I just paid $362 for a Lincoln Memorial 1c - Good Deal?

Russellhome

Well, after finding a dinged up one of these rare 1968 D DDRs in a BU cent roll that I’d owned for 30 years, I got kind of obsessed with finding a better example. So rather than try to buy up thousands of 1968 D rolls to find one, someone saved me all the trouble and listed one on Ebay (and I won!). As doubled dies go, this one is pretty nice (and rare is good, too – I hope it stays that way).

Ebay Auction Link

Here the the photos from the listing...



So how do you think this one will grade?

And should I send it to PCGS, NGC, or ANACS (I have a free submission for ANACS)?


Here are the photos of this type of DDR (pics of my original find)...







The reverse is gorgeous - but that obverse! How could I be so lucky and unlucky at the same time?

This one will hit eBay soon.

partagas

That is so cool you found one from circulation. I just am going to have to start paying more attention.

No idea on the grade as I am not a lincoln guy. But I would send both to ANACS first. Then cross them if you so desire.

ABC123

Try all 3

CoinResource

I like the pix

Russellhome

<< <i>That is so cool you found one from circulation. >>



I didn't actually find it in circulation. It was in a roll of BU 1959 to 1979 memorial cents (one of each date/mint). I bought it at or around 1979 for $2.50. These were sets put together by a local coin shop in Oregon. I had two of them -- but only 1 1968 D DDR cent was found. There are probably lots of people have these Memorial Cent Set rolls just sitting in a box with a bunch of other BU rolls as I did. So - someday, more of these are going to turn up. But as of right now, it is said that there are less than 30 known examples of this DDR. And at least for a while, I own two of them.

RpmHunter

Nice coin, the reverse die must have been mated with at least two obverse dies. It appears that the mintmark locations are different on your two examples.

Russellhome

<< <i>Nice coin, the reverse die must have been mated with at least two obverse dies. It appears that the mintmark locations are different on your two examples. >>



You might be right. But the top photo that is from the listing is a bit fuzzy and has some glare. When I have both coins in-hand, I'll check that out. I did compare my old coin to the photo on coppercoins.com and it appears to match the one used for photos on that site.

JRocco

The pictures on that auction are just plain horrible. I think you scored well on this one.

Russellhome

<< <i>The pictures on that auction are just plain horrible. I think you scored well on this one. >>



I totally agree with you. I think the seller would have done much better if he'd have had professional photos taken for his listing.

A few years back, I picked up a great XF 1809 half cent (with a nice die rotation, I later found out) for less than $30. The photo was really dark and it made the coin look pretty bad. The seller did not mention the coin grade. I worked with the photo on photoshop and saw that the coin was actually pretty nice. I bought it and was very pleased when I got it. It may even have some original mint luster on it.

It is sometimes better not to have a picture at all than to have a really bad one. The ones in the 1968 D 1c auction did not do the coin justice. However, since I do know where the separation lines are, I can just make them out in some of his photos - so at least I can tell it is the real deal. Plus - I've bought from that seller before and had no trouble.

seanq

I've bought many coins from that seller and I haev no doubt you'll receive an accurately attributed coin.

I may be in the minority here, but I think you overpaid somewhat for that coin. Looking at the bid history it was only you and one other bidder above $75. It will be very interesting to see where your coin hammers, as so few of these come on the market it's hard to establish a price base.


Sean Reynolds

lloydmincy

I don't see any double die. This, is a double die.

DMWJR

That's one of the nicer DDR's, but I also think you overpaid for it.

Russellhome

<< <i>I've bought many coins from that seller and I haev no doubt you'll receive an accurately attributed coin.

I may be in the minority here, but I think you overpaid somewhat for that coin. Looking at the bid history it was only you and one other bidder above $75. It will be very interesting to see where your coin hammers, as so few of these come on the market it's hard to establish a price base.


Sean Reynolds >>



You might be right. It is an odd balance between too many - and too common to be of any real value vs. too few and unknown to be of any collector interest. It might actually be a good thing for the overall value if more of this variety turns up. Billy Crawford told me that he discovered this variety in 1996. It took nearly 30 years to be found. Yet - as doubled dies go, it is pretty strong and certainly got my attention when I first saw it (the original find, not the auction).

But like I said, I was quite bummed about having the luck of finding one, but having the misfortune to have it be so damaged. If buying this one keeps me from buying roll after roll of 1968 D cents, then I'll probably be ahead in the long run. And who knows, perhaps this one is a sleeper and will become more popular with collectors in the future. A 'Speared Bison' would cost twice the price and is 1000 times more common. I may have overpaid, but I wanted it and I was willing to go $100 higher to get it. Now I just have to sell off some more stuff to pay for it.

seateddime

enjoy your new coin

Russellhome

<< <i>I don't see any double die. This, is a double die.
>>



Well, we all can't have the coin that sets the standard. The 1969 S and 1970 S 1c DDOs are not as nice as the 1955 either - but they are much more hard to come by and require a small fortune to buy. But the sad thing is, I remember when I could have bought one of those 1955 DDOs for less than what I paid for the 1968 DDR.

