T206, T205... What's in a number?

Elemenopeo

Can anyone explain the significance of the numbers (204, 205, 206, 214, etc...) in the designations of the tobacco sets? Feel like I should know this one by now... I must have been sick the day this was covered in baseball card history class.



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WinPitcher

Different year of issue, different series.

Steve

Elemenopeo

Yes, well, I do understand that there are different series issued at different times and that different names are given to them in order to differentiate between them. My question is ... why those numbers specifically?

WinPitcher

to differentiate between them. not sure exactly what you mean.

different year of issue, completely different series. does that answer the question?

the use of the letter T was for Tobacco

you may get a better answer, one more detailed form the guys over at VBC

Steve VBC

fsjeter

Jefferson Burdick, widely regarded as the father of modern card collecting, wrote the first card catalog, The American Card Catalog (ACC). It was first published in 1936. He used different letter and number combinations to identify early sets and we continue to use them today. He cataloged 19th century tobacco sets with "N", 20th century tobacco sets with "T", early 20th century candy sets with "E", and "R" for early gum company sets. Now, why he numbered it 206, I don't know for sure.

Scott

Edited to add: Some examples are (ACC designation in parenthesis)

1933 Goudey (R319)
1887 Allen & Ginter (N28)
1912 Hassan Triple Folders (T202)
1909 American Caramel (E90-1)
1888 Goodwin Champions (N162)

Elemenopeo

Scott -- Thanks for the info. That's just what I was looking for.

Steve -- It appears that you have read some of my other posts on these boards and have very reasonably come to the conclusion that I am not the sharpest crayon in the box. And I appreciate your patience with me in this regard, but even though I may be intellectually challenged, I was aware that different sets are known by different names. And thanks also for the link to VBC. Looks like a great site, and I may bother the folks there about this topic, also.


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fsjeter

<< <i>Scott -- Thanks for the info. That's just what I was looking for.

Steve -- It appears that you have read some of my other posts on these boards and have very reasonably come to the conclusion that I am not the sharpest crayon in the box. And I appreciate your patience with me in this regard, but even though I may be intellectually challenged, I was aware that different sets are known by different names. And thanks also for the link to VBC. Looks like a great site, and I may bother the folks there about this topic, also.


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It is possible that is the 206th set cataloged for that period. Burdick cataloged nearly every early sport and non-sport issue including postcards. It must have been a massive undertaking at the time. Following is a partial list of designations taken from Cycleback.

C: Early Cigar

N: 19th Century U.S. Tobacco

B: Blankets

Bakery inserts, including Bread

E: Early Candy and Gum

F: Food inserts

H: Trade Card

M: Periodicals

PC: Post cards

R: Candy and Gum since in 1930

E: early gum and tobacco

According to that site, all cards have a catalog designation (the designation for 1957 Topps is R414-11).

Scott

iamthegreatcornholio

Source: old cardboard - It's a cool site with a ton of pictures!

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Card Set Classifications

Classification of early baseball card sets is based on the categories found in the American Card Catalog (ACC). Although the scope of the ACC includes a wide range of cards featuring non-baseball subjects, the following categories are limited to only those that include baseball card sets.

B "Blankets" and cloth-like cards
C Canadian tobacco (Imperial Tobacco, C46, is the only baseball set)
D Bakery sets.
E Early gum and candy cards; "E" cards fall primarily into two time periods: 1909-1915 (designated here as Group "E1") and 1920-1927 (Group "E2")
F "Food" cards. Includes cards used to promote a wide range of foods ranging from breakfast cereals to ice cream
H Clothing manufacturers
M Inserts and promotions for magazines and newspapers
N Nineteenth century cards
P Pins (includes PD "bakery button inserts;" PE "button inserts with early candy or gum;" PM "miscellaneous inserts" as defined in the Sports Collectors Bible; PR "button inserts with recent candy and gum;" and PX "other novelties of plastic, metal, etc.")
PC Postcards
R Candy, gum and some other cards of the 1930's and 1940's (beginning in 1928; generally, these are a continuation of the "E2" cards)
S Stamps and "silks"
T 20th century tobacco cards; a one digit number, such as T3, indicates an oversized premium or cabinet card. The baseball tobacco card era spanned a seven year period--from 1909 to 1915. One set from 1919 (Coupon Cigarettes T213-3) and several 1950s Redman tobacco sets (T232-T235) are also listed in the ACC as baseball "T" cards.
V Canadian candy and gum cards. Roughly, the Canadian equivalent of some of the American "E" and "R" cards
W Miscellaneous section (mostly, whatever doesn't fit above). "W" cards include anonymous issues, cards from games, strip cards, and a long series of sets produced by the Exhibit Supply Company of Chicago.

