How Many Collectors Out There...
Stone193
Posts: 24,437 ✭✭✭✭✭
at some time in their collecting endeavors thought they might want to open a shop?
I did for a bit around 1992 - I knew I had to retire from the Army within a few years and it looked like an "inviting" way to make a living.
Just imagine...good hours - ya open up - sell a few cards, supplies and what not...talk sports and sportscards with all the customers....
Sounds too good to be true? I guess it was.
Anyone else have the same (as my wife would say) "dumb" idea?
mike
I did for a bit around 1992 - I knew I had to retire from the Army within a few years and it looked like an "inviting" way to make a living.
Just imagine...good hours - ya open up - sell a few cards, supplies and what not...talk sports and sportscards with all the customers....
Sounds too good to be true? I guess it was.
Anyone else have the same (as my wife would say) "dumb" idea?
mike
Mike
0
Comments
yes, but I have always said that it would be possible only if I became wealthy enough be secure and live with all of the losses
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
My problem is that I CAN'T part with anything.
Hard to give up things that I purchase.
Parting is such sweet sorrow!
mike
I did open a shop. 1988. Right out of high school. It was a short lived venture, not enough $$$ and all I sold was new stuff. I live in a small(5000) town and most of my customers were 8. I did get a very expensive lesson in how not to run a card shop. On the plus side I did get to meet alot of really cool people and I had a built in excuse to buy more cards. Lesson learned about business, but I still love the cards!!
<< <i>Mike,
I did open a shop. 1988. Right out of high school. It was a short lived venture, not enough $$$ and all I sold was new stuff. I live in a small(5000) town and most of my customers were 8. I did get a very expensive lesson in how not to run a card shop. On the plus side I did get to meet alot of really cool people and I had a built in excuse to buy more cards. Lesson learned about business, but I still love the cards!! >>
Cool story Bear - first and foremost - Welcome!!!
I would be more able to handle the business end of it now than even a few years ago.
I don't think I know you and you haven't made a "qet acquainted" thread.
Do you mind telling something about yourself?
mike
I would be glad to. My name is Jody and I am 38. I have been collecting since 1980. I am a die hard Bear guy. In the past I tried to keep up with all the sets, subsets, and different companies. No longer, I now collect Chicago Bears. I love the old stuff. I am just getting into the graded cards and have been reading and watching the boards here before I make any major purchases. Thanks for asking and I look forward to continued conversation. Jody
Our "dumb" idea evolved to it's fruition in June of 1994, the 15th to be exact. That was the same day that Major League Baseball shut down. Three days after the NHL lockout. We opened our doors (I'm like a one twelfth partner), and waited, and waited. Some guy actually walked in and offered us a huge collection of eighties stuff, so we went over to his place and cleaned out the garage. Then we went back to the store and waited, and waited. Twelve years later, the store lives. The two principal owners are people for whom I maintain an immeasurable amount of respect. They've endured robbery, industry depression, transition, moves, opened a second store, closed a second store, considered declaring bankruptcy, had great Holiday seasons and hideously poor summers, and they are still buyin' and sellin' in the same town. The appearance has changed a bit. It used to be almost all cards, with a few plaques, a bobble-head or two, some authenticated stuff. Now, it's almost all authenticated stuff with a lot of gift type items, and very few cards besides new foil or papyrus or whatever they call packs these days. Oh, we do make a few good coins selling the graded stuff on eBay, that helps! The key, at least from my experience, is to accumulate so much stuff, you could not possibly see every good card and it justs becomes a cycle....looking at the same stuff over and over, but somehow finding just a few more needles in the haystack. Some stuff you pass up and years later it's suddenly valuable. Just lucky sometimes. Other stuff you save and it turns into crap. Happens way more often. The times I spent in the store environment, the people I got to meet, the faces that I've seen when the new cards got pulled.....Sometimes I have a tough time reading the grumbling about cards and kids and this whole thing about everyone trying to pull dollar bills out of a wax pack. Yeah, I saw it about 10% of the time, but mostly, it was kids just going crazy over pulling out a card of a good player. Then, they would innocently ask for a Card Saver. How can you refuse that?
