A few games of "Guess the Grade" (GRADES POSTED)

coinpictures

Darkside material has been almost nonexistent here locally as of late, and since I still really do like scrounging and rummaging through physical inventory as opposed to just buying online, I've decided to pick up some lightside material that tickles my fancy. I can't afford the gonzo coins that most here seem to post , and I'm not an expert/specialist in any capacity. Occasional type pieces... interesting coloring... oh yeah, and big old hunks of 19th century copper (Since I have such a penchant for 19th-century British copper, it makes sense to get some U.S. to go along... even though unfortunately my spending dollar doesn't go as far with U.S. material as it does with British).

Here are four coins I picked up today at the local watering hole. I'd like your honest assessment as to grade, as well as any problem areas you see that I probably should have been wary of (I have a return privilege, so I'm not too worried).

Most of what I normally buy any more is slabbed material, so I'm not as knowledgeable as I should be on what some dealers do to clean/manipulate/alter coins here on the lightside...

Please be gentle; I'm effectively a NEWBIE when it comes to U.S. material.

I'll reveal the grades I bought them as, and the prices paid, after I get some input.

Thanks in advance for any advice/pointers.

1. Large Cent, 1851.
   
   
   
   
   
2. Large Cent, 1853.
   
   
   
   
   
3. Morgan Dollar, 1885. I just liked the obverse toning. It's a bit more vibrant than the photos imply. I will say right now that I am miserable at grading Morgans; telling the difference between wear and weak strike on sliders is an issue for me.
   
   
   
   
   
4. Bust Half, 1825. It's in an ANACS holder. I liked the color, especially the reverse. Those specks on the chin are on the holder, not the coin. Forgot to dust...
   
   
   

Leiana

1851 Cent-AU53

1853 Cent- MS 63

Morgan Dollar- MS 63

Capped Bust- EF 45

Welcome to the liteside!

-Amanda

Edit for a spelling error

MikeInFL

1. I grade the coin XF 40 details, VF 35 because of the obverse dings. It has what looks like natural good color.

2. I grade the coin AU 55. The color looks a bit too even and it may have been recolored. I would expect the high points, where they show wear, to be of a slightly different tint than the rest of the coin.

I have no comment on the other two coins other than the Morgan is pretty and I like the look of the bust half but the hairlines are a bit distracting...Mike

p.s. very nice photos!

construct

All right, I'll start.

I'd call the 1851 Large Cent an AU of some sort as to the details. The problem I have is what looks like raised metal on the cheek and in the obverse fields.

The 1853 Large Cent is I think the best of the four. I'm going to go out on a limb and call it a 60. There is some unevenness around the third star, and the seventh star looks flat. There are also some hits on the reverse rim.

I'll call the Morgan an AU-55. Notice the wear above the ear and on the eagle's breast. I have no opinion as to its originality. I'd have to see it in hand to form an opinion.

The Capped Bust Half I'll call an EF-45. There appear to be hairlines on the obverse that may be from an old cleaning.

They're a nice start. I think I'd aim for a higher grade on the common date Morgans.

ColonialCoinUnion

1851 Cent: AU50 details perhaps, netted to XF for the dings. Can't tell if thats just dirt in the devices, or verdigris - if its the latter it might need a bath before it can be certified.

1853 Cent: AU55

1885 Morgan: MS62

1825 Half: XF45

Your pictures are very nice -

NumisOxide

1) 1851 Large Cent XF details

2) 1853 Large Cent AU53

3) 1885 Morgan Dollar AU58

4) 1825 half dollar XF45...Nice example. I like the toning.

ER

Don't know about the others, but the Morgan is BB'ed.

coinpictures

<< <i>Don't know about the others, but the Morgan is BB'ed. >>



For what reason?

ER

Looks to me like it's been harshly cleaned on the obverse, but heck, what do I know. Nothing, really.

coinpictures

<< <i>Looks to me like it's been harshly cleaned on the obverse, but heck, what do I know. Nothing, really. >>



Please don't get me wrong. I wasn't second-guessing your opinion. I just didn't know the reason you would have BB'ed the coin...

pharmer

I think there's no reason for separate forums. People on this one would learn a lot about darkside coins, and folks on the world cf would have more action, if it is slow as you say. I wouldn't know for sure, I don't go there. It's too slow. But the coins are great, as is the information. You're a good photog.

