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Paypal strikes again

Well I went back to using Paypal with some apprenhension. Everything was going smoothly until today. I sold an item almost 2 weeks ago for 75.00. I have already gotten feedback and buyer has it and was very happy with it. Today I get hit with a message saying that money was being taken due to fraudlent activity on the buyers account. When I spoke to Paypal about it I heard the same old story I heard last time that it appears my buyer was "selling" on another ID scamming people then buying items with that money. This is the second time this has happened to me and I can promise you there will not be a third time.

I am glad to see Bidpay is back in service and has set up a service just like Paypal's that Ebay approves of. Was hoping the Google pay service would be good but Ebay has already said no to it

Comments

  • Hi,

    I am going to start using other payment services. I had a case years ago against paypal and won image
  • I have been looking over the new Bidpay setup, the fees are slightly higher than Paypal's, and the buyers no longer have any fees. That was always one of the problems with the old Bidpay.
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,437 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wizard

    There's something wrong with Paypal's reasoning - I believe.

    You did nothing wrong - how do they know which is the "bad" money and which is OK?

    They are wanting you to take responsibility for something that's not your problem - it seems.

    You made a legal transaction and they took funds from this guy and gave them to you - now they say that money was illegally obtained? Fine - but where's "your" protection?

    You are out that card - they have mitigated some of their problem at your expense.

    Now I know why some don't like paypal?

    I would call them on it?
    I see their reasoning - but in the big picture - they are including the little guy in the big equation it seems in a very self serving manner.

    good luck
    mike
    Mike
  • This is the second time I have had the same thing happen, last time it was over 400.00.

    I don't see where punishing the unknowing sellers is the right thing to do. These should be some of those things they need to eat the expense of instead of punishing the ones who pay their bills.

    When I was without Paypal last time, I had no drop in sales or anything like that. Only reason I went back for for the ease of it not having to run to the bank. Ohh well

  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    PayPal is about the most evil outfit I have
    recently encountered.

    Smith buys a card from Jones;
    Smith is defrauded by Jones in that sale;
    Johnson sells a card to Jones;
    Johnson has to give Smith the money
    that Jones paid Johnson;
    Jones keeps Johnson's card.

    Only in the fanatsy world of "buyer protection"
    that evilBays corrupt sister PayPal has built.

    The PayPal TOS provides for this nonsense.
    Also, under many other circumstances - that
    have nothing to do with PayPal - a seller can
    get burned this way. Bank robber buys card
    from you, FBI takes money away from you,
    and gives it to the bank or the FDIC.

    But, PayPal is not the FBI. (Maybe they should
    be "looked into" by the FBI, though.) It is
    PayPal's FAULT that the thief had a PayPal
    account in the FIRST PLACE. PayPal and eBay
    both have set millions of fraudsters loose
    on consumers over the last 10-years. They
    need to clean-up, or CLOSE DOWN.

    I do not know what your financial situation
    is, but if they do it to me, I will hire the best
    lawyers in America to nail them; and, I do
    not care if I can "afford" it or not, as long
    as I can pay for it.

    storm image
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • I don't think there is any secret why Ebay banned Google's online payment service from the start. They know when Google gets their auction site up and running they could be a real thorn in Ebay's side.

    Bidpay however is allowed by Ebay and allows buyers to pay with CCs free of charge to them. Sellers pay the fees now and they are not far off from Paypal's fees. Sellers get their money deposited straight into their checking or savings account. No more money orders like there used to be.
  • I have started useing AlertPay. I am surprised at how many people have an account but don't advertise it as a payment option. It never hurts to ask.

    AlertPay
  • have started useing AlertPay. I am surprised at how many people have an account but don't advertise it as a payment option. It never hurts to ask.