<< <i>Then we went back to the store and waited, and waited. Twelve years later, the store lives. The two principal owners are people for whom I maintain an immeasurable amount of respect >>
Great story of survival!
Everyone thinks, if they have the right stuff people will "throw money" at you and all will be well.
It's like in the 50s when all the GI's came home from WWII - more than you would ever think opened restaurants - premise? My wife is a good cook. Well there's just more to it than that.
Running a shop is serious business and there's so much to learn.
Inventory, marketing both internal and external, customer relations, in store promotions, monitoring trends, what to buy and what NOT to buy.....
Wow, I'm tired.
I think I need a cold Bud!
mike
<< <i>
<< <i>Then we went back to the store and waited, and waited. Twelve years later, the store lives. The two principal owners are people for whom I maintain an immeasurable amount of respect >>
Great story of survival!
Everyone thinks, if they have the right stuff people will "throw money" at you and all will be well.
It's like in the 50s when all the GI's came home from WWII - more than you would ever think opened restaurants - premise? My wife is a good cook. Well there's just more to it than that.
Running a shop is serious business and there's so much to learn.
Inventory, marketing both internal and external, customer relations, in store promotions, monitoring trends, what to buy and what NOT to buy.....
Wow, I'm tired.
I think I need a cold Bud!
mike >>
Boy, is this ever true. Just about every study I've ever read suggest that the primary reason why small businesses fail-- the biggest reason, in fact-- is a simple lack of entrepeneurial talent. If you don't have that then it almost doesn't matter what else you've got going for you. I've owned two small roofing businesses, and the thing that people who've never owned a small business don't understand is that there's just never a 'day off'. You've always got SOMETHING to do, and it usually needs to be done right away.
What makes a card shop even more complicated is that your inventory, by and large, tends to decline in price over time. This isn't so true with blue chip cards ('52 Mantles, etc.), but any new stuff you acquire needs to be flipped--and fast- or you're going to lose money on it (assuming you paid something close to market price).
I first set up at a show at age 12 in 1990 with a friend of mine. It was a little dinky 25 table show in the gym of a local park. I think the table was $25, we didn't make millions or anything, but it was a fun experience. There were card shops everywhere at the time, people renting little rooms in the back of regular stores, it seemed easy. Why not?
I think what kills most small businesses is exactly that mindset. You think it's fun, interesting, and you'll have a good time. But the details are overlooked. You should always go into business with an advantage. What's your edge, what can you do that no one else does? Jack Welch has said, "if you don't have competitive advantage, don't compete". You need more than excitment to run a profitable business.
I honestly "want" to do it, but admit I have NO idea how. I would need a lot of help and do a lot of research to have a chance, and maybe admitting that would give me a chance. Oddly enough, I have a wife who tells me quite often to "just do it". Completely supportive. Of course, that support could very well go to $hit after a few months of losing money.
Boo, I didn't know you had a roofing business. I shingle a few houses a year, a couple of tear offs but mostly on the new houses we build. It was 92 here in Indiana this week and I started shingling a roof on a new house. 92 degrees on a house with a 12/12 pitch. I guess you would understand while doing ANYTHING else on days like that would be better. So I often find myself daydreaming about having a shop. "Well maybe if I drove a schoolbus in the morning and afternoon I could make a little guaranteed money and then be able to swing a shop". Things like that.
