To all you guyz who had -- and sold -- #1 sets ... is there a time to sell?
Justhavingfun
Posts: 835 ✭
Just thinking out loud, I've been wondering if there comes a time when perhaps it is best to retire the sets and move on.
I've been half thinking of retiring a few of mine, including my #1 ranking Standing Liberty Quarters full headers, and my (also #1 ranking) Jefferson Nickel full-steppers.
But if I do that, it will be from boredom. I never get a chance to upgrade any more, so my sets just sit there in a bank vault in America and since I'm in Southeast Asia most of the time, I never even get a chance to fondle the coins and gloat over their beauty. So what good do these glorious sets do me?
In the meantime, the collecting I've been doing hasn't really been Registry Set oriented. Instead, I've been doing genuinely dumb stuff like learning to read and write Thai so I can collect their coinage which is extraordinarily beautiful, even though it's lacking in any realistic chance for appreciation.
And talking of stupid things to collect, the Thai coins (and my Thai staff's love of elephants) led me to start collecting elephant coins. And while that may be dumb, I'm having a ton of fun doing it, something that hasn't been the case (for me) with US coins for years.
In the meantime, I picked up a beautiful d/d Jefferson Nickel, pop top and it was interesting but it cost me megabucks and I could have bought 50 different elephant coins for the same buckeroos any one of which would have been a better visual feast that wouldn't have required a loupe to enjoy. A US coin dealer started picking up some of these elephant coins for me and to my surprise he commented something along the lines of: "At first I thought you were nuts, but the elephants on the coins are really impressive. I can see why you like them." Well, he was right the first time, I is nuts to collect 'em.
I've gotten so bored with the Registry Set scenedrome, for the most part, I've even stopped entering my sets and upgrades. I was going to enter my Liberty Head Nickels, biz strikes and proofs, and then I got an 1886'er in VG for chump change that I liked better than any other Liberty Header in my collection. It was double strike and the spread was simply enormous. To see two "V"s separated by almost a quarter of an inch, on a Liberty Head nickel -- gosh what a beaut. I sat there looking at it scratching my head in awe that people could have looked at that coin and spent it, over and over again, thousands of times, without pocketing it.
And I looked that nickel and asked myself: What am I doing with the Registry Set Lib Nickels if this VG Lib Nickel -- a tenth the price of some of the coins in the set, is more fun. So my Liberty Headers are sitting on the sideline.
And I'm sitting here in Manila thinking to myself: Why am I still collecting this schtuff? Why don't I just sell the sets?
But every time I start to pull the trigger and go to the bank vault to look at the coins, they're so beautiful and fondling privileges are so nifty, and they stir such fond memories I back off.
I hope I haven't bored you, but like I said, just thinking out loud. Sometimes that helps to clarify what's in my head and I'm hoping some of your insights will help, also.
Warm regards,
Just Having Fun
I've been half thinking of retiring a few of mine, including my #1 ranking Standing Liberty Quarters full headers, and my (also #1 ranking) Jefferson Nickel full-steppers.
But if I do that, it will be from boredom. I never get a chance to upgrade any more, so my sets just sit there in a bank vault in America and since I'm in Southeast Asia most of the time, I never even get a chance to fondle the coins and gloat over their beauty. So what good do these glorious sets do me?
In the meantime, the collecting I've been doing hasn't really been Registry Set oriented. Instead, I've been doing genuinely dumb stuff like learning to read and write Thai so I can collect their coinage which is extraordinarily beautiful, even though it's lacking in any realistic chance for appreciation.
And talking of stupid things to collect, the Thai coins (and my Thai staff's love of elephants) led me to start collecting elephant coins. And while that may be dumb, I'm having a ton of fun doing it, something that hasn't been the case (for me) with US coins for years.