Leiana

<< <i>I'll call the Morgan an AU-55. Notice the wear above the ear and on the eagle's breast. I have no opinion as to its originality. I'd have to see it in hand to form an opinion. >>



I think that's typical weakness of strike.

-Amanda

BlindedByEgo

1. XF45 damaged

2. AU55 couple of reverse rim gouges mildly distracting.

3. AU53 nicely retoned over old cleaning. Breast feathers should be bolder, so I'm going to call the weakness there the result of wear.

4. EF40 Cleaned and retoned (hairlines visible on cheek and in field in front of bust).

Typical caveats about grading from photos, opinions like... Well, you know

I really like your photography - my complements!

Crazy4Coins

I'd say:

AU50
AU55
AU55.....I wouldn't say for sure it has been cleaned, looks more like it's badly hairlined
VF35

I got to find me one of those watering holes

construct

<< <i>

<< <i>I'll call the Morgan an AU-55. Notice the wear above the ear and on the eagle's breast. I have no opinion as to its originality. I'd have to see it in hand to form an opinion. >>



I think that's typical weakness of strike.

-Amanda >>



I don't think Philadelphia Morgans from 1885 don't typically have a weak strike.

BlindedByEgo

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I'll call the Morgan an AU-55. Notice the wear above the ear and on the eagle's breast. I have no opinion as to its originality. I'd have to see it in hand to form an opinion. >>



I think that's typical weakness of strike.

-Amanda >>



I don't think Philadelphia Morgans from 1885 don't typically have a weak strike. >>



Strange double negative, but I totally agree with what I think that you meant to say. I was going to point that very thing out to the young lady but left it to you

lkenefic

I can give a try at the Large Cents...

1851: XF detail but I'd net grade to VF35 due to the obverse hits. I'd also be wary of the green corrosion starting on the reverse in "STATES". The fields in front of Ms. Liberty might be indicative of a very old cleaning.

1853: AU55 details...fairly nice fields. I agree with the other posters about the color. It's way too uniform. Also, the haze around stars 2 and 3 and around star 12 indicate to me the coin has been recolored.

Leo

rec78

1.vf-35
2.xf-40 but appears to have been recolored
3. AU -50
4.VF-35 very nice -appears natural
They all appear ok if that is what you want to collect.

michael

1851 Cent- net vf35

1853 Cent- au55+

Morgan Dollar- au58

Capped Bust- net vf35

mgoodm3

40
55
61
30

Fairlaneman

I think if all 4 went to PCGS they would all get bagged. The cents for corrosion and the other two for cleaning. The morgan is fugly. I could live with the bust half.

Ken

coinpictures

Well, from the consensus thus far, it appears that I did OK on 2, so-so on 1, and screwed the pooch on 1.

1. OK. I graded this and purchased it as a VF, albeit probably a 30 or 35. Paid $23
   
   
2. So-So. I bought this as a low-end AU, although gauging from completed Ebay results, I probably overpaid. I paid $100, whereas most AU pieces seem to be finishing in the $70-110 range (hard to tell from many auction photos as to whether they're true AU pieces). Recolored or not, I like the aesthetics of the piece.
   
   
3. Screwed da pooch. Really blew it on this one. Paid $27. It was sold as "BU" (whatever the heck that means any more). $27 is grey sheet bid for 60. I still like the peripheral toning (despite what Fairlaneman thinks ).
   
   
4. OK. This is in an ANACS VF35 holder. I paid $85.
   

The thing that attracted me to these 2 large cents, as opposed to the 25 or so others that the dealer had, and most that I see on Ebay, is that even with any cleaning/recoloring issues, the surfaces on these are fairly nice and even. Most of what I am seeing online or otherwise are just beat to hell and back, even if they have VF or XF detail, the planchets suck -- corroded or excessive rim dings, etc.

What agents are used to "recolor" large cents, and what are the telltale signs? Too even color on circ pieces?

Thanks for all the input thus far!

Smoker

My estimates written down before seeing your discloseure:

1851 = EF35BN

1853 = AU55BN

1885 = MS-64

1825 = VF-35

I think they're all pretty nice coins.