Ted Williams

BigRedMachine · July 13, 2006 9:59AM

Was watching the Sox/A's game on Espn tonight and the announcers were talk about Teddy Ballgame.

I'm sure a lot of you know this. Ted Williams won two MVP's and two Triple Crowns. That much I knew too.

But I never realized that the two years he won MVP was NOT the same years he was the triple crown winner. That's amazing to me!!! Can you imagine a guy winning the Triple Crown and not being an MVP?? What the hell were the voters thinking??? And how can you justify anyone else winning those two years??

I'm stumped. (as usual)

shawn

ToppsCo1lector · July 13, 2006 10:02AM

Because Teddy Ballgame was not media friendly? That's my only logical explanation.

WinPitcher · July 13, 2006 10:26AM

Shawn fwiw the year he hit 400 he did not win the mvp either.

Joe D won it it 41 and 47.

why joe gordon won it in 42 over williams i have no idea.

Steve

jad22 · July 13, 2006 10:35AM

Ted didn't win those years because he was not a New York Yankee. As everyone knows, many of Yankees win awards they do not deserve and recieve other perks.

WinPitcher · July 13, 2006 10:38AM

That must explain how arod won it last year.

steve

jad22 · July 13, 2006 10:43AM

Sure does. Ortiz should have won but it is just another example of NY bias. Two things you can count on in life, Yankee and Liberal media bias.

BigRedMachine · July 13, 2006 10:50AM

<< Ted didn't win those years because he was not a New York Yankee. As everyone knows, many of Yankees win awards they do not deserve and recieve other perks. >>

As much as I hate to see my thread derailed by Yankee bull$hit, I think you may be right.

When Williams won the triple crown in '42 with a .356 average and 36 homeruns, the mvp was won by Yankee Joe Gordon with a .322 average and 18 homeruns.

When Williams won the tirple crown in '47 with a .343 average and 32 homeruns, the mvp was won by Yankee Joe Dimaggio with a .315 average and 20 homeruns.

WTF is that??

Now I hate the Yankees.

At least Joe was boinking Marilyn. That's worth one extra vote.

WinPitcher · July 13, 2006 10:54AM

Shawn he did not start boinking her till after he retired.

steve

jad22 · July 13, 2006 10:59AM

Kind of off topic but he was actually going to get back together with her before she died, at least that is what was reported. I never understood how a war vet would marry Monroe anyway. She was married to that communist pig Authur Miller.

ToppsCo1lector · July 13, 2006 11:09AM

<< Kind of off topic but he was actually going to get back together with her before she died, at least that is what was reported. I never understood how a war vet would marry Monroe anyway. She was married to that communist pig Authur Miller. >>

You seen a pic? Yeah...that's why.

BigRedMachine · July 13, 2006 11:10AM

Kind of really off topic, but there was a great article in playboy a few months back about Marilyn, and the story goes that Joe and her were about to get back together when she died, and that he never really got over it. Loved her until the day he died.

You ought to read it if you get a chance, the story behind her death is still a mystery and really quite fascinating.

shawn

BigRedMachine · July 13, 2006 11:11AM

<< 

<< Kind of off topic but he was actually going to get back together with her before she died, at least that is what was reported. I never understood how a war vet would marry Monroe anyway. She was married to that communist pig Authur Miller. >>

You seen a pic? Yeah...that's why. >>

LOL, no kidding.

JoeBanzai · July 13, 2006 11:14AM

I really don't think it was a pro Yankee thing. Ted didn't like the sports writers and let them know in no uncertain terms. He swore at them and called them parasites. Dimaggio was not very friendly either, but would never explode like Ted did.

Ted Williams should have won at least 5 and probably 6 MVP awards, but the small minded writers didn't vote for him in a childish way to get back at him.

JoeBanzai

ToppsCo1lector · July 13, 2006 11:18AM

<< Kind of really off topic, but there was a great article in playboy a few months back about Marilyn, and the story goes that Joe and her were about to get back together when she died, and that he never really got over it. Loved her until the day he died.

You ought to read it if you get a chance, the story behind her death is still a mystery and really quite fascinating.

shawn >>

Yep I read it, it also talked about the infamous "diary" and had a reprint interview with her physcoanalyist I do believe. They were going to get back together, and I mean honestly...what guy wouldn't?

perkdog · July 13, 2006 11:48AM

Teddy might have won a few more MVP's or triple crowns had he not lost 5 seasons to serve his country.

jad22 · July 13, 2006 11:48AM

Good looks can't make up for commy blood and lust. Not to me anyway.

