Ethics Questions
storm888
Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
I stealed this concept from the coin guys.
If you respond to these queries, please be "honest."
(I will answer honestly what I would do, after some
other folks have done the same.)
1. You own a card shop. You buy a big loose-leaf binder full of 1950-60
raw cards from a 30-year old guy who says his grandfather left him the 300-card
collection. He shows you his drivers license so you can record his
personal info in your "police log," and you pay him $500 by check.
You think that you can probably parse out the cards and get about
$2500 out of the accumulation over a period of time on eBay. After
the seller leaves your shop, you get to poking through the cards
and find that most of the cards are stacked double in the view
pockets; after you start dumping the cards out you find there
were a total of 35 "hidden" Mantle cards that would have a graded
value of at least $30K.
Do you call the guy and tell him about the "mistake?" Or, do you
keep quiet, get the Mantle's graded, and keep all the money?
2. You own a card shop. A guy brings in 20 GEM-Elite 1955-1960 Mantle's
and tells you that the cards have all been trimmed. He says he
needs cash fast and will take $200 for the lot. After the guy leaves you
crack the cards out and see that you cannot tell if the cards are
"trimmed or not." One of your "card-trimming" friends stops by, looks
at the cards and says they are the "finest trims" he has ever seen and
they definitely "look gradeable." If the cards did slip by PSA they would
be worth $30K on ebay.
Do you send the cards into PSA and hope for the best? If not, how are
you planning to get your $200 back?
3. You own a card shop. Business has been very bad. A guy brings
in a shoebox full of raw cards that you know are worth $30K on eBay.
It is "pretty obvious" to you that the guy stole the cards, and he
is willing to sell them to you for $200. His ID is good and he will
sign your police log; you have little/no risk of getting "in trouble."
Do you buy the cards and call the cops after the guy leaves your
shop? Or, do you send the cards into PSA and enjoy your windfall?
End of Round One
If you respond to these queries, please be "honest."
(I will answer honestly what I would do, after some
other folks have done the same.)
1. You own a card shop. You buy a big loose-leaf binder full of 1950-60
raw cards from a 30-year old guy who says his grandfather left him the 300-card
collection. He shows you his drivers license so you can record his
personal info in your "police log," and you pay him $500 by check.
You think that you can probably parse out the cards and get about
$2500 out of the accumulation over a period of time on eBay. After
the seller leaves your shop, you get to poking through the cards
and find that most of the cards are stacked double in the view
pockets; after you start dumping the cards out you find there
were a total of 35 "hidden" Mantle cards that would have a graded
value of at least $30K.
Do you call the guy and tell him about the "mistake?" Or, do you
keep quiet, get the Mantle's graded, and keep all the money?
2. You own a card shop. A guy brings in 20 GEM-Elite 1955-1960 Mantle's
and tells you that the cards have all been trimmed. He says he
needs cash fast and will take $200 for the lot. After the guy leaves you
crack the cards out and see that you cannot tell if the cards are
"trimmed or not." One of your "card-trimming" friends stops by, looks
at the cards and says they are the "finest trims" he has ever seen and
they definitely "look gradeable." If the cards did slip by PSA they would
be worth $30K on ebay.
Do you send the cards into PSA and hope for the best? If not, how are
you planning to get your $200 back?
3. You own a card shop. Business has been very bad. A guy brings
in a shoebox full of raw cards that you know are worth $30K on eBay.
It is "pretty obvious" to you that the guy stole the cards, and he
is willing to sell them to you for $200. His ID is good and he will
sign your police log; you have little/no risk of getting "in trouble."
Do you buy the cards and call the cops after the guy leaves your
shop? Or, do you send the cards into PSA and enjoy your windfall?
End of Round One
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
0
Comments
2) I send the trimmed Mantles into PSA
3) I call the cops and report the stolen cards.
<< <i>1) I keep the cards and sell them.
2) I send the trimmed Mantles into PSA
3) I call the cops and report the stolen cards. >>
I agree on all 3 terms.
Looking for alot of crap.
My answers are different now than they would have been 20 yrs ago.
1. Call him back.
2. Pass.
3. Pass and call police and report him as suspect.
mike
2) Buy them
3) Buy them to hold and report the person. If I didnt buy them, someone else would and he would have gotten away scott free......