In the meantime, I picked up a beautiful d/d Jefferson Nickel, pop top and it was interesting but it cost me megabucks and I could have bought 50 different elephant coins for the same buckeroos any one of which would have been a better visual feast that wouldn't have required a loupe to enjoy. A US coin dealer started picking up some of these elephant coins for me and to my surprise he commented something along the lines of: "At first I thought you were nuts, but the elephants on the coins are really impressive. I can see why you like them." Well, he was right the first time, I is nuts to collect 'em.
I've gotten so bored with the Registry Set scenedrome, for the most part, I've even stopped entering my sets and upgrades. I was going to enter my Liberty Head Nickels, biz strikes and proofs, and then I got an 1886'er in VG for chump change that I liked better than any other Liberty Header in my collection. It was double strike and the spread was simply enormous. To see two "V"s separated by almost a quarter of an inch, on a Liberty Head nickel -- gosh what a beaut. I sat there looking at it scratching my head in awe that people could have looked at that coin and spent it, over and over again, thousands of times, without pocketing it.
And I looked that nickel and asked myself: What am I doing with the Registry Set Lib Nickels if this VG Lib Nickel -- a tenth the price of some of the coins in the set, is more fun. So my Liberty Headers are sitting on the sideline.
And I'm sitting here in Manila thinking to myself: Why am I still collecting this schtuff? Why don't I just sell the sets?
But every time I start to pull the trigger and go to the bank vault to look at the coins, they're so beautiful and fondling privileges are so nifty, and they stir such fond memories I back off.
I hope I haven't bored you, but like I said, just thinking out loud. Sometimes that helps to clarify what's in my head and I'm hoping some of your insights will help, also.
Warm regards,
Just Having Fun
Jefferson nickels, Standing Libs, and US-Philippines rock
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Comments
Boy, am I glad to see you back, at least for awhile. The boards have become very esoteric, if not truly boring. ( A thread that contains over 100 replies about a paranoid collector and his cleaning woman who readjusts his numismatic literature).
I have had the same thoughts about pursuing, with vigor, series that are complete and now just sitting. Why not sell, or at least retire them, so that another venture can be considered. For it is the chase that appears to be most exciting.
I suggest a sale of one or more of the completed sets.
Why?
1. Realization of a goal and the monetary reward of hard work, well done
2. Preservation, by a first class catalogue
3. Stimulation for you, and the new owners, that will accelerate both into other series.
I have felt great satisfaction in the sale of my liberty nickels, and have received at least some praise from the new owners. That is very gratifying, to know others are advancing their knowledge and interest.
After acquiring many beautiful rarities, it does take an unusual example to be able to say "Wow". It needs to happen at least infrequently, so that the drive will continue.
Thanks again for adding some thought to these discussions.
I think that once you lose the passion for any particular series it's time to move on. As I said in my other thread, we don't own the coins, we just rent them. There is always a right time to sell, unless you simply want a legacy to hand down...
You need to try gold coins. That's a great challenge and they are beautiful.
JB
Are there a couple of well heeled collectors just under you battling it out?
Is the series "hot" right now?
What is the depth of the collector base and money in that series?
Are there any investor types in the market that would be interested in buying the set even though it is not really their series?
If I were selling an SLQ set like yours, I would make it a year long process setting up a deal with an auction house where they heavily advertized for a year, and displayed the set at all the major shows during that year. Can you add something to the promotional, like an anniversary for an important date related to the series? 2008 would be the 70th anniversary of the Jeff nickel. Is anyone planning on releasing a new book on either series in the next couple of years?
Just a few thoughts, not exhaustive by any stretch.
I agree with SG that perhaps you should get into gold coins!
$20 Saint Gaudens Registry Set
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
If you don't need the money, what's wrong with leaving them in the bank? Enjoy them when you can or just forget about them.
If you would like someone else to enjoy them...sell'em.
Images would be great whether you hang onto them or sell them. You can take the pics with you anywhere.
<< <i>You should wait a few years so maybe I'll be able to afford more of you coins... hint hint
I'm with LR on this......I would love to be able to afford one of your coins....the numbers suggest you have great sets!!!