ToppsCo1lector · July 13, 2006 11:54AM

Well, if you haven't figured it out Politics is the new religion. Only thing it brings is more division among men. Just another way to classify and prejudge people without knowing them.

iamthegreatcornholio · July 13, 2006 11:57AM

<< 

<< Ted didn't win those years because he was not a New York Yankee. As everyone knows, many of Yankees win awards they do not deserve and recieve other perks. >>

As much as I hate to see my thread derailed by Yankee bull$hit, I think you may be right.

When Williams won the triple crown in '42 with a .356 average and 36 homeruns, the mvp was won by Yankee Joe Gordon with a .322 average and 18 homeruns.

When Williams won the tirple crown in '47 with a .343 average and 32 homeruns, the mvp was won by Yankee Joe Dimaggio with a .315 average and 20 homeruns.

WTF is that??

Now I hate the Yankees.

At least Joe was boinking Marilyn. That's worth one extra vote. >>

Yeah I think it's pretty tough to defend why Williams wasn't MVP worthy those years.

Speaking of Joe D, I collect wire photos and this is one of my favorites. It was taken in Japan in Feb 1954

jad22 · July 13, 2006 11:58AM

With what is going on the world right this second I have to believe that religion takes a backseat to nobody. We are on the cusp of WW III

ToppsCo1lector · July 13, 2006 12:05PM

Oh I definetly agree about religion being the #1 killer of all time, but Politics is closing the gap.

ctsoxfan · July 13, 2006 1:36PM

<< Teddy might have won a few more MVP's or triple crowns had he not lost 5 seasons to serve his country. >>

No question about it. And, there is something to be said for the pro-Yankee bias of that era also.

perkdog · July 13, 2006 9:00PM

Topps and Jad you are both correct. The world right now is like a gas leak........

perkdog · July 13, 2006 9:06PM

The Yankee bias for that era is somewhat understandable IMO, the Yankees were such a dominate force and with limited exposure to smaller market teams you can understand why the Yankees were always the talk of the town. If Ted played for New York he would have overshadowed Joey D.

coinkat · July 14, 2006 10:36AM

Great player and had the best swing in Baseball.

As for MVP awards and all the other crap awards associated with Sports, the film industry and just about anything else is worthless and basically means nothing. The reality is that during the course of a season, there are afew players that have great seasons... picking an MVP is not realistic and does not often reflect what really happened during the course of the season... seriously, we can almost go year by year and make an argument that passes the straight face test as to why the other guy should have got it... 1941- Joe or Ted? Good luck with that...

Awards are given merely to promote interest and while it may promote interest, it also creates a sense that the guy that plays for the Boston Red Sox or the Washington Senators has no chance unless they win the pennant. Okay, in the NL, Ernie Banks was the exception...

Barndog · July 14, 2006 10:53PM

Leigh Montville wrote a great book on Ted Williams, I recommend it highly.

softparade · July 14, 2006 11:24PM

<< The Yankee bias for that era is somewhat understandable IMO, the Yankees were such a dominate force and with limited exposure to smaller market teams you can understand why the Yankees were always the talk of the town. If Ted played for New York he would have overshadowed Joey D. >>

I agree. It is not the Yankees fault they were seemingly winning every World Series year after year. OF COURSE there is going to be bias when a team is just so dominant for a long period of time. In the case of this Yankee era, the bias is probably deserved. Also, lets not get crazy. Joe D. was a GREAT ball player. I am not saying he was better then Ted Williams but no way does Ted overshadow Joe D. if they played on the same team.

perkdog · July 14, 2006 11:44PM

Softparade, what I should have said and meant was that if Ted was a Yankee and Joe was a Red Sox I think Ted would have overshadowed him, just my opinion. Believe me Im not taking anything away from Joltin Joe.

softparade · July 14, 2006 11:45PM

<< Softparade, what I should have said and meant was that if Ted was a Yankee and Joe was a Red Sox I think Ted would have overshadowed him, just my opinion. Believe me Im not taking anything away from Joltin Joe. >>

Oh you are probably right. That is the bias thing ....and again, with that Yankee team the bias was probably deserved.

perkdog · July 14, 2006 11:51PM

Absolutley it was and IS deserved, no team in the history of baseball put together such a dominate force like the Yanks did in the 40's and 50's. That was the greatest era IMO, when the Dodgers won it in 55 it was like they conquered the world against insurmountable odds. That Brooklyn team would have won a few more championships if it wasn't for the Yanks, and they were a phenonimal team.

aro13 · July 15, 2006 1:20AM

I do not think it was so much of a Yankee bias so much as players on the winning team getting a huge boost in MVP voting by the writers. In 46 when Williams won the MVP he did not lead the league in any of the big three categories but was on the Pennant winning team. In the politics of glory Bill James does a nice job summing up the MVP votes for the 1939 to 1949 period.

