2007 Krause price changes
cladking
Posts: 28,701 ✭✭✭✭✭
Most of the price changes from the 2005 edition are fairly subdued. In the modern
cu/ ni coins there are substantial numbers of changes in the 10 to 50% range. Of course
this primarily affects the uncs.
There are some standouts however which include:
early Belgium 5F (still greatly underpriced and underappreciated)
Brunei (much of this stuff is pretty tough)
older Czeckoslovakia (selected dates) (some of these are very common so be careful)
Greece. Many dramatic increases especially in the older cu/ ni. The '59 2D went from $35 to $200. ($10 in '86)
Indonesia '73 100 Rupiah tripled to $3. This one isn't easy. Indonesia is very underappreciated largly because many are exceedingly common.
Japan 5, 10 and 50 Y early dates are up. These are still listed far too low.
S Korea 10, 50 and 100 won coins are now listed sharply higher. (I'd like to believe the pricing since I have a lot of these but it seems a little too high.
Romania ('50-'63)
Russia (selected dates) There will be more
Swiss these are still underpriced. Demand is building and could go far higher
My early reaction is favorable but there are still huge numbers of prices that need
dramatic readjustment higher. They also need to lower some prices. Primarily this
applies to older silver but there are later coins in all metals that could stand some-
what lower prices. There are some countries that are valued too high and some too
low.
At the rate they're fixing the problems they will get it done but may take fifty years.
cu/ ni coins there are substantial numbers of changes in the 10 to 50% range. Of course
this primarily affects the uncs.
There are some standouts however which include:
early Belgium 5F (still greatly underpriced and underappreciated)
Brunei (much of this stuff is pretty tough)
older Czeckoslovakia (selected dates) (some of these are very common so be careful)
Greece. Many dramatic increases especially in the older cu/ ni. The '59 2D went from $35 to $200. ($10 in '86)
Indonesia '73 100 Rupiah tripled to $3. This one isn't easy. Indonesia is very underappreciated largly because many are exceedingly common.
Japan 5, 10 and 50 Y early dates are up. These are still listed far too low.
S Korea 10, 50 and 100 won coins are now listed sharply higher. (I'd like to believe the pricing since I have a lot of these but it seems a little too high.
Romania ('50-'63)
Russia (selected dates) There will be more
Swiss these are still underpriced. Demand is building and could go far higher
My early reaction is favorable but there are still huge numbers of prices that need
dramatic readjustment higher. They also need to lower some prices. Primarily this
applies to older silver but there are later coins in all metals that could stand some-
what lower prices. There are some countries that are valued too high and some too
low.
At the rate they're fixing the problems they will get it done but may take fifty years.
Tempus fugit.
0
Comments
Belgium: worst selling country in the entire world, any price increases are laughable.
Brunei: don't know.
Czech is dead, the old prices were close to right.
Post war Greece has peaked, sale prices are down. True selling price for gem uncs is between the older UNC and BU prices.
Indonesia: don't know.
Japan: Post war stuff has been hit or miss. Early stuff (except the horde 10 sens) has been strong.
South Korea: don't know
Romania: Dead, especially post war stuff.
Russia: Old Krause stupidly low. The common WWI stuff looks to have peaked but the older stuff remains very strong.
Swiss: Old Krause ranged from just right to a bit high.
Other observations on commonly collected countries (2005 edition prices):
France: A bit low on Napoleon III, a bit high on 3rd Republic & later.
Germany: Stupid high on post war West Germany. High on early better dates. About right on common stuff.
Mexico: About right on Key dates.
Borneo: Way low.
Italy: Cooled enough that prices are about right.
Ireland: Hit or miss.
Netherlands: Stupidly high - almost as bad as Belgium.
<< <i>My observations on the above:
Belgium: worst selling country in the entire world, any price increases are laughable.
Brunei: don't know.
Czech is dead, the old prices were close to right.
Post war Greece has peaked, sale prices are down. True selling price for gem uncs is between the older UNC and BU prices.
Indonesia: don't know.
Japan: Post war stuff has been hit or miss. Early stuff (except the horde 10 sens) has been strong.
South Korea: don't know
Romania: Dead, especially post war stuff.
Russia: Old Krause stupidly low. The common WWI stuff looks to have peaked but the older stuff remains very strong.
Swiss: Old Krause ranged from just right to a bit high.
Other observations on commonly collected countries (2005 edition prices):
France: A bit low on Napoleon III, a bit high on 3rd Republic & later.
Germany: Stupid high on post war West Germany. High on early better dates. About right on common stuff.
Mexico: About right on Key dates.
Borneo: Way low.
Italy: Cooled enough that prices are about right.
Ireland: Hit or miss.
Netherlands: Stupidly high - almost as bad as Belgium. >>
You're most probably right when looking at pricing as a function of demand but
I'm looking at it much more from a supply standpoint. Belgium may be dead in the
water but if you want to pick up nice cu/ ni 1 and 5 F at any price you'll find it impossible.