Probably won't happen. But it gives me something to dream/think about.
shawn
<< <i>
Sometimes I have a tough time reading the grumbling about cards and kids and this whole thing about everyone trying to pull dollar bills out of a wax pack. Yeah, I saw it about 10% of the time, but mostly, it was kids just going crazy over pulling out a card of a good player. Then, they would innocently ask for a Card Saver. How can you refuse that? >>
Some on these boards may be surprised how much of a deal breaker a simple thing like card savers or penny sleeves can be. The owner of the card shop I used to go to made it a point to toss me some top loaders and penny sleeves every time I bought boxes from him. When he sold and the new guy didn't even offer me a friggin bag for my boxes, well needless to say, I found myself with more money every week.
On a side note, with the evolution of the hobby going over to the internet, in case some here aren't familiar with our new friend itzagoner, he has some really neat stuff on Ebay. One of the good sellers here, folks.
Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12
Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
At any rate, this was while I was a junior in college. After school and on the weekends, we would wander in, open shop, turn on the cable tv and just relax while some of our budies stopped in. We always sold just enough to only LOSE a couple hundred a month. Split between the two of us.....it was well worth it. The kicker of it all was that there was a bakery next door and guy would always give us a large assortment of what was left at the end of the day!!!
We eventually shut it down after we graduated, but we made it for a year and a half or so.... I miss those days.
He loved the kids - he ALWAYS had some kinda holder or sleeve or something for me (and the other kids) to put those star cards in. He was a great story-teller also.....seems he had a story for every player in the "vintage" section of the store. We always went back just to hear him talk......of course, you always ended up buying something too!
He died in the late 80's, if I remember correctly, about the time I stopped collecting to focus on education.
One of the shops that is still remaining has had a great business model- Sportscard Heroes in Laurel, Maryland. They basically transform their shop every time the market changes to reflect what is selling at the time. They've always had great singles, but I remember 5 years ago they had 3 showcases of Pokemon cards and Beanie Babies, and had all the new boxes of sportscards. Now they are shying away from unopened product and 75% of their store is Authentic autographed items. They have contracts with local athletes to do signings almost every weekend. They even have an exclusive contract with Joe Theisman where they are the only place he will do signings. They were also very cool guys and would let me add cards to their PSA submissions and only charge me the $6 they paid, and they would also throw me a few free packs if I busted a bad box. I haven't bought from them in a while because I really don't do the autograph thing, but I pop in every now and then to see if they have anything I need.
The reason most shops fail is that they refuse to change with the market, and they don't do the little things that build loyalty.
Lee
what other cards you have. Heck I might just keep heritage cards in the cash register. Who needs Washington, Hamilton and Franklin
when you have Berra, Musial and Aaron?
JS
Seems like the most profitable thing to do these days is to open an auction house. There are a few people now that are doing this- buy cards on ebay, play the bump up/crossover game/clean up and grade game, sign on for the software from Create Auction, and charge 17.5% commission on your own cards. No catalog, just spam on various boards and maybe a banner ad here or there. Email everyone that has a email address on their registry set constantly. Like printing money.
There are a few stores near me, and I don't know how they stay in business. One is completely filthy, you have to step over stuff. Dark as well. Another is clean, but doesn't have any knowledge of anything. Another thinks he knows everything, which he probably did 20 years ago, but things have changed. The super clean one is overpriced, but they don't know their stuff and you can get major steals on variations and other scarcities.
None of them call customers when something new comes in. None ask for wantlists, and are often not even sure of what they have. No marketing whatsoever, no web site, little or no ebay. One guy had a walk in and put down his cards, lowballed him to .10 on the dollar (or less) and then when the guy took the deal and walked out the owner bragged to the rest of the customers in the store. And then wonders why I'd never offer him anything I've got dupes of.
One guy gets it-I walk into his store, he greats you, backs off if you're just browsing, answers questions when you ask. Takes a list of what you're working on and finds out about your collection. And follows up Interestingly, he's the only guy of all of them I ever see at shows. No matter how small the show is, if you have a store get a table. The other 6 days a week those people at the shows are buying cards as well, and they'd certainly come by the store.
Done right, and combining a storefront, web, and ebay, I think it could be viable. But you'd have to have some marketing sense and personality.