<< <i>1) Wouldnt have missed the cards doubled up in the binder
2) Buy them
3) Buy them to hold and report the person. If I didnt buy them, someone else would and he would have gotten away scott free...... >>
bf
I wouldn't have missed them either but in the spirit of the scenerio - what if you had missed an expensive Mantle - perhaps it was the 400th card and behind a cheap common not relevant to the overall deal.
What would you do?
Just curious.
mike
<< <i>
<< <i>1) Wouldnt have missed the cards doubled up in the binder
2) Buy them
3) Buy them to hold and report the person. If I didnt buy them, someone else would and he would have gotten away scott free...... >>
bf
I wouldn't have missed them either but in the spirit of the scenerio - what if you had missed an expensive Mantle - perhaps it was the 400th card and behind a cheap common not relevant to the overall deal.
What would you do?
Just curious.
mike >>
Mike
I have watched WAY to many deals in a shop over the years when a parent, wife, or husband has come back saying he wanted the cards back and there were cards missing. I didnt watch the whole transaction, but could tell who was the one trying to pull a fast one. Hard to believe, but any hijinks pulled will always come back and bite you on the butt, be it in an hour, week, year or somewhere down the line. I'm one of those TOO honest guys and have many times told people "I would love to own these, but I cant afford them. Here is a person I would recommend you call, and usually give them Ron Osers number and a list of things to make sure he tells him.
I always make sure to go over every card with the person in plain sight and let him know what he has. I was one of those "kids" back in the 70's that was buying anything I could get my hands on, and the differnce between me and everyone else was I would make sure I went over everything with a fine tooth comb. If a seller was impatient and just wanted me to throw out a quick number, I would do so, and shake my head over why anyone would be in such a hurry to throw away money.
I know this was hypothetical and in a moment of weakness, I'm capable of doing something dumb just like the next guy.
Lately, at my office, people have been "testing" me - it's as if God were testing me.
I have a good friend who I confide in with these kinds of things - we usually say a prayer and ask for the strength to do the right thing.
I just told someone tonite - we all cherish our collectibles and have great pride and joyment in sharing them. But, it's important, IMO, not to hold on to them too tightly - since they will wind up holding onto you.
mike
#3. Never, ever, ever, ever buy something that is stolen. Bad karma, dude. If you feel like losing your money, you can buy it and call the police. They will return the goods to the rightful owners and you will never see your money again and you will look like a guy who buys stolen goods, no matter what your intentions were.
Collector of Pittsburgh Pirates cards for a slightly less stupid reason.
My Pirates Collection
1. - sell the cards and then split the profits with the dude who brought them in.
2. - sell them raw and put in the auction description that they are trimmed.
3. - wait till he leaves and then call the cops.
Must add that's it is infinity easier to be honest
when one doesn't need the money to support their family.
Throw into the equation that my kid needs new shoes, but I can't afford them,
or my wife needs an operation but we're broke, and my answers might change. Situational ethics?
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
<< <i>
1. Call him back.
2. Pass.
3. Pass and call police and report him as suspect.
>>
I'm with Mike.
Vintage Football Card Gallery
2) I would crack them and send the Mantles to PSA for authentication.
3) Buy them contact the police, if nobody claims them then there is no crime here. It was highly possible the seller simply needed the money.
Edited to add the following: Regarding scenerio 2, I failed to mention that I would sit on those cards. I would do nothing with them. And since it has been at least two minutes since I originally posted and I'm still feeling guilty about scenerio 1, I think I would probably call the guy up, tell him about the extra cards and strike a new deal. However, I would tend to lowball the negotiation (I gotta get something for being so frigging honest, don't I?
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
2)I would get it graded by the professionals. If they think it's trimmed then fine. However, if they don't....better yet. why should I trust this friend as he could be just saying that they are trimmed in hopes that he could buy them for a lesser amount of money.
3)I won't get involved with stolen property thus no way in heck would I buy the cards.
Rich
I know our local Crime Stoppers will do this. There was a coin dealer here that got into a similar situation. The amount of coins stolen made it a felony, by him buying the coins for 500.00 and getting the sellers ID. He was paid a 1000 dollar reward from Crimestoppers for his help in solving a felony and leading to the guilty parties arrest.
Aside from that in scenario three there is no proof the cards were stolen to begin with.