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I have also contemplated selling my Jeffersons. It has been difficult to upgrade and for me the thrill is in the hunt. In the last year I have only been able to upgrade a few coins in my MS set.
My coins are also in a safe deposit box, so to a large extent I was looking for upgrades that were higher graded. In the last year I have tried to upgrade my photo skills with okay results - I'm still not satisfied.
But at least now I can view my coins in a full screen and determine if potential upgrades in the same grade would better my set. The thrill is back and will keep my Jeffersons for a while longer. While my set rating may not increase the quality of my set should.
I’m guessing selling my Jefferson collection would be like shopping for pearls in Green hills mall in Manila, you take it for grant it, but you miss it when it is gone.
Frank
My Jefferson Full Step Variety Set (1938 - Current)
My Jefferson Proof Variety Set (1938 - Current)
<< <i>If you don't need the money, what's wrong with leaving them in the bank? Enjoy them when you can or just forget about them.
If you would like someone else to enjoy them...sell'em.
Images would be great whether you hang onto them or sell them. You can take the pics with you anywhere. >>
Wondercoin
TDN has a GREAT idea there about TrueViewing your sets. It sort of makes me wonder if you DID have Phil photograph your sets, would you be more likely to keep them because you have awesome pics and you can remind yourself everyday (by looking at them) how nice the sets are? My guess is that you would want to keep them. On the other hand, if you have them TV'd and you still want to sell them, the photos alone would be well worth the investment because you are going to bring much higher prices with photos of that quality. Lastly, all the people here on the boards that are drooling over your sets would finally get to see your coins! It's a WIN-WIN-WIN situation!!!!
By the way, I really liked your post. I am trying to fight off some of the same feelings about my lincoln registry sets as well.
All the best,Bruce Scher
ps it is cool to find those less expensive neat coins too..
a very low price in Krause but this will change as more people discover that low
prices do not equal common. They are apparently being collected since the more
available pieces have been increasing in price for a long time now.
PS. I tried for a very long time to get PCGS to take pix of coins. I felt that when contemplating a sale, sending the set(s) in for a whole-set presidential review was a good idea, and the perfect time for pix to be taken. I now know that I would have treasured the Tru-View pix of those coins that were the hardest to let go. Good luck with your decision JHF.
Perhaps there is a time to sell my #1 sets but I have not as yet found it.Perhaps it will help if you treat a set like a woman.If you are bored you just walk away.After all you are not married to any of your sets.
Have you tried collecting the finest quality corundum.Rubies and sapphires.The best rubies and sapphires come from Burma.I will bet you will agree with me that the finest quality is more beautiful than any 42 d/d nickel.Yes, I have dabbled in stones.
stewart
I think you're right ... selling the Standing Liberty Quarters might well stimulate interest in the series. It would freshen up my outlook on collecting. And nice catalogs would definitely be great things to hand down to the kids so they could understand what their old man did for fun. Heck, it might even get one of them interested in coin collecting.
In the meantime, all the coins I am collecting: Thai, Elephant coins, and off-metal nickels and Washington quarters are enormous fun. Gosh, picking up a 1944-D Jefferson Nickel graded MS63 RED BROWN, or a 1963 Washington quarter in AU 58 brown, is an enormous thrill.
Warm regards,
Just Having Fun
That says it, SaintGuru. And I have lost the passion for the SLQ's, though when Mr. Wondercoin visited he brought one of the most beautiful Type 1's I'd ever seen and just like the gal in the song "I can't say 'no'" -- I bought it. And no regrets. If I sell, maybe I'll keep a few duplicates, like that glorious Type 1 SLQ. Likewise, I'd hate to part with my unique collection of SLQ errors, and my unique SLQ pattern.
As for gold, I love the coins but I don't think I'll ever build another date set where all the coins look the same. A date set of off metal Jeffersons or Washington Quarters -- where each coin looks very different from the next -- that's funner for me.
Warm rregards from sunny Manila,
Just Having Fun
Your emphasis on timing is right on and I do think today is an opportune time-- at leaset for the Standing Liberty Quarters. Several collectors are putting together quality sets and the general tone of the numismatic market is strong.
