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PRO holders and grades

slatsmeslatsme Posts: 193
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
I recently won two auctions and both cards were graded by PRO. Anyone have an experience cracking their holders and how their grading compares with PSA.

Thinking of cracking and then submitting to PSA

Thanks
Carpe Diem

Comments

  • tennesseebankertennesseebanker Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭
    image
    image

  • VintageJeffVintageJeff Posts: 1,282 ✭
    lol you need to read more and buy less. PRO is the laughing stock of the grading industry. It is a haven for hack trim jobs, counterfeit cards, scam artists, and well every other bad thing you can imagine.
    Collecting
    Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
    1967 Topps PSA 8+
    1960's Topps run Mega Set image
    "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
    image
  • srs1asrs1a Posts: 398 ✭
    (1) a PRO holder is virtually indestructable

    (2) if you are able to crack it and get the card out intact, you will likely not like the treatment it gets from a real grading compant

    sorry
    Dr S. of the Dead Donkeys MC
  • lawnmowermanlawnmowerman Posts: 19,477 ✭✭✭✭
    They put glue or something on the edges of the holder. It was the hardest holder I ever cracked.

    1994 Pro Line Live

    TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject

  • zef204zef204 Posts: 4,742 ✭✭
    I concur with it being the hardest holder I have evr tried to open. I think they could survive a nuclear war.
    EAMUS CATULI!

    My Auctions
  • ralstonpurinaralstonpurina Posts: 222 ✭
    Actually the holder is "ultrasonically welded" and "it is nearly impossible to open it without causing obvious damage."

    Couldn't help doing a little cut and paste from the pro website. How 'bout some more...

    "as well as knowing how to measure centering" - Fill in the blanks with "measuring" guys

    "We tackle all the hard problems: autographs, Star cards, and special issues." Hard problems, like PSA/SGC won't grade this card?

    "Our senior graders are veteran collectors who understand that all cards were not produced in the same manner" "produced", um or reproduced

    "If it is a sports card, we believe the collector should be able to get it identified and graded." No matter how bad it's butchered!!!

    "It is of the utmost importance for customers to be able to speak to a top person at the grading firm, and have that person take a real interest in the customer's business." Just tell us what kinda grades you want!! Speak directly to your grader
    Always buying 1984 Ralston Purina PSA 9s and 10s I NEED 19,21, and 29!!!
  • SoutherncardsSoutherncards Posts: 1,384 ✭✭
    image
  • LWMMLWMM Posts: 471 ✭
    A grading company should know papers, ink, photography, and printing techniques, as well as knowing how to measure centering, check corners and look for surface wear. At PRO we also take the time to properly identify each and every card, and we offer the most complete information in the industry on our labels.
    image
    Looking for Jonny Gomes cards, especially Triple Threads and printing plates. Will consider all cards, though. Got something? Contact me at c_u_l_1@yahoo.com
  • stevekstevek Posts: 29,368 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you're not kidding, post a link to the auction so we can better comment. Note that a good rule of thumb is if it's say a regular issue 1960s Topps card that is the size of a t-206 card in a Pro holder, it's most likely been trimmed.
  • dontippetdontippet Posts: 2,609 ✭✭✭✭
    OK, I'll ruin this thread for everyone. I bought a modern card graded PRO 10 with the idea of cracking it and sending it to PSA. It was a refractor of some sort. I had no problem with cracking the holder. After cracking, I did notice that there was one of those refractor print lines. I sent it to PSA anyway and it came back a 9.

    Don
    > [Click on this link to see my ebay listings.](https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&_udlo=&_udhi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=61611&_sargn=-1&saslc=1&_salic=1&_fss=1&_fsradio=&LH_SpecificSeller=1&_saslop=1&_sasl=mygirlsthree3&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_fosrp=1)
    >

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  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,439 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>OK, I'll ruin this thread for everyone. I bought a modern card graded PRO 10 with the idea of cracking it and sending it to PSA. It was a refractor of some sort. I had no problem with cracking the holder. After cracking, I did notice that there was one of those refractor print lines. I sent it to PSA anyway and it came back a 9.