If I new for a fact that I would get my money back once I turned the stolen cards over to the police, than I would buy them. However, more than likely I would either find a way to look at the guys licence or just right down his plate number and report him to the police after he left instead of actually buying the cards from him.
Rich
I have had several people, usually older customers bring in old coins thinking they are not worth much or not caring, usually wanting to deposit them or something. Now, I could take them keep them and sell them later for whatever they may bring. But, I have always told them the coins are usually worth XXX amount of dollars and they should take them to a coin dealer. I realize this isnt the same as cards because I dont have the passion for coins like I do with cards, but it is the closest thing I have to compare it to.
If the guy is not local and is leaving town getting his DL or plate would do very little to help the victim out.
Lets modify scenario 3 a bit. Lets say they you are the owner of those cards and you find out the shop you spend thousands of dollars with allowed your collection that was just stolen slip through their hands. Would you ever do business with that shop again?? I know I wouldn't.
2. Pass.
3. Pass and call police and report him as suspect.
>>
I'm with Mike also !!!!.
1) Back in those days there weren't any requirements to take any names and most people wanted quick cash anyway. If it were possible to contact the seller I would have done so and offered a little more, but probably not a whole lot. Back then vintage was COLD, with the exception of the "big cards" and Mantles.
If this were to happen today, I would contact the seller (if possible) and offer him a choice of more immediate cash (at whatever my current buying rate was) or offer to get them graded and sold for a 50/50 split. If the seller was not able to be contacted I would go ahead and move the cards, and make a mental note that if the guy was to walk into the store again, that I owed him some more money (based on what the cards were sold for.
Ethically, I don't have any issue with a store owner who would not feel obligated to the seller. These days everyone thinks anything old is worth millions anyway, so if they don't do their homework, it's not the fault of the one being offered the deal, and there is no excuse to at least look the cards up in a price guide.
2) Crack and submit to PSA. I would take the chance. If they are all trimmed I sell them on eBay - described correctly - and take my loss.
3) This is a tough one for me. If I was positive the crack head stole the cards, I would certainly buy them, call the police and let them take it from there. Like another poster said, if no one files a report, then I own the cards clear.
However, in real life, doing the right thing can cost you dearly (Rich G is going to love this story!)
. I had a guy bring in some G-VG 1950s stuff, stars, mostly, so I give him a fair offer and he sells the cards to me. I had no inkling the guy had stolen the cards. The story was the usual "...my dad gave these to me and I don't like baseball..." story and the guy was old enough for the dad to have collected the cards as a kid. So no red flags at all.
A couple of weeks later, the police come into my shop and tell me that they caught the guy, he confessed, and told them that he sold the cards to me after stealing them from another shop.
So I turn over the cards, the cops take them without giving me any kind of receipt. Later DA calls me and informs me of the court date so I can be there and testify that I bought the cards. Well as most of these kinds of things go, the thief made a deal, the case was settled, the cards returned to the card store...and wait a minute - what about me? I'm out a nice chunk of change here.
So I get a letter from the perp saying that he felt really bad, stole because he needed money, etc...and offers to send me $50 a month until paid off...which I say cool, thanks for the offer and that works out fine with me.
Here's where I should have followed my instincts to see the "good" side of people and NOT trust the "authorities". I should note that my experience with the court system and the law has been almost entirely negative, so I'm a bit biased in that regard.
I get the guy's first check and coincidentally an old friend of mine who just happens to work in the County DA's office where the case was handled comes into my store, not knowing that I am the owner. So we chat a little, he didn't handle the case but said he'd look into it. However he did tell me that if I accepted ANY money from the perp outside of his parole terms, then I would lose the right to sue him. Said he'd look at the case for me and advise me what the next steps would be.
Get a call about a week later. Guess what, you weren't part of the plea deal. Original card store got their cards back but no mention of restitution to me in the deal. Hmm, better not cash that check. Contact DA handling the case. Says I was never mentioned and case was closed...sorry. Thanks for being a good citizen though. DA friend says I could petition to get the case reopened (not likely with such a small case) or just sue the guy, get a judgement, then he can make payments to me since I now have a legal claim.
So, I return the check to the guy, explaining the situation saying I have to sue you, sorry, don't take it personally, then you can start paying me. Don't hear back. Guess he took it personally. After some time went the the return address on the envelope. Woman answers the door, I explain who I am, she says the guy just took off, couldn't handle the embarrassment or the pressure. Wouldn't tell me where he went.