But a year of advertising is too long. It's like waiting 3 weeks for the SuperBowl. My interest begins to wane. And besides, a year from now, the general tone of the numis market may be very different.
Sincerely,
Just Having Fun
Dear Trade Dollar Nut:
I'm not sure I agree with you. Do you look back on pictures of your old sweetie pies? Not me. I have them but they're buried away and in practice I never go back to look at them.
I'd be much more interested in getting neato pictures of the coins I would have remaining. A friend of mine out here in Manila bought a good camera and has been taking great pictures of his own coins for posting on eBay. But it's a painstaking process.
What are True View images, and how would I get 'em for the surviving coins?
Warm regards,
Just Having Fun
Dear JPKinla: Amen!
Just Having Fun
That 1954-S IS indeed spectacular, but I have a number of other fascinating Jefferson's including a 1943-D in MS-68 FUll Steps from Mr. Wondercoin's son, Justin, that I think may be the most beautiful Jefferson in existence. The Jeffs were an interesting coin to collect. The full steps made it quite a fun challenge.
But I don't think I'm going to wait for a few years. I'll either do it, or let my family do it when I go to that great third party grading service in the sky.
Warm regards,
Just Having Fun
Hi there, Rainbow Roosies:
I have some dazzlers there, not just the pop tops but some gorgeous toners as well, and lots of gorgeous duplicates that are great toners too. If you're serious about buying the whole kit and kaboodle, contact Mr. Wondercoin. I won't dump 'em but I'm not unwilling to sell 'em.
Warm regards from Manila,
Just Having Fun
<< <i>"Before you sell, be sure to get True View images done of your set[s]. That way you can look back upon your coins at your leisure...."
Dear Trade Dollar Nut:
I'm not sure I agree with you. Do you look back on pictures of your old sweetie pies? Not me. I have them but they're buried away and in practice I never go back to look at them.
I'd be much more interested in getting neato pictures of the coins I would have remaining. A friend of mine out here in Manila bought a good camera and has been taking great pictures of his own coins for posting on eBay. But it's a painstaking process.
What are True View images, and how would I get 'em for the surviving coins?
Warm regards,
Just Having Fun >>
Yes, I do. I had my proof set imaged before I sold it. I'm happy I have the images for the coins I've sold and the coins I've kept. In fact, it would be easier for me to sell my sets now that I have high quality images of all the coins. Like you, they reside in the vault ... sometimes I think 'why own the coins when the images are all that matters'.
-----
By the way--If Legend really does start a biyearly major auction, I bet you can get the ultimate in photos, publicity, and other things to your liking, just to anchor such a event!! Just an idea.
<< <i>Dear Lincoln's Rule:
That 1954-S IS indeed spectacular, but I have a number of other fascinating Jefferson's including a 1943-D in MS-68 FUll Steps from Mr. Wondercoin's son, Justin, that I think may be the most beautiful Jefferson in existence. The Jeffs were an interesting coin to collect. The full steps made it quite a fun challenge.
But I don't think I'm going to wait for a few years. I'll either do it, or let my family do it when I go to that great third party grading service in the sky.
Warm regards,
Just Having Fun >>
Hi JHF
In regards to the 1954-S, when this coin was first submitted raw it was graded MS65 but did not receive the FS designation. Al Rosen, Mr Mint had the coin graded a second time and as I was told he submitted a letter along with it. This second time around the coin finally received a MS65FS grade. I have personally seen this coin raw and I'm baffled on how this coin received such a lofty MS67FS grade. You once said in another thread that you thought the coin was marginal for a MS67 grade and you alluded to another 1954-S having a shot at MS66FS. But now your saying the coin is spectacular. If you believe the coin is a point or two overgraded why not have it downgraded to it's respectful grade. For a MS67 coin, it must be fully struck, lustrous or with a combination of luster and toning, superb eye appeal with very markfree surfaces.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
How could it - didn't PCGS started using the designation years later? Do any PCGS "rattler" holders have "FS" on them?