The one particulary interesting year, was 1942. Williams won the triple crown with .356 36 137 numbers. Joe Gordon led the league in a triple crown of sorts too - most strikeouts, most times grounding into DP's and most errors at second base. Gordon won the MVP.

Lothar52 · July 15, 2006 3:09AM

Theodore Williams was the best hitter that ever has lived, is currently living, or will ever live in the future.

Thanks again for your support.

Loth

KalineFan · July 15, 2006 4:40AM

Yea, all I can remember is from back in 1963.................................Elston Howard won the MVP
award over......yea....my all time BB hero Al Kaline.....are you kidding me?

Not to take anything away from Howard, he was a solid player for the Yankees, but,
come on now......over Al Kaline? You might as well given it to Roger Maris or Mickey Mantle!

I must have missed something then! OR DID I ??? No way Howard should have received that
award in the first place. Kaline was tearing the league up with his bat and his glove that year
(among other things!).

Must have been all those NY Sports writers....! (OK, let the Yankee fans begin their onslaught!)

Tony
aka KalineFan

coinkat · July 15, 2006 5:12AM

Kaline was great player. I know he is in the Hall of Fall and had several great seasons... I really do not recall if he ever was named MVP

Divy1 · July 15, 2006 8:23AM

I believe that Ted hit for a higher average than Joe during those 56 games. Also, in one of the triple crown years, a Boston sportswriter left Williams off his ballot and Ted lost by one vote. Ted also lost a batting title because he didn't have enough at bats. Walks did not count as an at bat. They changed the rule because of him! I believe that he lost another batting crown by .0001!! One of the stats that I find interesting is that Williams ranks 17th all time in total bases. Every player ahead of him had more at bats. Ted had 7,706 at bats and 4884 total bases. Only Ruth had a higher slugging %! Ted had 1117 extra base hits. Aaron [and I take nothing away from his greatnes] had 1477, but had almost 4500 more at bats. In another thread there was talk about what players would have done if they could have played as long as Aaron or Yaz etc. Ted's missing 5 years during his prime were brought up. While he is credited with 19 yrs, he only played 15 full seasons. 1950 he was injured in the All Star game. 1952 & 53 he played a total of 43 games because of Korea and 1955 he retired and then returned to play 98 games. All of those partial seasons add up to a little more than 1 season of 154 game baseball. I divide his stats by 16. That would have given him almost 3600 hits, 683 HRs, 2360 runs, 1466 extra base hits, 2650 walks!!!!, 2413 RBI's [.80/gm only Ruth .88, Foxx .83, Simmons!! .82 & Gehrig, a staggering .92 had higher %] That's all I can think of off the top of my head as to why Ted was SOOOO great.
BTW, I badgered my parents into sending me to TW Baseball camp in 1961 [yeah, I'm that old]. I was playing on the camps All Star team against one of the hot shot local teams. So, here I am up tp bat when Ted strolls up and takes a seat on our bench. I'd read his book on hitting about a million times and I'd been tearing the cover off the ball at camp. What do I do? I tried to pull a low outside pitch and grounded out to short. 45 years and I remember it like testerday!
I guess that I've rambled on enough for now. The game has started.

perkdog · July 15, 2006 8:42AM

Divy1 my father went to TW baseball camp in 1961 and got a ball signed by Teddy, he always tells me the story. Everyone lined up for autographs and my father was aproached by Ted first and said "I bet you want that ball signed" Ted signed it and the rest is history, the ball sits on my desk. He grew up in Chelsea Mass. Funny if you both were at the same camp

Divy1 · July 15, 2006 10:09AM

I just checked some stats. In 1949 he lost the batting title to Kell by .0001 and also lost his 3rd triple crown!! He also led in On Base%, Slugging %, games, runs, total bases, doubles, extra base hits, times on base, at bats per HR and bases on balls of course. 2nd in hits. 1954 was the year he lost the batting title to Bobby Avila because he didn't have enough at bats [136 BOB].

fiveniner · July 15, 2006 10:46PM

Ted was never media friendly and that WAS the only reason he did not get his due.If I had a game on the line with only one pitch left I would want Ted to be the batter.

jaxxr · July 16, 2006 8:36AM

Divy1 makes a great point.

I am not sure which year, but a sportswriter from BOSTON.... not New York, omitted Ted from his ballot, he could not even place Williams at tenth most valuable, which would have been enough overall points, as used then, to tie for the actual MVP award. The BWA should have removed the guy, and eliminated his small-minded ballot from the counting.

Barndog, what is the title of the Williams book ? I have read four on Ted already and truly enjoy hearing others views on him and the baseball era of the 40s and 50s.

Only Cobb, Ruth and perhaps Bonds, can be considered hitters deserving to be in a class with Teddy Ballgame.

Ted Williams

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