The Official 33-34 Goudey Baseball Threads
cravetopps
Posts: 1,134
Anyone know why there are virtually no Goudey threads? Maybe I am looking in the wrong place?
Let's make this the official thread!
Let's make this the official thread!
Mark B.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
0
Comments
I spent a lot of time on the set and it was always my favorite. Be patient and pounce when you get a no reserve auction. Major dealers' buy it now prices are out of kilter. The 239/240 card set is large enough to gain a real sense of achievement without being too bulky.
The commons you should beware of are:
Critz #3 - Not as rare as once thought
Pipgras
Bengough in anything above PSA 4
Andy Cohen
Tommy Thevenow
Ed Brandt
George Blaeholder - Not as tough as the others
And the other low numbers below 53 Ruth yellow.
You have to decide whether you care if there's bleeding to the back of the card. I don't think it effects grading unless it's major, but some guys really don't like it. Centering wil always be an issue. Don't buy raw unless you really know the dealer. PSA is very careful with bell curve on this set.
Last, even if it takes a few years, you'll have a real keepsake. Along with t-206 and 1952 Topps, this set will always be in demand and you'll join a circle of tough, but cool collectors. Trading is also possible on the Set Registry, but it's competitive so don't be sensitive if you get some snubs.
If you have any other questions, I'd be happy to answer.
Best,
JLC
"I have one word for you, Ben... Spastics. Got it? Good. Enough said."
Goudey Gum
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
sounds like you know your stuff. also sounds like you own a lajoie.
care to share a pic if indeed you do?
I'd enjoy seeing it.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
Unfortunately, this is a case of lending advice after going about it backwards. I never purchased the Lajoie. I finished the set without it and I've regretted it. I had so many chances over the years, but I always thought I'd pick one up at the end. Unfortunately, the price tripled during the period and I couldn't pull the trigger after the huge gain. Thus, I really believe it's the first card to pick up. The other cards all come up for sale. They're not cheap, but there's not the same type of limited supply.
A good thing for all serious collectors to remember is the top, top cards are centerpieces on their own whether or not you pursue the set. They're expensive, but there's a slim chance of not seeing the card go up in price. The demand always outweighs the supply.
The cards I speak of are all well-known -
1916 Sporting News Ruth
1933 Delong Gehrig
1933/34 Goudey Lajoie
1952 Topps Mantle
1952 Topps Mathews
1948 Leaf Paige
1954 Wilson Williams
1959 Morrell Koufax (If you can find one)
1968 3-D Clemente
Obviously, there are other important cards including the Honus Wagner which I left off because I don't want to list 100,000 plus cards. However, through many years of collecting, the above cards have a certain magic that makes them special. If I started collecting today knowing what I've learned over many years, I'd simply go after that short list of cards and put them away. I went off in a thousand directions. I did do a few thing right, but the hobby really is built on the cards above.
But, I'll never regret collecting the Goudey set. It's a set many years ahead of its time and the HOFers make it the bible for baseball post-tobacco card days. I never identified with the Cap Ansons and Willie Keelers. The Goudey era represented a transformation into the game we know today. Of course, this is all my personal take and there are no wrong ways to build a collection. However, it never hurts to hear from someone who has traveled a path you might embark on.
Best,
JLC
"I have one word for you, Ben... Spastics. Got it? Good. Enough said."
Anyway, I'll post some scans when I receive the cards. I bought them all from one dealer, one being a Gerald Walker PSA 8....pop 9.
Great stuff, JLC. Thanks!
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
Like I said, there's no right way to go about it. The whole purpose is to enjoy yourself. You've selected great sets to go after. I once started on the 1952 Topps set, but it nearly killed me about half way through. That set stands up against any set.
The 1934 Goudey set is a really good choice. It's underrated and undervalued. Plus, it won't take half your lifetime to finish and you can build a decent set rating PSA 7 or above without eating at the Salvation Army soup kitchen. The 1934 Greenberg, Foxx and separate Gehrig poses make it awesome. The #37 Gehrig is still the best card aesthetically speaking of the great man.
1971 is torture, but I'm sure you know what you're getting into with the black backgrounds and chipping. I think this might be tougher than many sets in the 50's.