And, the 1954(s) Jeff in MS67FS is "spectacular", even if some might suggest the coin should have graded a point lower (where it would still be pop 1/0 even at a grade point lower). But, I agree Justin's monster toned MS68FS Jeff is among my favorite coins in the set, although the 1955(d) MS66FS is quite remarkable (ex: Steve Pierce) as is the 1943(p) MS68FS (to name just a couple coins).
IMHO, the 1960(d) nickel was enough "downgrading" for the year 2006 - I think most would agree.
Wondercoin
Dear Elwood:
Bill Gates I ain't. A two million dollar asset doing nothing, supplying no joy or pleasure for me, is an asset that could be put to more productive use.
Dear Bochiman: Time flies, and unfortunately I don't think I have enough of it left to take a few years to make a decision.
Best wishes,
Just Having Fun
I love hearing that you're upgrading your Jeffs laterally, i.e., without a change in number. The problem I have with the Jeffersons is figuring out what's an upgrade. A beautfiully toned 65 3 steps; a 66 blast white 5.0 steps or a 66 golden 5.75 steps. That's why I end up with so many duplicates and triplicates.
I'm sure you've wrestled with the same issues over and over again.
Well, if I do put my Jefferson's up, you should have fun. I'd be delighted if a thoughtful collector like you picked up the key coins.
Warm regards,
Just Having Fun
Thank you! Man of Coins. You had a great set and I'm delighted to hear the "no regrets." And speaking of the "rare numeric upgrade" I had an SLQ numeric upgrade offered to me for (writing from memory) something like $303,000. We were so far apart, I didn't even ask the dealer representing me to make a counteroffer.
And I'm glad you've found your new niche already ... the gorgeous toners. Let's hope they end up as satisfying to you as the elephant coins are ending up for me.
Warm regards,
Just Having Fun
Bruce Scher brought up a valid consideration, when selling a complete series, but still wanting to treasure one or more of the keys/pq coins.
If I could do it again, I would keep the 1885 lib nickel in 67. The set still had a MS 65. And the 67 was one irreplaceable coin.
I did keep 2 Barber half proofs in 68--I just coudn't part with them.
And when I sell the MS Barber halves (maybe in about 5 years), I plan on saving the 92-O micro o from the Eliasberg collection.
So for now, I too am looking for unusual rarities, without even contemplating a complete set of anything.
I do not see you ever parting with the finest shield nickel in proof. And there are several more that are too dear to let go. That should not prevent a sale of the series that is finished.
Your post raises some of the same issues we discussed the last time I was stateside. I'm not worried about the Standing Liberty Quarters. They're classic coins, widely revered, and maybe I'm hopelessly naive, but I couldn't imagine seeing those coins going begging.
Surely, there are a handful of ardent collectors and dozens of dealers who would step up to the plate and buy some of those super gems. And I think more than one or two would mortage their homes and wives to get a swipe at 'em.
And the SLQ's bring back fond memories. I remember the time when you first discovered that I collected the SLQ's seriously, and discussed what I had over the phone with a mutual friend. That was an interesting starting point, wasn't it?
Warm regards,
Just Having Fun
Thanks for your kind words. When you reach the top in a series, one does seem to get bored.
But changing subjects, who is "phil" and what is so special about his "true view" coin photos?
Warm regards,
Just Having Fun
I'm sorry. I had just assumed you knew that TrueView was a photography service that PCGS provides. Phil Arnold is a very accessible guy via email and PM and can answer any questions that you might have about photographing your sets (I will be more than happy to provide you with his PM address if you PM me). He personally emailed me several photos of proof coins that he has shot...however you can find many gorgeous examples right here on PCGS's website (click on the links below):
JHF - CLICK HERE TO SEE TRUEVIEW IMAGES FROM PCGS
CLICK HERE FOR MORE GENERAL INFO ABOUT THE TRUEVIEW SERVICE
There are many people around here that are not fans of the TrueView service for whatever reason. I just happen to be a HUGE fan of it because I have spent the last three years trying to shoot copper (mostly lincolns) and I truly appreicate how phenomenal his skills are. Many people will agree with me that copper coins are the toughest to shoot. Lighting is a b*tch when it comes to copper and Phil seems to have it mastered. And, by the way, I have been pushing for a bulk discount for having sets done but PCGS has been non-responsive on the topic.
