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Is there a common definition of "rare" that dealers or collectors use?
Longacre
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I got the Pinnacle Priority Selections newsletter the other day. In the opening section, the firm writes,
"One of the first concepts investors and collectors need to understand is that coins, by definition, are not necessarily rare. However, there are rare coins. At Pinnacle Rarities, we deal only in those coins scarce enough to have an inherent reason to rise in value. Simply stated, rare coins are those which are not available in large quantities and require little increase in demand to drive prices up. While there are certainly other important variables to consider along with rarity, historical data and our own experience have show that rarity offers the best potential for preservation of capital and return on invested funds."
I assume there is no standard definition of "rare" that is used by dealers or collectors. However, the above statement makes sense. I assume that there are different standards of rarity depending on the series in question. For example, something like a Buffalo gold coin (another thread about gold Buffalos!) is not necessarily rare in my opinion. Likewise, a Philly quarter eagle from the 1880's might have a few thousand coins in existance (which you would think is rare), is not necessarily rare because of the very little demand for the coins. Therefore, at what point does a coin become rare and have a fundamental reason to rise in value? It almost seems like rarity is irrelevant and demand is the key driver (see, again, the gold Buffalo silliness).
"One of the first concepts investors and collectors need to understand is that coins, by definition, are not necessarily rare. However, there are rare coins. At Pinnacle Rarities, we deal only in those coins scarce enough to have an inherent reason to rise in value. Simply stated, rare coins are those which are not available in large quantities and require little increase in demand to drive prices up. While there are certainly other important variables to consider along with rarity, historical data and our own experience have show that rarity offers the best potential for preservation of capital and return on invested funds."
I assume there is no standard definition of "rare" that is used by dealers or collectors. However, the above statement makes sense. I assume that there are different standards of rarity depending on the series in question. For example, something like a Buffalo gold coin (another thread about gold Buffalos!) is not necessarily rare in my opinion. Likewise, a Philly quarter eagle from the 1880's might have a few thousand coins in existance (which you would think is rare), is not necessarily rare because of the very little demand for the coins. Therefore, at what point does a coin become rare and have a fundamental reason to rise in value? It almost seems like rarity is irrelevant and demand is the key driver (see, again, the gold Buffalo silliness).
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
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<< <i>I got the Pinnacle Priority Selections newsletter the other day. In the opening section, the firm writes,
"One of the first concepts investors and collectors need to understand is that coins, by definition, are not necessarily rare. However, there are rare coins. At Pinnacle Rarities, we deal only in those coins scarce enough to have an inherent reason to rise in value. Simply stated, rare coins are those which are not available in large quantities and require little increase in demand to drive prices up. While there are certainly other important variables to consider along with rarity, historical data and our own experience have show that rarity offers the best potential for preservation of capital and return on invested funds."
I assume there is no standard definition of "rare" that is used by dealers or collectors. However, the above statement makes sense. I assume that there are different standards of rarity depending on the series in question. For example, something like a Buffalo gold coin (another thread about gold Buffalos!) is not necessarily rare in my opinion. Likewise, a Philly quarter eagle from the 1880's might have a few thousand coins in existance (which you would think is rare), is not necessarily rare because of the very little demand for the coins. Therefore, at what point does a coin become rare and have a fundamental reason to rise in value? It almost seems like rarity is irrelevant and demand is the key driver (see, again, the gold Buffalo silliness). >>
I would guess that Rarity and demand are kissing cousins.
Despite rarity, a coin still needs demand.
To me the 1892-O Barber Half is rare for my coin budget and the fact I can find one for my set, to others this is not rare.....
We can all agree that the 1933 Saint and the 1822 Half Eagle are rare however.....
<< <i> At Pinnacle Rarities, we deal only in those coins scarce enough to have an inherent reason to rise in value. Simply stated, rare coins are those which are not available in large quantities and require little increase in demand to drive prices up. >>
It looks like Pinnacle Rarities is wanting to deal with only investors and not collectors. A good dealer should be open to everybodys needs, not just the high end "Rare" coins. It sounds to me that Pinnacle is a Legend wannabe.
If 5 coins of a particular variety exist, but only 3 people want an example in their collection, the "rarity" of the coin is not a player in the equation........ If 2000 of a particular coin exist, and there are 10,000 people wanting to own an example, then the "price" goes up..........