Tried tracking him down to no avail...finally gave up. Had I just let the guy pay me an not listened to the lawyers, I would probably have at least recovered some of the money.
Bottom line is, I'm still trusting of people (see Kid's Cards Stolen From Storage thread) but don't let me get anywhere near a lawyer. Apologies to any "good" legal eagles out there...
Easy answer on this on.
1. Call him back
2. Keep the Mantles for myself.
3. Pass
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
<< <i> His ID is good and he will
sign your police log; you have little/no risk of getting "in trouble." >>
In part 3 - keep in mind that the guy gave him a driver's license - I assumed he was local. Also, it depends on personal situation.
I answered it in a most general way. But, keep in mind, if one buys the cards - good chance they will be out 200$ unless the owner gives you a reward.
If one can afford the 200$ loss - no problem. If the guy has out of state license? Different possible scenerio.
Finally, I believe, if you contact the police, and they have no "record" of a B&E report - you own the cards I would guess?
mike
2buy
3buy
repeat steps 1through 3 every chance you get.
Oh wait that was when i was young and greedy.
Now
1 Call him Split the profits
2 Buy and still send to psa
3 Pass and report it.
Since ive grown up and adopted the second set of ethics I'va had a lot of big deals come my way. I truly believe in carma
That is a sticky situation I know, but would 200 dollar be worth losing 1000 a month in sales maybe more if word spread you allowed this to slip from your hands.
<< <i>Nobody has responded to my scenario with situation 3??
That is a sticky situation I know, but would 200 dollar be worth losing 1000 a month in sales maybe more if word spread you allowed this to slip from your hands. >>
Wizard
You make an excellent point - I didn't think of it like that - and yes, word may get out and hurt your business.
In the world of image and advertising - many businesses do as well with "word of mouth" (internal) advertising as by newspaper/mail out (external) advertising.
mike
Rich
this board and the coin board. If you want to see
how the coin guys have been answering a more
complex/sophisticated set of scenarios, you can
search the US Coin board for threads entitled,
"Lie, Cheat, Steal..." There are several in the
series, and they are worth your time to read
before you decide to walk into any coin store in
America.
Because the sample on this thread is MUCH smaller,
no one can say, "Card folks are more/less honest
than coin people." I can say that I found MANY of
the coin answers to reveal a very deep seated
"disregard for true/fair" and a definite tilt toward
the use of "superior knowledge to gain a massive
advantage."
The card repsondents, seem to lean more toward
"reliance on an abstract, but enduring, 'moral compass'"
to make their decisions.
Having been around the coin business for 50-years,
I have a very "realistic" view of coin dealers. That view
tells me that MOST of them will do or say anything
to "get what they want/need." Because the coin
market provides great liquidity, the need to "retail"
coins is VERY low on the "need" chart for most coin
shops. BUYING is really all that matters, because
an item bought for 10%-20% of its wholesale worth, can
be quickly dumped for 70%-80% of the BID price
listed in the Weekly Coin Dealer Newsletter.
Cards are less liquid - less true post-eBay - and while
most card shop guys are sharpshooters, they have
a bit less of the blood-lust found in coin dealers.
They also have far less opportuntiy and FAR less
experience at "crimes against ethics" than do
coin stores.
The "correct" answers to the questions are:
1. Missed the Mantle cards: This is a real hard
one because you have to be sure to protect the
"buy," if you decide to act ethically. If you call the
guy up, tell him you have made a mistake, he may
tell you that he wants to "back out of the deal and
come and pick up the cards." While he would have
no good "legal" theory to support his decision, he
could still make the demand and you would have
"an unpleasant situation."
When you "discover the mistake," you call the guy
and tell him that you "sold the cards and found that
they were worth more than you anticipated." You
then decide what you want to tell the guy about
how much extra cash "you owe him." That is NOT
about ethics; it is about your concept of acceptable
profits and what you feel OK about. I doubt that
I would give the guy more than 25% of the pot,
but it would depend on "how I feel at the moment."
2. The trimmed cards: The "correct" answer is to send
them into PSA. If they come back graded, you can
rely on the expert opinion to ease your conscience
about having poluted the card pool. In fact, there
is no "good evidence" that the cards were trimmed
listed in the scenario. You only had the "word" of
one flakey guy and the "opinion" of a second flakey
guy; in fact, the PSA opinion would likely be the
correct opinion, and you need not feel guilty about
how you got into the deal.