    Is that on Ebay's approved list??
  • Unless they have changed the policy in the last 6-8 months or so - If you sent the card to the registered address and have delivery confirmation, simply file a dispute with Paypal and they will give you your money back. I know it has happened to us at least twice and both times we simply have to show that we followed proper procedure. Good luck
  • VintageJeffVintageJeff Posts: 1,282
    LOL all i can say is let paypal try to take a cent from me for this reason. I think all it would take would be a legal threat to get them to give it back. No way is it legal to take money from you for this reason. That is insanity.
    Collecting
    Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
    1967 Topps PSA 8+
    1960's Topps run Mega Set image
    "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
    image
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    << Payment Services not permitted on eBay:
    AlertPay.com, anypay.com, AuctionChex.com, AuctionPix.com, BillPay.ie, ecount.com, cardserviceinternational.com, CCAvenue, ecount, e-gold, eHotPay.com, ePassporte.com, EuroGiro, FastCash.com, Google Checkout, gcash, GearPay, Goldmoney.com, graphcard.com, greenzap.com, ikobo.com, Liberty Dollars, Moneygram.com, neteller.com, Netpay.com, Nochex.com, paychest.com, payingfast.com, paypay, Postepay, Qchex.com, rupay.com, scripophily.com, sendmoneyorder.com, stamps, Stormpay, wmtransfer.com, xcoin.com >>



    The best "prohibited payment" is STAMPS !!!!!!!!!!!

    storm
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • are beaver pelts still acceptable?


  • << <i><< Payment Services not permitted on eBay:
    AlertPay.com, anypay.com, AuctionChex.com, AuctionPix.com, BillPay.ie, ecount.com, cardserviceinternational.com, CCAvenue, ecount, e-gold, eHotPay.com, ePassporte.com, EuroGiro, FastCash.com, Google Checkout, gcash, GearPay, Goldmoney.com, graphcard.com, greenzap.com, ikobo.com, Liberty Dollars, Moneygram.com, neteller.com, Netpay.com, Nochex.com, paychest.com, payingfast.com, paypay, Postepay, Qchex.com, rupay.com, scripophily.com, sendmoneyorder.com, stamps, Stormpay, wmtransfer.com, xcoin.com >>



    The best "prohibited payment" is STAMPS !!!!!!!!!!!

    storm >>



    wow, i've never heard of prohibited payments. this is getting ridiculous. doesn't this sound like restraint of trade?
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "are beaver pelts still acceptable? "

    Yes. But, there is a 1.5% surcharge/furcharge, that
    Meg must be paid via PayPal.

    //////////////////////////////////////////////

    "wow, i've never heard of prohibited payments.
    this is getting ridiculous. doesn't this sound like
    restraint of trade? "

    ////

    No. EvilBay's in-house shyster-department has
    told Meg that the "venue" could be exposed to
    allegations by defrauded consumers that the
    "venue" ALLOWED "potentially dangerous and
    not secure payment methods" to be used on
    the "venue."

    What about the "allegations" that eBay/PayPal lets
    any thief on the planet set up shop and steal from
    consumers ALL DAY, EVERY DAY?

    storm image



    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • I do not know what your financial situation
    is, but if they do it to me, I will hire the best
    lawyers in America to nail them; and, I do
    not care if I can "afford" it or not, as long
    as I can pay for it.



    Storm...let me know...I have 2 lawyers...BOTH take sportscards in trade for services!! lol
  • bri2327bri2327 Posts: 3,178 ✭✭
    It would take only one time of that happening for me to turn my back on paypal forever. That is definately a disgrace. You really should threaten some legal action, it very well may give them a kick in the a$$.
    "The other teams could make trouble for us if they win."
    -- Yogi Berra

    image
  • I've been accepting paypal for years and only have had one chargeback filed against me which I won. However, I conitnue to read these horror stories from other sellers. At one time I thought that if I crossed every "T" and dotted every "I" that I would never encounter a paypal problem. I have since changed my thinking and now consider myself lucky. With this said, I stopped accepting paypal for high end items (over $700). I'm more than happy to take a few dollars less for my items (I know some people will not buy an item from a seller who doesn't accept paypal which means I might have to lower my price to sell an item) in exchange for the risk of losing it all.
    Rich
  • Unless they have changed the policy in the last 6-8 months or so - If you sent the card to the registered address and have delivery confirmation, simply file a dispute with Paypal and they will give you your money back.

