US Mint medals: "Chocolate" originals and "Yellow Bronze" restrikes

jonathanb

I took this picutre to illustrate a point for somone in email, but it's a good point so I figured I'd post it here also.

The US Mint produced a lot of bronze medals in the 1800s, but then they kept striking them through the 1900s. Some of the modern restrikes are still available on their web site. Obviously, the 19th century originals are worth more than the modern restrikes.

The modern restrikes are made from a slightly different metal than the originals, called "Yellow Bronze". The originals are typically described as "Chocolate" in color. Unfortunately, none of those color terms will do you any good without a basis for comparison.

Here is a picture showing four different specimens of the Washington medal cataloged as Baker-279b and as Julian CM-2c.

The top left is a modern restrike with no wear, showing how the Yellow Bronze looks unmolested (I've seen brighter specimens that are even more yellow).

The top right is another Yellow Bronze, but with wear. You can see that as these medals get a little wear, the "yellow" part of "Yellow Bronze" has less meaning, although it's still obvious in the protected areas if you realize what you're looking at.

The bottom right is a 19-century original. That's "Chocolate".

That leaves the bottom left. I don't know what to make of it. I bought it before I understood what an original was supposed to look like (and I didn't pay much for it anyway, so that doesn't matter). I'm pretty sure it's not an original, and the color isn't the only reason I say that. But I don't think it's a totally-modern restrike either. Maybe this is a restrike from the early 1900s rather than the late 1900s? Dunno. Always more to learn...

keets

are your colors accurate representations of the medals??

keets

these can be hard to sort out when "shopping" on eBay. perhaps the most readily available medal for comparison in all alloys are the Louisiana Purchase group from 1904 starting with HK-299. we get to judge copper, bronze, yellow bronze, gilt, toned silver and gold-plated bronze. i have an example that was listed as yellow bronze and is either gold plated bronze or gilt. judging from the appearance i lean towards gold-plated bronze.

jonathanb

Yes, the colors are accurate (on my monitor, anyway). The two in the top row should have a yellowish cast, the bottom left is on the greenish side, and the one on the bottom right is reddish.

Keets, can you line us up a siimilar series of pictures for the Louisiana Purchase medals? I've never understood how to tell gold plated bronze apart from gilt, or how to tell bronze apart from copper. Even brass versus bronze makes me scratch my head once the luster is gone...

jonathan

slumlord98

What's your opinion of this medal? The color, as I remember, was darker than the image, but not even close to what you called chocolate (looks very red to me). JQA peace medal Weren't thses struck over a fairly long period? From original issue date til the dies fell apart, when new dies were possibly made? If it is a much newer restrike, doesn't a frontline company like ANR have an obligation to properly catalog it as such?

How about this one? It was almost black, and struck within a narrow time frame according to the catalog. I bought this one because I have always wanted a John Reich medal, and this is supposedly struck from the original dies. 1804 Preble

I am a novice to these, but find them to be fascinating items. I see it is just as easy to get plucked in this specialty as any other.

jonathanb

Don't paint me as an expert, but my non-expert opinion says that ANR got those right. I think they're original. Both of them are "not yellow", which was the main point I wanted to get across in my picture. OK, well, on second thought the Adams medal is yellowish, especially a the nape of his neck. But it's not the right (or wrong) yellow. You have to get a feel for it. I think I'm at the point where I could be fairly confident identifying a piece in hand, but pictures are still iffy.

Another good indication is the quality of the surfaces. The "yellow bronze" restrikes are all (?) struck with a pebbly, matte surface that's totally unlike the original strikes. You can tell even from the picture that the Adams medal has glossy surfaces. I think the Preble medal might also, but that's harder to tell from the pics.

Here is another example I'm confident is original: A Grant Birthday meday, Julian PR-18. You can see the glossy surfaces clearly, at least on the reverse. It is also definitely "not yellow":

slumlord98

Thanks for sharing! I know essentially nothing about these, and learning is tough as there is a real lack of literature. The ANR images were lightened considerably to show more detail. The Preble medal is unquestionably from the badly rusted original dies, which, according to the catalog, were found in the 1870s in the Navy dept., being used as paperweights. This was back in the olden days when office windows were opened in warm weather to let in fresh air, and a breeze might send some important doc out on to the street.

The ANR medals all had very nice mirrored surfaces. I'm not sure why some are classified as proof and non proof. I can't tell the difference.

keets

i don't have a set of pictures but i can try to get some this week and bring the thread to the top with a PM when i do.

DUIGUY

Cherry Pie !!