The only other caviat here is that some people are nervous about sending their sets across the country in the mail to have them done. I'll admit, I would be nervous as hell sending my coins across the country. If I ever decide to do it, I would drop them with PCGS at the Baltimore show and let them handle the transportation!
JHF: That it was. And, bear in mind that "no action is action". Simply because you had no interest whatsover in considering a "$300,000+" SLQ upgrade to your collection doesn't mean you can't tuck away your world class collection and see how you feel about it down the road. Kind of like a "separation" period as opposed to a complete divorce. Wondercoin.
War set with images.
If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
I must say I admire each and every set you have built. Every set is outstanding in its own merits. Being a Jefferson man, I have always enjoyed watching from the sidelines, salivating over the one of a kinds, sharing some hard to find varities with the registry guys (sold and then bought back quite a few) and just standing in awe at some high grade dates/pieces that have surfaced since the registry.
I will offer an opinion here, but its deffinatley biased. Sell the Full Step collection, as I am finally in a position where I can and will compete in the arena of your choice for some of them babies
Unbiased opinion would be, do what your heart tells you. I have always had this imperfection of charector that has caused me to share the few rarities or hard to finds I do come across with other collectors here trying to accomplish bringing a set together, that will hopefully "bring tears to ones eyes".
JHF, your deffinately "one of a kind" set builder/coin lover, and judging from your accomplishments, will do what you feel best, and will in the end, I believe the "right choice"
two words : you rock
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
Before I do so, I thought wondercoin's commentary of the Washington quarter series pricing was one of the finest commentary I have ever seen about a registry set; historical and forecating wise. I suggest you publish such commentary as often as possible including in Coin World.
JHF: Boredom?? What is boredom? You are looking at it all wrong! While I am not an advocate of doing complete sets, why did you do it in the first place? The fun of the hunt? The pychosis of persevering and completing something in a manic/obsessive way? Or simply the thrill of accomplishment? Or a good buy at the time which means a form of investment?
Some additional hard and pointed questions to ask (I apologize if they seem too harsh!):
1. Just because it sits in a vault, that is a bad thing?
2. Fine wine that sits in a vault and being kept well preserved and protected and getting rarer and more prized by the year; that is a bad thing? The longer the set sits in your vault, the more "fresh" the coins will be when they finally come out of hiding because they have sat away from the prying eyes of those that hunger for your coins for a long time and now is available to the next group of collectors that have never even seen your coins! No?
3. What exactly is boring here? You expect as Stewart said to be with the set every night? Give the set a rest does not have to mean a sale?
Even nightly amourous activity and gambling winnings can get boring if it is EVERY NIGHT?
4. What the heck, if you can learn to read and write Thai, you can learn to read up some more and write about the coins you own and do some real research on them?
5. You said <<<<<Bill Gates I ain't. A two million dollar asset doing nothing, supplying no joy or pleasure for me, is an asset that could be put to more productive use.>>>> So my question that follows is why the heck did you buy those coins in the first place??? Didn't you think of that BEFORE you bought the coins???
6. You also said, <<<<<Time flies, and unfortunately I don't think I have enough of it left to take a few years to make a decision.>>>> So the question that follows is why bother to continue to collect (the Thai elephant coinage) and enjoy the hobby when you feel you already have one foot in the grave???