    That does not apply in these situations. This is simply Paypal acting as judge, jury and executioner. This is even allowed under the TOS which are shady at best. The TOS actually make it nearly impossible for the average person to beat Paypal. This is why they have only been hit hard that one time.

    This is also why some states are sitting back and seeing how Louisiana finally makes out with Paypal. They are still in court over a law that Louisiana put into action 4 years ago that prohibits Paypal from doing any form of business within their state

    As far as illegal payments go, Google is threatening lawsuits against Ebay over their recent decision.

    I did a search and over the past few weeks Bidpay has exploded in usage on Ebay. Many sellers who are using it no longer list Paypal as a payment option.
  • (I know some people will not buy an item from a seller who doesn't accept paypal which means I might have to lower my price to sell an item)

    Did you know that Ebay research indicates that items without Paypal only sell for 3 to 5% less than those with Paypal. Do the math on that, by the time you pay the fees to Paypal, you are usually coming out about the same if not more in most cases.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "Did you know that Ebay research indicates that items without Paypal only sell for 3 to 5% less than those with Paypal. Do the math on that, by the time you pay the fees to Paypal, you are usually coming out about the same if not more in most cases."

    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    That is VERY true.

    But, MANY buyers will not bid if PayPal is not "an option."
    MANY buyers have adopted this position even if they
    plan to pay with a check or money-order. Somehow,
    buyers feel the "seller MUST be legit if PayPal gives
    them an account." (This will probably be a major
    element in the series of pending lawsuits that will
    seek to force PayPal to find out who they are
    REALLY dealing with b4 they allow folks to open
    a PayPal account.)

    storm
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • My sales never really diminished one bit when I dumped Paypal the first time, I don't expect them to diminish much now.

    With Bidpay becoming a larger force recently on Ebay I don't see much of a problem. I know of 3 Power Sellers who have dumped Paypal altogether and told me they have seen no change in their sales and Bidpay payments are becoming more and more common for them. July 1st I looked up bidpay in an Ebay search there were 85,000. Today there are over 500,000.
  • jskirwinjskirwin Posts: 700 ✭✭✭
    Anyone have links to stories about the lawsuits?
    It seems to me that Paypal has been skirting the limits of the law since its inception, and I'd be surprised if some class action lawyers haven't targeted that outfit for some serious $$$.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    Just google PayPal lawsuits, to get started in your
    research of what has already been filed. There are
    many more being drafted right now.

    This old one is really funny, in a terrible sort of way.

    //////////////////////////////////////////////////


    Auctionbytes-NewsFlash, Number 265 - February 26, 2002 - ISSN 1539-5065


    Latest Online Auction Related Scam: Bogus PayPal Lawsuit Sites
    By Ina Steiner
    AuctionBytes.com
    February 26, 2002
    Jacoby&Meyers filed a nationwide class action lawsuit against PayPal on February 20th alleging improper restriction and administration of customer accounts. The law firm is now seeking an emergency order concerning the growing number of "angry consumer" Web sites providing information about the consumer lawsuit.

    The class action lawsuit against PayPal alleges an aggressive and overly broad anti-fraud policy that caused erroneous and wrongful restrictions on user accounts, and that the company deliberately conceals from customers important contract information about consumer service and account restrictions.

    Jacoby&Meyers says its Web site http://www.JacobyLawyers.com has been flooded with emails about frozen PayPal accounts. But Some Web sites that have sprung up to discuss the case suggest that consumers "direct all class action questions here," and one is actually charging for information about the class action lawsuit. (I wonder if they accept PayPal.)