    Don >>


    Don
    It just goes to show ya that...

    once in a while you can find a diamond up a goat's ass.

    image
    Mike
  • djspanndjspann Posts: 541 ✭


    << <i>A grading company should know papers, ink, photography, and printing techniques, as well as knowing how to measure centering, check corners and look for surface wear. At PRO we also take the time to properly identify each and every card, and we offer the most complete information in the industry on our labels. >>



    That's an incredible test, LWMM. I have always heard that trimmed/recolored, etc. cards are fair game at PRO. This is pretty solid proof of the trimmed comments.

    Doug
  • stevekstevek Posts: 29,368 ✭✭✭✭✭
    While it's always good to have proof, all you really have to do is just look at the cards in the Pro slabs in the auctions on ebay - some are trimmed so bad it is laughable - except of course if you naively buy the "worthless" trimmed card believing it has value and then sooner or later find out that it is worthless.
  • djspanndjspann Posts: 541 ✭
    You know, I just noticed on that link that PRO graded that #32 John Mastrangelo card as a "1949 Bowman" Mint 9.5 That card is a 1948 Bowman, and by the way, there is no 1949 Bowman football set. WOW.

    How loose are PRO cards in their holders? I've never seen one in person. They look like the cards could slide around inside and really get damaged.


    Doug
  • GriffinsGriffins Posts: 6,076 ✭✭✭
    For the most part, cards in PRO holders are completely worthless. It's amazing no attorney general has honed in on this scam
    I did get a PSA 5 from a PRO 7 holder- amazing on two counts-
    The card actually wasn't trimmed (PRO messed up, obviously)
    PRO actually has a grade as low as a 7.

    Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's

  • zef204zef204 Posts: 4,742 ✭✭


    << <i>For the most part, cards in PRO holders are completely worthless. It's amazing no attorney general has honed in on this scam
    I did get a PSA 5 from a PRO 7 holder- amazing on two counts-
    The card actually wasn't trimmed (PRO messed up, obviously)
    PRO actually has a grade as low as a 7. >>

    When I first got into the grading game, must be 6 years ago, I sent off some really god chit to PRO because they were cheaper.image

    I sent in 3 cards I want back. A Dr. J rc, PRO 9.8 and it legit had a shot at a PSA 10. This thing was cherry. Leads me to another story at the end...I sold it in the PRO holder for $75 shortly after it was graded.

    A 61 Topps Kemp and a 55 Bowman Gifford. Both PRO 9.5's. These two I ruined breaking them out of the PRO holder. They both had a shot at a 9. The Kemp got gouged in the middle of the card after I finally got the top of the PRO holder opened and tried to pry apart the two halves. The top half split in the middle and gouged the card. The Gifford, I wisened up from the Kemp, so I tried to use a screw driver to loosen the edges. It went thru the top edge eventually and put a huge nick in the top edge of the Giff.


    ...back to the funny story. My old man, called in Mastro to look at our whole collection. They were fairly new, to my recolection, but a rep came to his house to evaluate it. He said he would "but" it all for $2000. We told him we thought it was an auction house and he told us that we were wasting our time. Our collection was not waht we think its worth. He said the one card he thought we should get graded was the Dr J rc. He thought it could get a 10. So we sent it off to PRO.


    Needless to say we didn't sell the collection to the Mastro rep for $2000 and I got back into collecting about that time. I have sold some of our collection for more than 10x that offer and have continued to grow My collection as I bought my dad out a few years back. So, the moral of the story is...

    some a-hole has a cherry Dr. J rc in a PRO holder.
    EAMUS CATULI!

    My Auctions
  • slatsmeslatsme Posts: 193
    Here are the two cards. I am not out too much if I cannot crack. One of those late night "I'll just bid for the hell of it kinda deal" and now here I am.



    image




    http://images.andale.com/f2/108/102/20413160/1151556608944_0664.JPG
    Carpe Diem
  • slatsmeslatsme Posts: 193
    Sorry....



    image
    Carpe Diem
  • CDsNutsCDsNuts Posts: 10,092 ✭
    Sorry bro, they both look trimmed to me.

    Lee
  • stevekstevek Posts: 29,368 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Kluszewski is definitely trimmed. Sorry.
  • slatsmeslatsme Posts: 193
    Thanks for the opinions on the cards. Help me understand a trimmed card...is it that obvious and if so how can I spot the next one?
    Carpe Diem
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