And running a vacuum over the floor every week or so wouldn't hurt either.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
<< <i>I've wrestled with idea of opening a card shop several times over the years. I'm like you Mike, I "imagine" how great it would be to go in to work, sell a few cards, talk sports with a few cool guys and then go home. I've actually thought about it recently but there was a thread on here recently about opening a shop and whether it was feasible and I then gave up again.
I honestly "want" to do it, but admit I have NO idea how. I would need a lot of help and do a lot of research to have a chance, and maybe admitting that would give me a chance. Oddly enough, I have a wife who tells me quite often to "just do it". Completely supportive. Of course, that support could very well go to $hit after a few months of losing money.
Boo, I didn't know you had a roofing business. I shingle a few houses a year, a couple of tear offs but mostly on the new houses we build. It was 92 here in Indiana this week and I started shingling a roof on a new house. 92 degrees on a house with a 12/12 pitch. I guess you would understand while doing ANYTHING else on days like that would be better. So I often find myself daydreaming about having a shop. "Well maybe if I drove a schoolbus in the morning and afternoon I could make a little guaranteed money and then be able to swing a shop". Things like that.
Probably won't happen. But it gives me something to dream/think about.
shawn >>
Hi Shawn
Many who really enjoy our hobby would like nothing more than to combine that passion with a career.
Here's one of the threads that dealt with opening a shop.
<< <i>Done right, and combining a storefront, web, and ebay, I think it could be viable. But you'd have to have some marketing sense and personality. >>
Anthony
Well put. I had listed in the thread some of my ideas about where I would "focus" my attention with respect to a shop.
Shawn
If you ever really start to "plan" out a perspectus for a shop - you can always get input here. And, for all I know, there's probably a "Basecall Shop Business for Dummies!"
Where is the first place one would start? A Business Plan. Banks require this for an SBC loan e.g.
I'll bet any money there's a "Writing a Business Plan for dummies" at Barnes and Noble?
And finally...
It's not whether you do this or not...
I remember reading O'Neill's "Iceman Cometh" in college: ""there is always one dream left, one final dream, no matter how low you have fallen, down there at the bottom of the bottle"
It's our dreams that keep us going... through all the hard times as well as good.
So keep those dreams alive and I hope to visit your shop one day!
mike
Steve aka Winpitcher can also give some insight since he owned a shop back when.
mike
Rich
I have been thinking about this a lot. I have about ten more years before I can retire from my first (maybe it’s my second) career. I have thought about a card shop, motorcycle shop, cigar store, real estate… I’m not sure.
Collector of Pittsburgh Pirates cards for a slightly less stupid reason.
My Pirates Collection
all i have to say is--thanks to Frank and Sons for closing up every card shop in the local area over the last 10 years. This was the Wal-Mart that put every mom and pop shop out of business. Now, Frank and Sons has become a dinosuar where cards go to die.
<< <i>So keep those dreams alive and I hope to visit your shop one day!
mike >>
Now wouldn't that be something?
Thanks for the reply Mike, I'll keep dreamin'
shawn
Once I decided that I would not open up a shop I decided to sell everything that I didn't want, which was roughly $80,000 worth of stuff. I re-invested some of the money and also put some of it into my kids college funds.
Rich
Here in very rural Maine, there is only 1 card shop, and it is 90% comics, Pokemon and non sport items. His wax is overpriced and his singles are at full book. No chewing him down. What is stickered is what you pay.
I have no interest in a shop, but maybe a small get together or something along that lines.
<< <i>There's only like 3 or 4 shops left in Maryland. I remember back in the early 90s when I was in high school I couldn't wait for the new Yellow Pages so I could find out how many new shops opened. There had to have been like 30 back then.
>>
About 10 years ago or so I had a repair shop and worked on cars. When the yellow pages rep came she offered me a free ad for an upgrade on something else. I put an ad in the baseball cards section with nothing but BUYING CARDS! in bright red. The red cost me $28 a month or something.