7. You also said, <<<<< As for gold, I love the coins but I don't think I'll ever build another date set where all the coins look the same. A date set of off metal Jeffersons or Washington Quarters -- where each coin looks very different from the next -- that's funner for me.>>>>>>I don't get it. All of the SLQ and Jeffersons look the same to you???? You can't add toners and off metal coins to dress up your set even if they are not in the registry set itself? What about a complete grading set of the type I and type II SLQ's?
8. I do agree with scher, saintguru and TahoeDale; if you do sell the SLQ's and Jefferson nickels, why not keep the best one or two irreplaceable coins "forever" by placing a HUGE and insane reserve price on it meaning that you really want to keep it anyway?? saintguru sold part of his set yet he still is "engaged" in what he loves doing. He gave up nothing irreplaceable yet has the freedom $$ wise to upgrade the better coins or spoil his daughter even more.
9. I also agree with pontiacinf. he is the "original gatekeeper" of thar wonderful 1894 SF Mint plaque shown at the bottom of my post. He sold it to me with great reluctness because he knew my heart was in it. He knows about the "heart" factor. Money should not be a consideration unless it is just an investment to you.
So what does your heart tell you??
Whew!!! That was hard work!
On the other hand, you can just forget about selling and just adopt me!
<< <i>"In regards to the 1954-S, when this coin was first submitted raw it was graded MS65 but did not receive the FS designation"
How could it - didn't PCGS started using the designation years later? Do any PCGS "rattler" holders have "FS" on them?
And, the 1954(s) Jeff in MS67FS is "spectacular", even if some might suggest the coin should have graded a point lower (where it would still be pop 1/0 even at a grade point lower). But, I agree Justin's monster toned MS68FS Jeff is among my favorite coins in the set, although the 1955(d) MS66FS is quite remarkable (ex: Steve Pierce) as is the 1943(p) MS68FS (to name just a couple coins).
IMHO, the 1960(d) nickel was enough "downgrading" for the year 2006 - I think most would agree.
Wondercoin >>
Ok Mitch,
I know that I'm a big enough man to admit when I am wrong. In this case, the coin was not raw and may have been in one of those old rattlers. Perhaps I've seen too many coins to remember. But this does not change the question on how a coin moves from a non-FS MS65 to a MS67FS holder. Being always the curious with these nickels, I sent off an email to one of the pre-owners of this coin and he called me back to say the same, the coin was extra-ordinary. No marks to speak of, near prooflike fields and it sports a very strong strike. I confronted the first owner, Jim Ragsdale, with the same question awhile back and he basically claimed the same thing that it was a very nice coin for a 1954-S. I just don't recall this coin as spectacular in the sense that it would ever max out at MS67, it just didn't stand out in my mind as such. PCGS has offered 3 contrasting opinions about this coin giving it 3 marketing values. This is what doesn't make any sense. But you and JHF have manage to add coins and upgrades on 31 of the 71 coins from the Mr Mint collection in 28 months. I don't believe anyone has done more then a dozen upgrades to his collection in that amount of time. But like you said in another post, today collectors are more picky about the strike and quality of coin then they were yesterday. So what ever slabs you got these coins in, each coin will need to stand up on it's own merits. Collectors are biddiing more on quality these days than they did 3 years ago. It would be interesting to see how those coins would do on today's market. Personally, I wouldn't sell the set as I don't believe some of the coins would meet their true values. Until someone can lay out the entire history behind this series to open up those minds on just how rare a few of these coins really are, I just don't see $50,000 or $100,000 coins coming from this series any time soon. Before that could happen, this series really needs to mature some more. And all we know what quality of coins will need to surface to fit that bill.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
"But you and JHF have manage to add coins and upgrades on 31 of the 71 coins from the Mr Mint collection in 28 months."
Leo: On the first point, I do not think there really is too much debate here that a first generation "rattler" MS65 (with no question FS even though PCGS did not recognize FS back then) could easily move to an MS66FS (just read what you said above). And, it is not all that uncommon for these rattler coins to, at times, move up (2) points. Was I surprised as you that this particular coin ended up in an MS67FS holder - absolutely. This coin is to the Jefferson series as the "1926(s) Buffalo is to the Buffalo series". If a "killer" rattler 1926(s) Buffalo appeared in a PCGS-MS65 holder and ended up in a PCGS-MS67 holder, I would be equally surprised. So, you have no argument out of me on this point.