    Jacoby&Meyers is seeking an emergency order from the California Superior Court directing Web site operators to refrain from suggesting any affiliation with the class action lawsuit. Jacoby&Meyers has asked for an emergency order to avoid confusion and to prevent any broadcast of misleading information about the lawsuit.

    "Some PayPal consumers feel they have been misled once, and we want make every effort to make sure they are not misled a second time," said Gail Koff, managing partner and co-founder of Jacoby&Meyers.



    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • Does Bidpay require delivery confirmation like Paypal does?
    Collecting Vintage Baseball.
    My ebay listings
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    Item 5., though it does not say so, contemplates "delivery confirmation,"
    and not a mere "receipt for mailing." (For them to allow it any other way
    would be an invitation to fraud.)

    Item 2., CLEARLY contemplates "delivery confirmation."


    b. Seller Protection. For each Payment, if a Card payment submitted by a Buyer is approved by BidPay and applicable funds are remitted by BidPay to Seller’s Bank Account, BidPay shall assume the Chargeback risk for such Payment subject to satisfaction of ALL of the following conditions:


    1. the goods shipped are not subject to the “Restricted Transactions” terms set forth in Section 2.1.e. below;

    2. Seller ships goods using an established courier or postal service that provides shipment confirmation services;

    3. the goods are shipped within seven (7) business days or the timeframe stated in the auction listing, whichever occurs earlier, of Seller’s receipt of the applicable funds from BidPay;

    4. the addressee information for the shipment is filled in correctly;

    5. Seller provides BidPay with a complete and accurate copy of the proof of shipment for the Transaction in question within three (3) business day of BidPay’s request for such documentation;

    6. Seller was not engaged in illegal, fraudulent, or misleading activity related to the Transaction;

    7. Seller assigns and delivers to BidPay the proceeds of any insurance recovery received from the delivery service if the shipment was insured; and,

    8. Seller is at all times in full compliance with applicable laws, rules, regulations, statutes, ordinances, and the terms and conditions of this Agreement.


    EDITED TO ADD Important INFO:

    Your old BidPay account is no lonegr valid. You have to re-register
    if you have not done so in 2006.

    storm

    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • stanforddudestanforddude Posts: 83 ✭✭✭
    Two months ago I sold a pair of tickets to a semifinal game of the World Cup of Soccer for $3000. Buyer was happy, left positive feedback and the tickets were sent registered mail with signature confirmation. Furthermore, I've probably had 500 previous transactions with no trouble - I have a reliable history.

    Next thing I know, Paypal has "restricted" my account. In other words, the $3000 is being witheld from me and I am unable to send or receive money through my account. After about a dozen phone calls with useless customer service reps, they explained that all sellers of World Cup tickets have been given this restriction. This is because many transactions involving World Cup tickets were fraudulent and therefore they made a new policy to suspend all World Cup ticket sellers' accounts. I was given the following options:

    1) Refund the buyer his money. (The buyer already attended the soccer game in Germany, so I'd be out $3000!)
    2) Wait 6 months before my account will be reactivated. (Without earning interest on the $3000!)

    Bottom line is that Paypal has completely screwed me over and refuses to listen to the details of my case.

    Don't let this happen to you!
  • Usually when Paypal restricts your account you cannot even send a refund. My account got restricted once for a short period of time because I went to Georgia to visit relatives. While I was there I logged into my account. They restricted it until I could prove it was me that logged in.
  • Ebay makes it easy for sellers to screw buyers.
    Paypal makes it easy for buyers to screw sellers.

    A marriage made in heaven!
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "Bottom line is that Paypal has completely screwed me over
    and refuses to listen to the details of my case.

    Don't let this happen to you! "

    ////////////////////////////////////////////////

    It can happen to anybody who sells expensive items
    and accepts PayPal payments. (BidPay has the same
    authority under their TOS.)

    The key is to get the money out of the PayPal account
    the minute it is posted.

    I would have my lawyer contact PayPal in the morning.