In general, all collectors should have a fall-back set because cards will dry up from time to time so it's nice to move your concentration on another beloved set. All this takes money, but you would be surprised how much you can save by really doing your research and staying on top of dealer inventories. Most dealers will help you build a set and put aside cards for you if they happen upon them. The 1933 Goudey set is no different. There is no substitute for knowledge in this hobby. Those who do their homework are rewarded most frequently. Like craveking said, his hours were spent searching ebay. Ebay is a free market and, hence, a good indicator of true prices. I took a look at recent 1933 Goudey sales and saw a mixed bag of opportunities. Anytime you see Mickeysclubhouse - Mickey's cards win auctions, you know there are values to be had. A dealer will put a purchased Ebay card on his/her website for double what he/she paid. However, there are still some serious big boys buying cards. HOFers can get out of control and you must set a maximum price ahead of time unless you're too rich to care.
Also, if you snag a card you feel is borderline, don't forget you can send it in for review. However, crack it out and save the slab and paper printout in case the card comes back in a lower slab. There are bumps to be had depending on which grader you pull. However, I truly think PSA invisibly marks all cards of value with an invisible ink unseen by the visible eye so so they can reslab in the same holder. I don't want to sound like a 'grassy knoll nut', but i've had cards that should be PSA 7 come back in the same PSA 5 holder.
Finally, break the 1933 set down in 8 thirty card batches. I think five to seven years is a fair estimate on the time from inception to completion of this set. Knock down a batch or two a year. You'll get interim feelings of reward when you finish a segment instead of laboring through 240 cards.
Last, I don't want to sound like a know it all so this is not written in stone. There might be other successful strategies I missed because I'm no genius and everyone from my family to strangers in the street remind me of it every single day. Also, I'm not the ultimate maven on this issue. There are collectors with ten times my acumen. I don't know if they post, but I'd sure like to hear their strategies. What's nice about a mid-grade Goudey set is it not a vulgar display of wealth. It represents patience, networking and guts. PSA 8s are going to be out of 99.9% of people's leagues. Buying a PSA 8 common doesnt do much for your set value. You want to set a baseline and maximize the grades on your HOFers.
This is getting long so I'll let you all go. However, don't be afraid to drop me a question. I'm more than happy to help out someone building the 1933 Goudey set. People helped me during my collecting days and I think it's only fair I give the same courtesy back.
Best to all of you,
JLC
"I have one word for you, Ben... Spastics. Got it? Good. Enough said."
I am going to put all my energy into 34 Goudey and 52 Topps. I am fortunate to have the resources but on the other hand, I think your advice is that I am better served by having patience.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
A couple of '34 Albums
And a wrapper
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Thanks
David
I'd be curious to know what any Lajoie cards have sold for recently..........if any have sold recently....
David- for some reason I think there are 6 '33 wrappers, but I could be wrong. Mine is in average condition, it just benefits from good lighting
A few more wrappers-
'33 Sport Kings
'33 Goudey Baseball
'35 Goudey
'36 Goudey
A '38 Goudey from the last Mastro, not mine. It sold for 1017. plus the juice. There are 2 different ones in this set
And '41 Goudey
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
if I were to ever do such a set as the '33's..... which I am tempted to do.......
at some point I'd HAVE to have the lajoie card. I would not be able to even start any set unless I knew I'd be able to complete it.
I passed on a PSA 4 Lajoie 2 years ago- the price was really good and the seller was going to send it to me and I'd pay him 1K a month for 12 months. I passed because I didn't want to owe him money. Dumb, dumb move. A very similar card in the same condition sold for 24K plus the buyers premium last year. It's pretty much out of my reach now in any condition.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
-Ryan
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
I'd post some scans if it wasn't such a headache to do so on this board.
I have scans in my 1933 Goudey PSA 5 set and my 1934 Goudey set in the PSA Registry
Also, don't forget the 1933 World Wide Gum set and the 1934 World Wide Gum set. These are the Canadian versions. Very underrated, but for the most part, the front image is the same as the American version.
How long will it take before one of the major grading companies decide to grade wrappers?
If you don't consider Lajoie part of the '33 set, do you include #106 Durocher as part of the set?
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
<< <i> If you don't consider Lajoie part of the '33 set, do you include #106 Durocher as part of the set? >>
The #106 Durocher is an even freakier card than the Lajoie.