I ran it one year, got maybe 15-20 calls a week with people wanting to sell collections and 50 calls from kids with a shaq card wanting to know what it was worth. None of the other shops in town would buy collections, they would only cherry pick the hot new thing they could sell immediately.
If you live in a town with no shops, and you sell on ebay, you would be nuts not to spend the few dollars it costs for a listing. One card buy pays for the ad for the year.
Collecting:
1909-11 T206's
1955 Topps AA Football
Nate Colbert (Padres)
Good thread - Anthony, you gotta tell me who the good guy is. I know one guy who says he'll keep you in mind, but it seems he doesn't.
Back in the mid 80's, I started taking ads out in SCD and made up a catalog of items. I offered a complete run of third series 1961 Topps, including the Spahn, Gibson, Drysdale and Koufax/Podres card, for about $40 bucks. Cards from this run have since turned into 8s and 9s, but I advertised them as "gem mint", a new term for the day. A collector ordered a brick and was also interested in a group of 1963 Fleer football cards in nrmt condition. I sent him the brick and sent him the Fleer cards up front for his approval. He sent me back a letter telling me that he didn't agree with my grades on the brick and so he was just going to keep the Fleer cards. Dealing with such a jerk made me rethink my idea of becoming a full time dealer. The jerk is still around and I'll be happy to let you know who it is, but not in a public forum. Drop me a PM.
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Sometimes I think about opening a shop but it would be something else that ownership wasn't completely dependent on. I always pictured a rare books store or something. I could read the books, but I wouldn't have to own them when I was done.
2005 Origins Old Judge Brown #/20 and Black 1/1s, 2000 Ultimate Victory Gold #/25
2004 UD Legends Bake McBride autos & parallels, and 1974 Topps #601 PSA 9
Rare Grady Sizemore parallels, printing plates, autographs
Nothing on ebay
<< <i>I've wrestled with idea of opening a card shop several times over the years. I'm like you Mike, I "imagine" how great it would be to go in to work, sell a few cards, talk sports with a few cool guys and then go home. I've actually thought about it recently but there was a thread on here recently about opening a shop and whether it was feasible and I then gave up again.
I honestly "want" to do it, but admit I have NO idea how. I would need a lot of help and do a lot of research to have a chance, and maybe admitting that would give me a chance. Oddly enough, I have a wife who tells me quite often to "just do it". Completely supportive. Of course, that support could very well go to $hit after a few months of losing money.
Boo, I didn't know you had a roofing business. I shingle a few houses a year, a couple of tear offs but mostly on the new houses we build. It was 92 here in Indiana this week and I started shingling a roof on a new house. 92 degrees on a house with a 12/12 pitch. I guess you would understand while doing ANYTHING else on days like that would be better. So I often find myself daydreaming about having a shop. "Well maybe if I drove a schoolbus in the morning and afternoon I could make a little guaranteed money and then be able to swing a shop". Things like that.
Probably won't happen. But it gives me something to dream/think about.
shawn >>
AAAAAAGHHHH! 92 degrees? 12/12? That's the very reason I started working for myself; so I wouldn't have some idiot boss calling me at 6 am in the middle summer trying to get me up on a roof like that when it was 90+ degrees
But I still have all kinds of horror stories from the 13 years I was in the business (as I'm sure you do as well). My favorites have always been cedar shake tear-offs in the middle of July, followed closely by doing torch down in the middle of summer. I actually gave up doing anything 9/12 or steeper in the middle of the summer, since I ended ruining so many shingles (by walking on them after they were already installed) that it didnt seem cost effective.
And I can TOTALLY understand the need to dream of a new and fulfilling career when you're roofing in the summer. Just about every idea I've ever had for a new line of work has come between June and August. For those of you who have never done it let me assure you that there is no worse job on planet Earth than roofing when it's hotten than 85 degrees. If you do nothing else this week send out a prayer and a nice thought to Shawn.