RBinTex

Judging SOLELY by her pics:

1. Looks like the real deal. To bad no pics of AMERICA.
2. FS-027.4 Pops: NGC pop=2 & ANACS=10 MS - 1 62RB, 1 63 RB, 3 64RD, 4 65RD, 1 66RD (+4 just "DDR") & 3 Circ (+1 just "DDR")
3. I think if the real deal, worth it if you REALLY wanted an example BUT - IMHO - about twice what it's worth (if just a 64RD, e.g.)

Nice catch though.

Russellhome

Thanks for the info. Billy Crawford told me that few of this variety had been found. The numbers you provided back that up. But he also told me that at least one of the known examples is in a late die state. SO - WHERE ARE THEY ALL AT? It will be my luck that the 'motherload' will be discovered next week and thousands of these will hit the market -- just like with the strong 1964 1c DDR. Or just maybe, they're all sitting in drawers, jars, and 50 gallon drums of cents and will all get melted down when the price of copper is high enough. I recently saw a story on the news about some guy cashing in $13000 in cents collected in change over the years. I'd bet more than a few good Doubled Dies were in that lot.

Russellhome

<< <i>Nice coin, the reverse die must have been mated with at least two obverse dies. It appears that the mintmark locations are different on your two examples. >>



Good eye! Turns out you were correct. I did an overlay of the date/Mintmark and they are clearly different obverse dies.



And both clearly show the same reverse doubling.



I sent both to Billy Crawford for evaluation and it was confirmed - same DDR with two different obverse dies. The Ebay purchase has obverse markers that match the ones that have already been attributed. The damaged coin I found is the one had not been seen by the key attributors. So this is kind of an interesting twist to what is already a nice DDR variety.

JJM

thats great you scored a coin you needed !!!!........Personally i'd bought some gold , but heh !

66RB

Wow Russelhome! I've been trying to find one of these for a while, congrats on the two you own!

The only one I've seen was in a NGS(??) holder marked 64RD for $2000 on Ebay. I offered the guy $200 and I never heard from him.

I bet he thinks you did great!

Seriously, I'm jealous, if I had seen it on Ebay, it may have gone higher

cladking

<< <i> So - someday, more of these are going to turn up. But as of right now, it is said that there are less than 30 known examples of this DDR. And at least for a while, I own two of them. >>




This is the conventional wisdom but I have some serious doubt about it. My doubt is
directed primarily at the larger denominations which were saved in tiny numbers and
rarely collected but does extend even to the cents. The simple fact is that most all var-
ieties are usually struck by only a single die pair. The percentage of mintage of moderns
that were set aside as collectibles or as speculation against higher prices can be as low
as .0001%. You might assume if you multiply this out by the average number of coins
made by a die that you'll always get a pretty substantial number but the problem arises
when you consider that this percentage retention is so low that the entire output of many
dies will hirt circulation. Then you couple this with the huge attrition on a coin like a cent
and it can be surprising that the coin exists at all.

Old coins used to survive because they got lost in a warehouse, were used as backing for
paper, were set aside by collectors, or were horded by the public for their metal. None of
these still apply to coins. Only the coins set aside by collectors survive and none of these
coins were widely collected until recently.

There will be numerous scarce and rare varieties and grades for this reason.

Russellhome

<< <i>Wow Russelhome! I've been trying to find one of these for a while, congrats on the two you own!

The only one I've seen was in a NGS(??) holder marked 64RD for $2000 on Ebay. I offered the guy $200 and I never heard from him.

I bet he thinks you did great!

Seriously, I'm jealous, if I had seen it on Ebay, it may have gone higher >>



The guy that sold me one a month ago has another one listed right now. I asked him about the history of the coin I bought. He told me he found 2 of these in a roll he purchased from his local coin shop over a year ago. He's been going back and getting more 1968 D rolls from the same source (50+ rolls so far) - but had no luck finding any more. Then 'bingo' - in the last batch he bought, he found two more. So it appears he has a potential source for finding more of this DDR type -- but it is not the mother-load. He has bought a lot of regular 1968 D cents to get the ones he's found. That's his story, anyway. It seems reasonable-- I've watched eBay and this type does not come up often.

66Tbird

OK, that's it, I'm pulling my box of 65-70 BU's and going in.

seanq

<< <i>OK, that's it, I'm pulling my box of 65-70 BU's and going in. >>



I have a stash of about 20 rolls that I bought right after this coin was discovered, but I haven't found the time or the motivation to search them. One of these days, though...

BTW, there's another thread from the last day or so, another Forum member found one of these in EF/AU.


Sean Reynolds

clackamas

I heard that you can find these in mint sets. Is that true? I have never looked, actually I looked at my 3 MS67s and did not find one. I did find that one of my MS67 68-P Washingtons is a minor DDO.

cladking

<< <i>I heard that you can find these in mint sets. Is that true? >>



I seriously doubt it. If true it will be "common".

cladking

I looked in all my references and only "Looking Through Lincoln Cents" lists it and
with no mention of it appearing in mint sets. It's not impossible but quite unlikely.

seanq

<< <i>I looked in all my references and only "Looking Through Lincoln Cents" lists it and
with no mention of it appearing in mint sets. It's not impossible but quite unlikely. >>



I'm pretty sure Billy Crawford discovered this variety, I remember it appeared in either the SDDCA or NCADD club magazine. I remember Billy and I were corresponding on a different subject and he cryptically threw in a P.S. one day to go buy up as many BU '68-D rolls as I could find before they became impossible to get.


Sean Reynolds