If the cards are trimmed, you can ethically sell them,
if you can assure that they will not later be sold
as not-altered. (A tough job.)
3. The shoebox full of "stolen cards:" Some folks
were not sure the cards were stolen; most just
went with the scenario. Because of "politically
correct" restraints, I left out a lot of the words that
would have made it REAL clear that the cards were,
in fact, stolen.
"Correct Answer:"
The ONLY way to "help assure" that the lawful owner
gets his cards back, is to BUY them and call the cops
immediately after the burglar leaves. While it is sure
possible that you will lose your $200, it is quite unlikely.
The owner would almost certainly give you "some reward,"
and/or crimestoppers would fund your expense.
I will not post "another in the series," because this
one told us about all we are likely to learn. But, if
somebody has some new scenarios that explore
"ethical challenges," I will be a respondent.
In the end, and you can check the coin forum to
make your own decision, but I would have to say
that "the card collectors in this thread seem to be
substantially more interested in doing the right
thing than do the coin collectors in the other
threads."
This sample was small, the coin sample was VERY large.
Also, my bias-against/knowledge-of coin sharpies may
influence my conclusion even if this sample was larger.
My true feelings: ALL coin dealers are required to act
in ways that most ordinary people would find "unethical;"
the nature of the business is what it is; and what it has
always been. (You will be shocked when you read some
of the coin dealer answers!)
Card dealers are less experienced on the con and that
may make them "less hardened" to the notion of
instituting what one respondent here called "situational
ethics."
Thanks for your "honest" answers.
storm
2. Buy. They are still Mantles.
3. Would buy them, call the police and explain my concerns--if he didn't sell to me, he would be selling them elsewhere. If legit, no harm no foul. If he stole them I could be the one who reunites them with their rightful owner.
I truly believe in karma.
Little story in conjunction with #3
I worked in jewelry back in the mid 90's. My store was a buying store. Well, some girl comes in one day and tries to sell me a ring. I'll never forget the ring because it was a name ring and the name was 'Ravena'. Now there was a Ravena that worked a few stores down and I knew her just by sight--never talked with her but she'd show up window shopping on her break with her name tag on. I knew it had to be her ring and I knew the chances of another Ravena running around was nil. So, I offer the girl $20 for the ring, she bites. I get her info off her license pay her and off she goes. About a half hour later, here comes Ravena window shopping. I tap on the window with her ring. Her jaw drops and she comes running in the store. She begged me to tell her where I got the ring from. I explained to her that some girl was just in and sold it to me. I told her I bought it because I had a feeling it was stolen and I wanted to make sure she got it back. Ravena explained to me that the ring was indeed stolen out of her car a week earlier, along with her purse, stereo and a bunch of CDs. We contacted the police shortly afterwards and a detective came down pretty quickly. Turned out this girl had been breaking in to cars for a while and had done a lot of damage and the cops were itching to catch her. I gladly handed my log book over to the officer, Ravena's ring got handed over for evidence and the seller got nailed big time. Ravena asked me why I'd be willing to lose money like that and all I could think of was what if that was my daughter? What if that was my wife? What if I was the one that gave that gift, only to hear it was stolen?
Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12
Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
Card guys, for the most part, have a sports/games type of background and we bring to our hobby a certain sense of fair play and sportsmanship. That "certain" sense varies from none to a lot, but it is an influence. Coin guys, as a rule, don't have that because their collectible isn't a spin off from a team sport activity. Theirs is more a spin off from the dog eat dog best man win no matter what or how mentality of commerce. I would think comparing coin guys to stamp guys would be closer than comparing them to sportscard guys. Again, this is just my opinion; it's very generalized and doesn't mean to include all people.
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
That sounds reasonable to me.
On coins - I have absolutely no idea what they do or don't do. So, I'm clueless.
I was watching a show on coins on TLC and the stuff they do in altering coins ranks right up there with cards.
I would imagine - also - that it would be much easier to master the card industry than coins or stamps?
Storm
Thanx for the ethics test - when it comes to honesty - the answer lies in doing "unto others" and everything will fall into place IMO.
A situational test is never the same as the real thing - a moral dilemma is a moral dilemma IMO - and I don't know exactly what I'll do until it comes up.