With few exceptions, the ACC definitions have remained intact and are widely used among today's collectors. In a few instances, they have been clarified and expanded in subsequent publications such as Randolph Sugar's Sports Collector's Bible and Lew Lipset's Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards.

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Elemenopeo

Wow. Great information and great links. Thank you, thank you, thank you!




.

WinPitcher

Elem,

This was the first thread/post that you wrote that I was aware of. I did not think, nor did I insinuate that you were not 'sharp' my answer was the best I had. I was not sure exactly what you were getting at. Sorry if my answer came across as rude. i assure you that was not my intent. The link to VBC was for you to ask there in the hope that someone there had a better answer.

Steve

FYS

<< <i>Scott -- Thanks for the info. That's just what I was looking for.

Steve -- It appears that you have read some of my other posts on these boards and have very reasonably come to the conclusion that I am not the sharpest crayon in the box. And I appreciate your patience with me in this regard, but even though I may be intellectually challenged, I was aware that different sets are known by different names. And thanks also for the link to VBC. Looks like a great site, and I may bother the folks there about this topic, also.


. >>



Do your homework before you post a question on the VBC. Scott and Steve answered your question and gave the same information you would here on the VBC. That information is very easy to find. In an nutshell, Burdick invented the system and we follow it to this day. A specifc question to the VBC would be does anyone have informaiton or background on the numbers Burdick actually used. That is a legit question. Use the search function on VBC before you even ask that question. The VBC are not elitists, but it is a very knowledgable board and in general prefers the members and questions to stay at that sort of level.

Elemenopeo

Do your homework before you post a question on the VBC. Scott and Steve answered your question and gave the same information you would here on the VBC. That information is very easy to find. In an nutshell, Burdick invented the system and we follow it to this day. A specifc question to the VBC would be does anyone have informaiton or background on the numbers Burdick actually used. That is a legit question. Use the search function on VBC before you even ask that question. The VBC are not elitists, but it is a very knowledgable board and in general prefers the members and questions to stay at that sort of level.

Well, really, the whole point of posting a question like this on a forum like this or any other is to save myself the trouble and time of wading through various search engines and what not in pursuit of the information I'm looking for. I post it because I assume someone can give me an answer off the top of their heads... and that turned out to be the case here and I certainly appreciate it. I love learning new things about the hobby, and I learn something new on these boards almost every day because folks like Scott, Steve and Monsieur Cornholio don't seem to mind answering questions like mine.

I'm also glad to know for future reference that the folks at VBC prefer their discussions to be kept on a certain level and that I shouldn't bother them with questions that are less than 'legit' as you put it. Thanks for saving me from whatever retribution that would have come my way had I abruptly posted my question there without first checking the search engine.



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FYS

<< <i>

I'm also glad to know for future reference that the folks at VBC prefer their discussions to be kept on a certain level and that I shouldn't bother them with questions that are less than 'legit' as you put it. Thanks for saving me from whatever retribution that would have come my way had I abruptly posted my question there without first checking the search engine.



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Your question was absolutely legit and you should never hesitate to ask that sort of question on this board. I would wager that most collectors have absolutely no idea of Jefferson Burdick, who Bert Suger or Lou Lipsett.

Stone193

<< <i>Jefferson Burdick, widely regarded as the father of modern card collecting, wrote the first card catalog, The American Card Catalog (ACC). It was first published in 1936. He used different letter and number combinations to identify early sets and we continue to use them today. He cataloged 19th century tobacco sets with "N", 20th century tobacco sets with "T", early 20th century candy sets with "E", and "R" for early gum company sets. Now, why he numbered it 206, I don't know for sure.

Scott

Edited to add: Some examples are (ACC designation in parenthesis)

1933 Goudey (R319)
1887 Allen & Ginter (N28)
1912 Hassan Triple Folders (T202)
1909 American Caramel (E90-1)
1888 Goodwin Champions (N162) >>


Hi Scott
I have a little different info on the ACC in my file:

The first typeset ACC appeared in 1939 (called The United States Card Collector’s Catalog). The ACC was then updated/renamed in 1946, 1953, 1960, and in 1967 after Burdick’s death. The 1960 edition was reprinted in 1988.

My understanding is that he published an article in 1936 in a "hobbies" magazine and a 36 page mimeographed catalog in 1937-8. Then the ACC in 1939.

mike

Carew29

I was under the impression it also had something to do with Government cataloging within the Library of Congress.

Stone193

<< <i>I was under the impression it also had something to do with Government cataloging within the Library of Congress. >>


I don't know carew.

But I kind of doubt it?

mike

cravetopps

I wasn't aware of any of these sites so thanks for asking the question!!