Seriously, most dealers can't be bothered piecing out stuff like that. Those coins are around but are mostly found in big lots & wholesale deals.
<< <i>Even if there's only one Belgium 1F extant they still outnumber the collectors for them.
Seriously, most dealers can't be bothered piecing out stuff like that. Those coins are around but are mostly found in big lots & wholesale deals. >>
You may well be right here as well but I've been betting for many years that you aren't.
People always assume that the 50c and dollar coins are available in quantity. Even a casual
observer will see huge quantities of many of this type of coin trade hands. There are even
companies which specialize in trading these in ten thousand coin lot and more. Educational
Coin Company used to advertise that they had many millions of coins in stock and they sold
them for as liittle as a few cents each. Of course these were almost always uncs. Understand-
ably low priced coins weren't getting much respect. But it's actually relatively few coins that
exist in hordes like this. The Indonesian 50 Rupiah coin may be available by the truck load but
the 100 R that listed for the same price was far more difficult. In some cases it's more than
just the inability to find it by the truckload but the fact that you can't find even a single specimen.
I've been looking for the Belgium ('49 & later) 1 and 5 F since the mid '70's. I'd love to find quan-
tities of these but for the main part I'm lucky to find a single example. There are a few dates I've
never found in unc. Yes, it's entirely possible that hordes of this very coin have traded in the past
and someone is sitting on vast numbers of them. But it's more likely that my experience is normal
and the coins and the demand are extremely limited.
There are lots of world and US coins like this made since WWII that everyone believes to be common
but can't be found. There probably will be some hordes of some of them appear. Thirty years ago
who would have believed a coin like the 1957 Greek 1D would be listed at $50 in XF. This coin was
considered impossibly common and uncs were available for a dollar or two. Well... they were supposed
to be a dollar or two but you couldn't find them. If you wanted this coin there wasn't much option but
to pull it out of poundage and these were invariably well worn. We'll no doubt see a lot more of this
sort of thing as a little bit of demand develops for all the coins from the 20th century.
<< <i>Thirty years ago who would have believed a coin like the 1957 Greek 1D would be listed at $50 in XF. This coin was
considered impossibly common and uncs were available for a dollar or two. Well... they were supposed
to be a dollar or two but you couldn't find them. If you wanted this coin there wasn't much option but
to pull it out of poundage and these were invariably well worn. We'll no doubt see a lot more of this
sort of thing as a little bit of demand develops for all the coins from the 20th century. >>
Interesting you mention that particular coin. These days certified choice UNC examples sell for about $80. I actually made several in MS63-64 when they were "impossible to find." The first few brought very nice prices for me. However, after seeing how well those sold everyone and their brothers went out and looked for them. Enough others were came to light that the prices came way, way down. I'll bet higher prices would flush out most (probably not all) of these $1-2 catalog coins that you just can't find.
Currently I have hundreds and hundreds of mint state coins bought in bulk lots for 50c a piece. They came from dealers who didn't find it worth their time to work them into inventory. I pulled out all the "shot 68" coins and better selling countries to sell, the rest went into a closet. Now, if prices climb enough for something like Belgian francs I may be motivatated enough to dig around for some. However, for a buck they can sit there until the end of time for all I care.
I guess the point is until demand rises enough for people to look for them you'll never really how rare they are. I'll bet for every true rarity that emerges hundres of hard to find coins will turn out to be common. On the bright side, for those that like an inexpensive challenge there are many of them out there in the realm of world coins.
BTW, I just remembered that Israel actually does sell worse than Belgium.
1883 or 1911. It would hardly be surprising if there are more of these older coins in existence than
the 1957. As time goes on the demand for the older coins will ebb and flow but the demand for the
later one is likely to just keep inching up for generations.
Sure the higher prices have brought coins out of storage and even higher prices may bring a few more,
but it won't bring stuff out of storage that doesn't exist. If this material did exist then you'd see it on
the market and you don't.
Take BU clad quarter rolls for example. Most people just assume these are extremely common because
even today most are priced at only double face or less. Knowledgeable people who have been in the
hobby for decades will tell you there are lots of them and they've personally seen thousands. They say
that if the price goes up they'll come out of the woodwork and cause the price to drop. First off they rea-
lly have seen lots of rolls but most are dated 1976 and a few are 1965. Most of the rest are '70-D, '74,
'77-D etc. Of these many rolls they've seen large percentages have been destroyed anyway. Variety
collectors search the rolls and will pull out better conditions and varieties and spend everything else.
So what actually existed is a small supply where there was almost no collector interest and a huge at-
trition. Anyone who gets to look at a few collector's estates knows that these coins simply don't exist.
When people die their collection comes on the market and you simply never see BU rolls of clad or much
of any sort of clad in these collections.
