULD NOT be avoided BUT, in general AVOID ALL coin sellers that exhibit ANY of the following characteristics. If used (perhaps more appropriately) as a checklist, obviously, the more of the following characteristics one possess, the more one should be avoided.
04. Don't show a clear picture of what they are selling."
"Second Chance Offers - I would say 75% of the second chance offers are bogus and you should contact the seller of the item to ask if the offer is legitimate."
What is the data upon which you are making the 75% claim? No reason to doubt or disagree, just curious. Your own empiracal experience? I'd say that the number is about the same for me too - if not higher. Especially on items in the thousands of $.
BUT,
a more effective way to verify the authenticity is to go to your "my eBay buying page". If the 2nd chance was real, it'll show up there. If not, it won't. If from a hijacked account, it won't matter either way.
Sad that a hijacker can sell a big ticket coin and then send what appear to be many valid 2nd chance offers. Unless you personally know how to reach the seller (& not just thru eBay - which the scammer could have easily changed the contact info & email for) nothing you do will indicate it wasn't a bona fide offer.
<< <i>Fair enough. We're all entitled to our opinions & I really don't think the powerseller thing is that big of a factor AT ALL anyways.
Next subject:
<STRONG>"Never buy what you cannot see even if the seller has a return policy."</STRONG>
Sounds pretty unequivocal. Not even a hint of "in general". Guess Mitch/Wondercoin (& many other honest sellers that don't bother to image their coins) is/are off your trusted seller list. In fact, while I agree - IN GENERAL - I would not state it as an absolute.
In fact I stated it as:
"Note that ALL statements apply <STRONG>IN GENERAL</STRONG>. There will always be an honest person on the up & up that is the exception to one of the following rules that <STRONG>SHOULD NOT</STRONG> be avoided BUT, in general AVOID ALL coin sellers that exhibit ANY of the following characteristics. If used <STRONG>(perhaps more appropriately) </STRONG>as a checklist, obviously, the more of the following characteristics one possess, the more one should be avoided.
<STRONG>04.</STRONG> Don't show a clear picture of what they are selling."
<STRONG>"Second Chance Offers - I would say 75% of the second chance offers are bogus and you should contact the seller of the item to ask if the offer is legitimate."
</STRONG>What is the data upon which you are making the 75% claim? No reason to doubt or disagree, just curious. Your own empiracal experience? I'd say that the number is about the same for me too - if not higher. Especially on items in the thousands of $.
BUT,
a more effective way to verify the authenticity is to go to your "my eBay buying page". If the 2nd chance was real, it'll show up there. If not, it won't. If from a hijacked account, it won't matter either way.
Sad that a hijacker can sell a big ticket coin and then send what appear to be many valid 2nd chance offers. Unless you personally know how to reach the seller (& not just thru eBay - which the scammer could have easily changed the contact info & email for) nothing you do will indicate it wasn't a bona fide offer.
Do not buy based off of images where you can't tell what you are buying. Common sense. Sure, every now and then you might score a rip but in the long run, you'll suffer for it. It definitely is a red flag. By itself, it may simply be nothing more than the seller being a horrible photographer but it could mean that the seller is trying to hide something that would be obvious in a clear photo. It is a red flag.
About the 75% bogus second chance offers. My own emperical experience is the basis for that comment and I did note to ONLY check second chance offers in the MY MESSAGES by noting that you should NEVER log into your ebay account from an email.
Don't you have work to do? I do. You can read into what I wrote all you want. The bottom line is, it's useful information. I've gotta hit the post office and bank. Adios for now.
The last neg I received (over a year ago) came from a powerseller leaving me a retaliatory neg after he ripped me off.
I have over 1,000 feedback with a 99.6% feedback rating, yet people shouldn't buy from me because I'm not a powerseller?
Don't buy from me if you think my grading sucks.
Don't buy from me if you think my shipping charges are too high.
Don't buy from me if you think my terms are unfair.
Don't buy from me if you think my pictures suck.
Don't buy from me if you don't like my hair color, shoe size, or taste in music.
All those and more I can accept, but not buying because I'm not a powerseller? Please.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
Thanks
-Don't announce a major rip that you made on eBay to the general public until you have the coin in hand. It's not unheard of for "people" to contact the seller of the ripped coin and inform them of the rip. When this happens it's also not unheard of for your coin to get "lost in the mail".
<< <i>Here's another rule.
-Don't announce a major rip that you made on eBay to the general public until you have the coin in hand. It's not unheard of for "people" to contact the seller of the ripped coin and inform them of the rip. When this happens it's also not unheard of for your coin to get "lost in the mail". >>
!!!
This is good advice even if it isn't a major rip, but an exemplary piece that others may collect. I made this mistake about 2 months ago on a coin I was excitied to have won, and the very next day the coin "got lost" on the way to the post office.
Don't assume that everyone is ethical.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>11. Are not an eBay powerseller. >>
Incredibly stupid advice. However, I think everybody should follow it since all my best rips have some from sellers who aren't.
<< <i>-Don't announce a major rip that you made on eBay to the general public until you have the coin in hand. It's not unheard of for "people" to contact the seller of the ripped coin and inform them of the rip. When this happens it's also not unheard of for your coin to get "lost in the mail". >>
It happened to me - twice. There are some real slimeballs lurking here.
Russ, NCNE
I don't believe - no I'm SURE - NO ONE said OR proposed THAT.
"Incredibly stupid advice"
Russ, I know you are a fair, impartial, & insightful enough person to see the true intent in which the comment was put forth, explained, and extrapolated upon to not resort to an insult.