And I agree with someone who said - if the electric bill isn't paid, things change when acting on a situation.
mike
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Those are very true words. Coin and Stamp guys came out of the
same bottle when I was a kid; they were nerds and I was one of
them. Card guys were baseball players and I was one of them, too.
I really only liked any of the collectibles as an element of "value,"
with the sometime exception of stamps.
There was no infusuion of "sportsmanship" in these guys
during their kid days because MOST of them did not play baseball/sports.
(In the 50s, it was the HEIGHT of geek-equivalent to collect stamps/coins.)
Card guys loved baseball, and a little football. The "values" that we
admired in our heroes were things that we at least had exposure to,
even if we "turned out bad" later on. Card kids were thought of as
normal bike-riders and skateboarders, while coin/stamp kids were
"wierd." (BTW, our skateboards were 2X4s with roller skate wheels
screwed - sometimes nailed - to the bottom.)
I am certainly NOT claiming that I did not do some of the stuff that the coin
guys seemed to think was "OK," in the lie, cheat, steal threads.
That is what the stamp and coin business is/was about.
Because of my exposure to sports, however, I never had a problem in
"recognizing" the lack of ethics inherent in ALL of "my industry." The
current coin threads referenced, seem to indicate that some of these guys DO
NOT KNOW that it "is wrong" to do some things that "normal people"
would never dream of doing.
"Hasty Generalizations" are indeed dangerous, BUT...............
storm
I think I would stay away from the coin forum! They might have some sharp instruments.
First, the situations are so unlikely, it's impossible to know how you would react.
Second, we're not dealers. While some dealers have made major strides in terms of their ethics, morals and practices, they depend on cards to put money on the table for their families. In my experience, dealers open stores for just this reason. The occasional walk-in can often make or break a fiscal year. They are careful with their approach with uninformed sellers. They will always try and get the sellers to name a price and, thus, they genuinely feel they have released themselves from any culpability.
Baseball card dealing has never been the classiest endeavor. Anytime you have grown men dealing with kids, there's something overtly wrong about it. I think the most successful dealers do their homework and anticipate the market. They sell on Ebay and their feedback is at least 99.0%. Although a ton of nonsense takes place on ebay, PSA holders have stabilized the hobby to some extent. You can purchase a card with a built in guarantee of authenticity or get your money back from PSA or the dealer. However, the common buyer has to deal with PSA's business practices - A small circle of loyal submitters gets all the vintage PSA 9s and ridiculous bumps on grades which fouls the whole system.
We can deny it, ignore it or understand it because there would be no PSA without the guys who went PSA at the start. However, why does Bleam qualify for inflated grades? He held out longer than anyone. Check out his scans and see how his like graded cards compare with yours. It will make the top of your head blow off like a volcano. A lot of people are angry about his prices, but he's entitled to ask whatever he wants for his cards. Also, his customer service is flawless.
Thus, here's a good ethics question - Would you feel any guilt if your cards were consistently bumped without merit? Are you happy when your card is graded correctly or do you hope you'll beat the system with some form of favored treatment?
Personally, I think most people are generally satisfied when their cards end up in the appropriate holders. But, would you want your sets to have higher G.P.A.s without merit? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of succeeding on a level playing field? I haven't seen one sincere collector on this site ever want this advantage. However, it's difficult to upgrade when you have to spend a Brinks' truck of money to improve your G.P.A. and receive an inferior card to the one you're currently holding.
Any thoughts?
JLC
"I have one word for you, Ben... Spastics. Got it? Good. Enough said."
2. Submit to PSA. Who knows if they are really trimmed except for the "experts"?
3. Buy them and call the cops. If they don't locate the victim, you can get them back.
I just had a similar incident just yesterday. I bought a PSA certified autographed sports magazine photo on Ebay. I received it yesterday and when I took it out of the protective cover I found 3 other PSA certified sports magazine covers signed by big name HOF's. I immediately contacted the seller and offered to send them back or pay a fair price for them.
I believe that the old "golden rule" is the right way to live. If I had made such a mistake, I would appreciate it if a person would treat me fairly. It is sorely lacking in this "hobby", or business. JMHO
Regards
Gary
Would you feel any guilt if your cards were consistently bumped without merit?
Are you happy when your card is graded correctly or do you hope you'll beat the
system with some form of favored treatment?"