Sure it's likely true that BU rolls would come out of the woodwork if the price increases but the price in-
crease would be fueled by a mere handful of collectors who simply couldn't locate the coins they want.
The price would go down as these rolls were dug out of storage. But there is no dept to the number
of coins in storage and nothing to keep the price from climbing again as the small handful of collectors
is augmented by another small handful.
I don't believe the move in moderns is over, I don't believe it is even well joined yet. I believe we'll see
much higher prices for the '57 1D as well.
These coins were quite simply impossible to find in BU 3-4 years ago, more difficult than the 1868-1883 coins, it's a very immature market yet.
James, I'll buy all your MS64+ 1959 2Ds at $250,cause I'm in one of those rare generous moods, I suggest that you jump on my offer.
myEbay
DPOTD 3
Swiss these are still underpriced. Demand is building and could go far higher
Underpriced is an understatement, especially for some specific dates, besides Switzerland really jumps in 67 and 68 grades, while a 63 is considered almost trash. The eagerly awaited registry set,by many collectors, will be a deciding factor in the readjustment of these prices, until then, buyers are very happy with things as they are.
myEbay
DPOTD 3
<< <i>Swiss these are still underpriced. Demand is building and could go far higher
Underpriced is an understatement, especially for some specific dates, besides Switzerland really jumps in 67 and 68 grades, while a 63 is considered almost trash. The eagerly awaited registry set,by many collectors, will be a deciding factor in the readjustment of these prices, until then, buyers are very happy with things as they are.
Actually, most Swiss dates below strict MS65 (PCGS) receive little notice (at least from 1/2 franc down, and post WWII). Buy all the strictly graded MS66s and up you can find.....even moreso, 67/68 or better, especially pre WWII.
CK, what price does Krause currently have on that infamously ill-priced Swiss 1911 1 franc proof (specimen)?
<< <i> Buy all the strictly graded MS66s and up you can find.....even moreso, 67/68 or better, especially pre WWII. >>
I do.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
Let's be fair here, it's a common secret that while business strikes are heavily underpriced, specimens are equally overpriced, and I'm not necessarilly referring to 1911. Mac, your specific interest and seemingly innocent question makes me wonder .....
myEbay
DPOTD 3
<< <i>
CK, what price does Krause currently have on that infamously ill-priced Swiss 1911 1 franc proof (specimen)? >>
At the risk of stepping into something, the 2007 Krause lists the '11 1F specimen at $900.
1968 and 1969 Swiss is tough in high grade. In fact they are a little tough
even in no question unc. The others tend to be blazing gems and are pro-
bably from mint sets for the main part. The '68 and '69 coins were probably
carried home by tourists and they usually have a light rub. Mintages were
fairly high for these dates so the mint may have had production constraints
which adversely affected quality as well. I've been very lucky with finding the
Swiss coinage and have put more effort into them than most others.
The only Greek coin I never found in no question unc was the '57 1D. I had
assumed it was the toughest. I've got a few of the '59 2D and one is a star-
tling gem.
There are many coins which I've sought for decades that never turned up.
Even corresponding with coin traders in that country has usually proved un-
fruitful. I was able to trade for a few cu/ ni Indian coins and have landed a
few from Great Britain but generally it would appear that if the coins aren't
available here then they aren't available in their home countries either. This
is especially true for Latin American and South American coins.
mintmark are far easier than the no mint mark coins. This goes double in unc.
Perhaps these will be prove to be quite scarce in unc. Or even VF.
Anyone remember where these were made?
And back when I was first swappin' with you, Sam, I found three or four blazing, full-red BU examples in that killer bulk lot I sent you the Dutch coins from. That was in what, '92 or '93? Back then those 1940 pennies cataloged for eight bucks apiece, if I remember correctly.
<< <i>Germany: Stupid high on post war West Germany. >>
Particularly for such dull designs.
<< <i>BTW, I just remembered that Israel actually does sell worse than Belgium. >>
Ah, yes. Another country that favors turd-ugly modernistic designs. Plus uses its own alphabet AND calendar, so attributing and dating your turd-ugly modern coins takes a little longer.
don't remember the British pennies. While I have very little wrapped up in these it makes
me a little sick to see how well many of the coins I traded off have done. These were
mostly nice XF world silver from the early 20th or late 19th centuries. I knew they were
good coins but you can't keep everything and, of course, no one much wanted the junk.
I had one trading partner out west who would trade me the weight of my coins in silver
plus double their catalog value in unc modern junk. He had great taste and actually did
fairly well since the coins he liked have done well over the years. At least his are farly
easy to sell.
I'm almost done with rounding everything up to put into proper storage and have found
about $6,000 in coins (catalog value) and my largest cost was probably all the postage
burnt up moving stuff around.
I don't have a lot of respect for moderns (in most cases) unless they are choice or gem.
The '40 pennies must have been traded off since I don't remember them.