If my true intention was not clear from my original list (due to my lack of authoring skills) hopefully I fully explained it in all the replys. But if it is truly "incredibly stupid" to use it as ANY measure or means to differentiate sellers (or if any value that that ONE particular measure has is so nominal as to be insignificant) AT ALL, then so be it (& I'd be happy to defer to your expertise
Seriously, I think if we can all get together and develop a list that is WELL thought out, and comes to fruition in a genuine collaborative effort, I think WE ALL would be doing a service to MANY on eBay (& perhaps to some of those here as well). Perhaps you can post the guide yourself. Perhaps there would even be a benefit if many people posted the same guide - each in different categories. I really don't know.
"...However, I think everybody should follow it since all my best rips have some from sellers who aren't."
Isn't THAT the truth.
"Do not buy based off of images where you can't tell what you are buying. Common sense. Sure, every now and then you might score a rip but in the long run, you'll suffer for it. It definitely is a red flag. By itself, it may simply be nothing more than the seller being a horrible photographer but it could mean that the seller is trying to hide something that would be obvious in a clear photo. It is a red flag."
So all the honest sellers that don't take images... I think if giving "tips" one should be careful to at least qualify them so that the uninformed might not take them as gospel carved in stone and are made aware that there ARE exceptions. Your tips (unlike mine - a simple fact) are worded in such a way that there appear to be no exceptions. JMHO.
"NEVER (emphasis added) buy what you cannot see even if the seller has a return policy."
Heck, if I put a coin on eBay before I get a chance to image it, someone who only sees that 1 listing should not do business with me as a result?
"If a seller is offering a NO RESERVE auction starting at 99c on an extremely rare coin..."
I also think you should define "extremely rare" possibly in terms of approximate value.
Much to your surprise (perhaps) some sellers really do let "extremely rare" coins go on no reserve auctions with NO mal-intent. Of course, & again, the definition of "extremely rare" is the key here and the place for possible misunderstanding/disagreement.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
They should not buy that coin from you until you post an image of it.
"Do not buy based off of images where you can't tell what you are buying. Common sense. Sure, every now and then you might score a rip but in the long run, you'll suffer for it. It definitely is a red flag. By itself, it may simply be nothing more than the seller being a horrible photographer but it could mean that the seller is trying to hide something that would be obvious in a clear photo. It is a red flag."
So all the honest sellers that don't take images... I just think if you're giving "tips" you should at least qualify them so that the uninformed might not take them as gospel carved in stone and are made aware that there ARE exceptions. Your tips (unlike mine - a simple fact) are worded in such a way that there appear to be no exceptions. JMHO.
Lack of a clear image IS A RED FLAG. It is an indication that you should think twice about buying the coin and I would NEVER suggest someone buying a coin they can't see properly.
Hopefully people will take my tips as gospel. It will nearly guarantee that they don't get screwed. Yes, there are exceptions, and when people who need to read this stuff have enough experience to know exactly what they are doing on eBay, their buying habits can mature and they can determine when to make those exceptions.
I'm sorry. I just don't agree with this WITHOUT EXCEPTION. I DO agree that IN GENERAL this is an EXCELLENT peice of advice. I think I even used it myself (reasonably qualified, of course).
"04. Don't show a clear picture of what they are selling."
I really think we are saying the same thing perhaps to slightly different degrees.
<< <i>Why? Just me or anyone? Does that then apply to buying from Coin World ads or out of L&C catalogs, e.g.? >>
Did you notice this thread was about eBay? There are relatively easy ways to add pictures to a listing unlike coinworld where utilization of space is neccessary.
I really think we are saying the same thing perhaps to slightly different degrees.
Yeah, you seem to have a problem with understanding what I'm saying.
So what was that Strawman comment?
<< <i>Another low blow. I think you seem to have the same problem >>
Well, the day is getting late and you are trying to argue some moot point that you obviously have strong feelings about.
and.
I know exactly what I am saying.
Isn't there a guy who sells Volkswagon parts and some high end silver dollars?
eBay is a marketplace to buy and sell all sorts of things. Why can't someone be getting rid odds and ends then start selling off a coins?
If you intend to exclude buying from non FT dealers that's one thing but plenty of us have jobs and coins are a hobby. We take lousy photos, don't know HTML web design, and can't speel so is that a red flag? I have had some of my best purchases from exactly that type of seller.
Let common sense, feedback and gut determine whether to buy or not.
<< <i>if the seller's past items were something like CD cases, old DVD's, and machine parts, they most likely are not going to be offering rare coins and the account may have been hi-jacked.
Isn't there a guy who sells Volkswagon parts and some high end silver dollars?
eBay is a marketplace to buy and sell all sorts of things. Why can't someone be getting rid odds and ends then start selling off a coins?
If you intend to exclude buying from non FT dealers that's one thing but plenty of us have jobs and coins are a hobby. We take lousy photos, don't know HTML web design, and can't speel so is that a red flag? I have had some of my best purchases from exactly that type of seller.
Let common sense, feedback and gut determine whether to buy or not. >>
Sure, but it may also be an indication that the account has been hijacked. It is a red flag and should raise your suspicians. Common sense, feedback, and checking for obvious red flags as mentioned in the first post are excellent ways to avoid getting screwed on eBay.
Positive BST as a seller: Namvet69, Lordmarcovan, Bigjpst, Soldi, mustanggt, CoinHoader, moursund, SufinxHi, al410, JWP