Regarding the (31) upgrades/improvements in (28) months - that's what happens when you virtually always outbid everyone else at auction for the cool coins and "pay up" for the nice freshly made coins. But, you also reach a point in collecting this or any other series, where all the "low hanging fruit" has been picked and upgrades/improvements dwindle to a mere trickle. It is at that point where collectors tend to fork off - some tuck the sets away for years, while others elect to sell them off pleased that they have successfully "climbed the mountain".
Wondercoin
Dear Scher:
I think you did get top dollar for your coins partially because they were extraordinary coins and partially because your sale was an "event." It attracted a lot of attention, and deservedly so.
I sold my own three cent nickel collection to help finance the purchase of an 1894-S and I've had withdrawal symptoms like you. But I got over it and frankly, I'd rather have the single dime than my entire 3CN collection.
I'm thinking about your advice on photographing them, but doesn't it scare you to have someone knock an MS 67 out of a slab, pick it up, photograph it, and than pack it back into another slab. Don't some coins get finger prints on them from the in and out? I think I'd rather shoot the coins in the holder.
Warm regards,
Just Having Fun
Elephant coins are a ton of fun (if you'll forgive the pun) to collect. They show up beautifully on coins. I think it's because they're so distinctive: tusks, trunk, huge legs, and giant ears. And when there's a person involved to, the perspective shows the elephant nicely.
The fact that Krause lists so many of them as el cheapo's makes it so much the better. I'd certainly rather spend $100 on an interesting coin that's a one-of-a-kinder for me than $20,000 for a pop-top Jefferson that's one of 83 other coins looking almost identical.
Warm regards,
Just Having Fun
I don't mind the ultra-modern Jeffersons. I just don't think they belong in the same series. They're an entirely different design.
And if and when I do sell, I'll certainly engage an experienced marketeer to handle the sale for me. Some people love to cut out the middle man and "save" the money.
I LOVE the middle man and and delighted to let them handle all the problems for me. You know, even if I got less by going through a middle-man than I could have gotten on my own, I'm happy with it, because of all the time it saves me. But the one time I did put up a significant (7 figure) group of coins to sell, I'm convinced that the two marketeers I used (Warren Mills and Mitch Spivack) ended up getting me more money than I would have gotten on my own, even after their cut, which was substantial.
Warm regards to you for leading the way!
Just Having Fun
Speaking of women. Some of us play with a deck of one card, others with a decks of four or five cards. My guess is that if you have a deck with more than one card in it, and you get tired of playing one of the cards, it's a lot easier to set that card aside than if your deck only has one card in it.
And no I haven't played with sapphires or rubies. For many years, I had a client who was a diamond merchant. They were just about as beautiful and tempting as a beautiful young woman -- and they were just as complicated as well. I'm sure sapphires and rubies are just as beautiful (or more so), and just as puzzling. Too complicated for me.
Warm regards,
Just Havin Fun
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
The registry rules change was giving added weight to DCAM and CAM coins, giving my five Proof 70's lower ranks than PR69DCAMs. To this day, I beleive the rules change was not fair and wrong, because I beleive PR70 coins are more desirable than 69DCAMs. This rule change turned me "off" to collecting this series and other series where similar ranking "problems" can occur. I do not object to special weightings because of "rarity."
It was an economic decision when I sold my #1 ranked set... I knew as a #1 set it was worth more than a set that would be ranked second or third or fourth.
Remember, that you are not married to your coins... and in my case, I owned that proof washington registry set for about three years, which was shorter than marriage number 1, about equal to marriage number 2, and longer than marriage number 3 (which is ongoing and stands a good chance of lasting longer than the Washington set).
cheers, Alan Mendelson
www.AlanBestBuys.com
www.VegasBestBuys.com