    I have "some" sympathy for PayPal and the other merchant
    clearing guys, because they need to make a profit in
    order to be able to provide me the service I need/want.

    BUT, if PayPal would do just two things, a lot of the
    account-restriction complaints would go away:

    1. DO NOT give anybody a PaPal account who does not
    meet the same credit-requirements that their "partners"
    at Providian impose on applicants.

    2. DO NOT allow PayPal to be used for the purchase of
    "previously-profiled high fraud risk items." (Tickets,
    gold/silver bullion, and a bunch of others.)

    If these restrictions make PayPal "not profitable," then
    their business model is flawed and they need to cease
    operations.

    storm
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • The key is to get the money out of the PayPal account

    This is where Paypal and Bidpay. The money you are sent via Bidpay is sent directly to your bank account. Bidway will not be able to go directly into your bank account to get the money like many think they will be able to, that is what got Paypal successfully sued a few years back. They will be able to put a hold on your account and not send you any money until the debt is paid off.

    Ther protection plan works out nearly the same as Paypal's.
  • While Paypal can benefit the right person and transaction there is a simple solution to all of these "issues" Just don't use the service. If I do not like a song on the radio, I turn it, no one is telling me what to listen to. No different here - As a seller or buyer you can elect to use or not to use. Case closed
    Carpe Diem
  • Figured I'd dig this one up and add to it as I am now going to refuse to use paypal as a payment option. Those image just zapped my account for $600+ as an apparent payment that was made to me weeks ago is now deemed suspicious. The funds in question are being held until they review and decide. Paypal was nice enough to send me an email telling me to hold off sending the item, which went out two and a half weeks ago.
    Next MONTH? So he's saying that if he wins, the best-case scenario is that he'll be paying for it two weeks after the auction ends?

    Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12



    image


    Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
  • I love how they try to tell you a week or so after the fact to hold off sending the item when by the time they tell you if you have not already sent the item you are in violation of their buyer protection plan. You lose either way.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "Paypal was nice enough to send me an email telling me to hold off
    sending the item, which went out two and a half weeks ago. "

    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    Well, so much for the "new and improved" seller protection
    plan that PayPal claimed it was going to "roll-out" in the middle
    of July.

    I do not think that I can do my eBay biz w/o PayPal. It is enough
    work to go to the post-office. I sure do not want to be standing
    in line at the bank to make small deposits.

    Also, PayPal is the ONLY thing that allows me to ship my
    stuff "almost immediately" upon payment. If I have to "hold
    checks/MOs for clearance," buyers will have to wait and I
    will have to keep a confusing stack of "items to be mailed
    in the future."

    storm
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    Paypal has a great service...the problem is, it has so many loopholes that have been exploited that it makes it very risky to use. I just had a buyer purchase $1080 worth of graded cards from me. I shipped them a week ago (3 days after I rec'd payment) and he starts harrassing me about the shipment. I sent the signature confirmation/tracking number the day after the 4th. I look at my paypal acct yesterday and it's -999.00 because of the hold that was placed. The cards look like they'll be delivered today, so these mother f*&&#$s better release the funds back into my account immediately. Piss me off.
  • I have never had a check or money order bounce and I have recieved well over 1000. Only problems I have ever had with recieving payments is through Paypal.

    If it is a postal money order you can get it cashed at the post office. If they don't have the cash to cash it on hand they can at least confirm it is real. I usually just hold small payments until I have many and deposit them all at once instead of manking many trips to the bank.

    Trust me once you break yourself of the "can't do business without Paypal" thought process, you will be alot happier as a seller. I know many power sellers aside from myself who have dumped Paypal, some have never taken Paypal at all.
  • I look at my paypal acct yesterday and it's -999.00 because of the hold that was placed. The cards look like they'll be delivered today, so these mother f*&&#$s better release the funds back into my account immediately. Piss me off

    It will take them at least 10 days to do so. Then they might decide that they want to get more information from you and limit your account. If they do this then it will take about 6 months to clear it up.
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