I'm not saying I don't consider Lajoie in the set, but I can see the rationale behind those that don't think it should be in the set. Obviously, price has something to do with it too...if the Lajoie was only a $500 card, everyone would probably get it to complete their set. But overall, I have no problem in a collector excluding it from his set and thinking it complete without it.
As for continued advice, 50% of building a major set is starting with the right approach. I learned the hard way, but there were some very intelligent collectors who helped me and saved me thousands of dollars and a large amount of time. There's some luck involved too and it runs in both directions so don't get discouraged.
Griffins' Lajoie situation is something every collector faces at one time or another. You're talking about a boatload of money for a single card. It's not easy to pull the trigger. I passed on a similarly priced Lajoie a few years ago and it still smarts. You're going to see 90% of Lajoies selling through auction houses. There are no bargains with Mastro and REA. They usually hit record prices auction after auction. Plus, you have to pay the buyer's fee which is a hefty sum. However, I'd rather have the Lajoie tucked away in any grade as opposed to 150 commons which will always be available. It is somewhat investment directed, but when you put your set away you'll want it to be complete. During the years it takes to make your set, you're going to see the Lajoie go up and up. I'm not Nostradamus, but I don't think the card will ever drop in value. Hence, the card you can now buy for 20K will be 40K when you try to make it the cherry on top of your sundae.
If this card is just too much money, then forget it and get on with building the set. There's no shame in that. Most of us don't have the cash to drop on a Lajoie. You can still end up with a real keepsake by completing the set with 239 cards. Four Ruths, two Gehrigs, two Foxxes, two Hubbells, two Hornsbys, Dizzy Dean, Moe Berg, Hack Wilson, Lefty Grove and Lefty Gomez, Big and Little Poison plus the Bengough and the low pops are a large enough headaches.
The last thing I want to mention is upgrading within the same grade. Inevitably, some cards will not look as good in person as they do in their scans. These will bother you if you focus on centering, corners or registration. You'll want your set to look uniform. One area that isn't spoken about is upgrading from a weak PSA 6 to a strong PSA 6. You can avoid this issue by following a few simple rules. Learn who PSA's favored sons are. Their cards are sitting in a slab one grade above what they should be. Many early cards from the Baker days starting with "0" can vary widely. Check these cards well and make sure you can send them back if they do not meet your standard. Last, remember that anything you send in that gets a PSA 6 is really a dealer PSA 7. Your strongest examples will be raw cards you come up with. You will be annoyed. You will kick the dog. You have to come to accept it or you can't be part of the hobby.
This topic is Verboden on these message boards, but I'm not here to criticize it or rant and rave. It's part of the game. Try and establish some relationship with a known PSA representative and they will review cards. Don't send a thousand cards. Pick a few at a time once of twice a year and include supporting examples from your other cards. With PSA you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. They are extremely strong right now. GAI and SGC cards do not cross. Thus, they've gone to total large submitter tactics - You submit big and advertise big, you get big grades. SGC is still okay for early tobacco and Pre-War stuff, but you are forced to buy PSA if you want to keep your dollars protected. There are slimebags cutting, dicing, slicing, ginzu-ing cards without a second thought. You need the PSA stamp of approval to make your commodity stand up.
More later...
JLC
"I have one word for you, Ben... Spastics. Got it? Good. Enough said."
BTW, were you the one looking for a Hires Test Mays a while back? If so shoot me a pm.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
And the registration card from the US copyright office, when the '33 set was registered:
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
let's see a Lajoie!!
Link
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
On another note - what are the chances that the winner of that auction - with only a feedback of 4, and no cards in his past purcahses - is not a legit buyer, but instead a shill bidder. I wonder if the winner is actually the owner of the card who consigned it to mm4cards and bid on it. If he knew about the previous 10K sale in the Mastro auction, he'd be tempted to bid 5K thinking someone would surely go higher....or that he didn't want to sell it at a 50% discount to the previous price.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
You should pm Tom Papa (GoSoxBoSox). He's got several high grade '34 Goudey sets, along with companion pieces, and has written a few articles for SMR.
Chris Stufflestreet is also an excellent writer with a deep knowledge of the hobby, especially the behind the scenes info with Goudey, Delong, Bowman, etc.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Thanks..yes I'm already in contact with Chris about some projects..just trying to find as many willing and able soldiers as I can.
Rich