Let's not confuse "rarity" with "demand", or "hype"
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Rarity and demand are two totally different things. There are many rare coins which basically have little or no reason to drastically rise in price...for example, the 1804 dime is decidedly rare...an original minting at around 8200 with a surviving population (raw and slabbed) estimated at under 300 in all grades. However, one can be purchased for about 3 to 4 times the cost of a common date. There simply are not enough collectors doing doing draped bust dime year sets rather than merely needing one for type to cause much price pressure.
On the other end of the spectrum, the 1916-d dime IS NOT RARE! Many examples are for sale at any time that one can purchase. However, demand is such that it draws a tremendous premium over type examples as collectors need one for their date/MM set.
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I disagree with all three sentences above.
Many collectors only want to buy rare coins, myself among them, and do not want to throw the money out the window either.
A good dealer has no obligation to serve everyone's needs. He/she is not running a fire department or public hospital, but a business. As an independent businessperson, he/she can serve whatever clientele he/she wishes.
If I am not mistaken, Pinnacle has been a high-end rare coin firm at least as long as Legend, and possibly longer. They are certainly no wannabes.
it has absolutely nothing to do with demand, nor can it be qualified (e.g. "there were hundreds of millions minted, millions still survive, but there are only 4 certified in THIS condition so therefore it's rare)
"Rare" is probably the #1 most abused term in numismatics
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<< <i>the classic definition of a Rare Coin is 80 or fewer known (in any condition) >>
Ah! I like it when things can be compartmentalized into a definition.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
rare coins with very low prices simply because there is little demand. This makes "rarity"
mostly a relative thing. A '16-D dime is rare relative to demand while a tougher '68 DDO
dime sells for a small fraction of the price. You can't find the '16 because a small army of
collectors will beat you to it while the '68 is allowed to circulate or sit in dealers' stock.
Usually when the term "rare" is used by dealers of this type they are talking about coins
with ten or twenty examples in all dates and coins that are in strong demand. They aren't
going to stock a rare tax token that you can buy for $25.
To a collector of limited means what they consider rare is much different to a collector with a vast supply of cash.....
The limited means collector is not even looking at the coins the other person is and the entire collection of the limited means collector is common widgets to the collector of vast cash.....
Does the sheldon rarity scale apply to all series- or just the bust series?
<< <i>Does the sheldon rarity scale apply to all series- or just the bust series? >>
You can apply it to any series, but in most cases it would be useless. For Morgan dollars, the 1921 will be an R-1, and the 1893-S will be an...
R-1.
Ed. S.
(EJS)
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Coin rarity is defined by R-5 (75 or less), not by Econ 101.
the 1862 proof quarter eagle is rare as it has a mintage of 35 and there are less than 15 known and it is an in demand beautiful popular civil war era coin and is a forgotten sleeper sitting right next to its proof only 1863 cousin also the 1862 is basically un known above ms 63 as i think pcgs has less than 5? ms63 and 1 ms64 with none higher
this makes the proof 1862 quarter eagle an all around rare coin this is to me what makes a coin rare
the sheldon 76a is a rare coin and also a desirable type coin dfue to its lettered edge and heavier weight size
<< <i>Simply stated, rare coins are those which are not available in large quantities and require little increase in demand to drive prices up >>
To be accurate, should Pinnacle also state "conversely, little decrease in demand is required to drive prices down." ??
<< <i>
<< <i>Does the sheldon rarity scale apply to all series- or just the bust series? >>
You can apply it to any series, but in most cases it would be useless. For Morgan dollars, the 1921 will be an R-1, and the 1893-S will be an...
R-1. >>
R-1 = widget
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"Common" equals any coin you want to sell to "Dudley Dealer," and he knows you need the cash. Various adjectives are used to modify "common" such as: "dull," "cleaned," "dinged," "bag marked," “glut on the market,” and so forth.
In practice, these terms are randomly associated with numbers from 1 to 70, plus (+) signs, stars, daggers and other mystical symbols and incantations. Together they form a continuum of confusion with the end points stuck in quicksand and the value of pi varying with the orbital eccentricity of the seventh moon of Jupiter.
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Good point....
<< <i>You can apply it to any series, but in most cases it would be useless. For Morgan dollars, the 1921 will be an R-1, and the 1893-S will be an...
R-1 >>
And that would be correct. The 1893-S is not a rare coin, just an expensve one because of high demand.
<< <i>Simply stated, rare coins are those which are not available in large quantities and require little increase in demand to drive prices up >>
The problem with this definition is that it introduces another rwo terms that requires definition. What is a "large quantity" (75?) and what is a "little increase"?
If you don't assign a numerical value to "Large Quantities" then anytme there is an increase in price it can be said to have been caused by a small increase in demand. And therefor ANY coin could be called "rare".