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
1. No guilt to feel, if I did not cause/influence the grade. The TPG is the "expert,"
I just sell what the "expert" says that I own.
2. I want the highest grades that can be justified by the "experts," if/when
they are later called upon to "review" their work.
2A. "Hope" springs eternal among children, fools, and folks who submit cards
to PSA.
I have offered, on a few occassions, to pay $1.00 or more to someone who can prove
that "favoritism is endemic" at PSA.
If somebody submits 2500 cards a month, they are going to average a greater number
of "bumps" than someone who sends in 25 a month. That is a function of math, not
part of a conspiracy. Some big submitters also get their share of junk grades; we
know that when we look at their "sale items" on eBay.
ONLY if PSA was run by lunatics would they risk the firm's "position" to make a few
eBay dealers happy. Such a "conspiracy" would be impossible to conceal, and it
would NOT be profitable in the long term.
If you read the CLCT 8Ks on the YAHOO site, it is pretty clear that PSA is not selling
out the integrity/reputation of the corp by upgrading in a manner that can be labeled
"favoritism." (Neither is PCGS, although they too get "accused.") The fact is, PSA
needs to produce a WHOLE bunch more revenues for CLCT if they want to be "an
ultimate profit center" within the corp. Would PSA risk going into the toilet via any
kind of intentional bad acts? I think not. Would CLCT allow PSA to get away with such acts?
VERY, VERY doubtful.
If everyone at PSA was a corruptnik, they still could not get away with the
conspiracy of favoritism. The risk of discovery is too great, and the certainty
of future extortion too HUGE. The people who run PSA know that the bust
would come, and they would never risk the blowback.
If PSA was given an ultimatum by a big submitter, PSA would invite that company
to take their cards to a "better grader." Submitters are happy with the grades they
get at PSA; when they get unhappy, they can submit into a holder that has less
"value added" than the PSA holder.
All grading outfits know that they are "creating wealth" for the submitters. That
wealth is generally dispensed in small doses and it is pretty evenly spread around.
storm
2) Buy, send to PSA
3) Buy (with check/cc if possible), but as soon as he leaves, call the cops. That way, if they weren't stolen, however unlikely, I get really luck. If they were, however, and the police were able to find that out, then hopefully I would get the money back (hence check/cc, to make it more likely), and owner would get their cards back.
Looking for Jonny Gomes cards, especially Triple Threads and printing plates. Will consider all cards, though. Got something? Contact me at c_u_l_1@yahoo.com
<< <i>I have offered, on a few occassions, to pay $1.00 or more to someone who can prove
that "favoritism is endemic" at PSA...
storm >>
storm, well put! I fully agree with what you say regarding alleged favouritism. Now if we could just put to bed the "314/315/316" grader myth. It's a total crock!
<< <i>
<< <i>I have offered, on a few occassions, to pay $1.00 or more to someone who can prove
that "favoritism is endemic" at PSA...
storm >>
storm, well put! I fully agree with what you say regarding alleged favouritism. Now if we could just put to bed the "314/315/316" grader myth. It's a total crock! >>
You brought up the grader of death number!!! 2 grades off your next submission!
Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12
Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
<< <i>
ONLY if PSA was run by lunatics would they risk the firm's "position" to make a few
eBay dealers happy. Such a "conspiracy" would be impossible to conceal, and it
would NOT be profitable in the long term. Storm >>
Well, many many people belive they give favoritism to big dealers as it is, and still submit to PSA.
JOhn
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
1. I would call the guy back that he missed 35 cards and urge him to keep it in remembrance of his grandfather. If he insisted that he just wants to cash in, I would make a fair offer based on condition and what profit I need to make the Card Shop Business work. Money is always good, but I rather form meaningful relationships in life and use opportunities to reveal my character. Chances are, this guy will always remember you for being a nice guy.
2. There is nothing wrong with trimmed cards (only wrong when you try to decieve people with them). Sure, I would buy them. However, I would send them in to PSA to get them authenticated, so I can sell them for what they are and not deceive anyone. Some vintage cards are so scarce that having a damaged one is good to complete your collection.
3. I would buy them. Scan all of them and store on a computer disk. I would then report the guy to the authorities stating all that happened. If someone claims them, great. If not, they would be yours to keep. I just don't see how not purchasing them will help the original owner get his stuff back. This is a way of helping out the police. I have a hard time believing this will come back to bite.
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