<< <i>AAAAAAGHHHH! 92 degrees? 12/12? That's the very reason I started working for myself; so I wouldn't have some idiot boss calling me at 6 am in the middle summer trying to get me up on a roof like that when it was 90+ degrees
But I still have all kinds of horror stories from the 13 years I was in the business (as I'm sure you do as well). My favorites have always been cedar shake tear-offs in the middle of July, followed closely by doing torch down in the middle of summer. I actually gave up doing anything 9/12 or steeper in the middle of the summer, since I ended ruining so many shingles (by walking on them after they were already installed) that it didnt seem cost effective.
And I can TOTALLY understand the need to dream of a new and fulfilling career when you're roofing in the summer. Just about every idea I've ever had for a new line of work has come between June and August. For those of you who have never done it let me assure you that there is no worse job on planet Earth than roofing when it's hotten than 85 degrees. If you do nothing else this week send out a prayer and a nice thought to Shawn. >>
Well, thanks for the thought and kind words, I see you know EXACTLY where I'm coming from. I saw that show about world's dirtiest jobs and in the episode I saw the guy was jacking off a pig............I found myself wanting to trade him places.
I've been on the worst of roofing jobs, as I'm sure you have too. I've seen tear offs with two layers on top of wood shakes. It blows. But as a friend of mine says, that's why "I don't drink because I want to, I drink because I have to". Roofing in the summer is like eating a $hit sandwich without the bread. No other way to put it. But I'm not the poor laborer sweating for $7 bucks an hour, so don't feel too sorry for me. I'll make it through this one, and go on from there.
Anyway, I'd love to pull off a shop, and see all of you in there some day.
That gets me to thinking OT, how many of you have met in person??? Anyone?
shawn
<< <i>That gets me to thinking OT, how many of you have met in person??? Anyone? >>
I met Willie Mays.
Not much to brag about tho.
mike
<< <i>
<< <i>That gets me to thinking OT, how many of you have met in person??? Anyone? >>
I met Willie Mays.
Not much to brag about tho.
mike >>
I thought you were the "kid" that met Babe Ruth. I must be confused
The first thing I would do before I even thought about money and all that is to research the commercial real estate in your area. Ideally you would like to find a small space with decent foot traffic, preferably near a school, not in the "bad" part of town and minimum 500 square feet of space. You definitely want to keep your rent to around $500/mo and no more than $1.25 a square foot if you can, I'll explain why later on. If you have a LOT of money to invest, then you can consider a shopping center/mall location, but for the most part the term of leases in those places (except the bad ones) are not going to be favorable for this type of business.
The second thing to consider is very important...can you separate the "collector" from the businessman? If you decide to go into business, it is a bad idea to continue collecting. The reasoning is, you will want to keep all the best stuff you get from walk ins for yourself. Unfortunately, this is the stuff that is going to sell the best for you as well. The best attitude to have when owning a shop is to enjoy the stuff while you have it but not form any great attachments to it. The more stuff flows in and out of your store the more money you are going to make.
Don't worry too much about suppliers for modern stuff. It is quite easy to get accounts with the card manufacturers when you have a storefront. However the profit margins on that stuff is thin. You'll need to have it and some companies insist you buy EVERYTHING they produce, even the crap. Supplies will be one of your biggest profit centers and are easy to get as well. Also, once you get established, there will be a steady stream of stuff coming in. You have to develop a diplomatic skill when buying as 90% or more of the stuff that comes in you will not want to buy, and the other 10% will be insulted at your offers but most will sell anyway.
If you can make it work, you'll be happier, which will in turn make your wife and family happier as well. However do not underestimate the pitfalls. Like anything else in life, you have to know when to pull the plug. I bankrupted myself with my first venture because I couldn't bring myself to think that the business that I built could fail. With my card shop I had the benefit of previous experience so when the market started to go south in 1993, followed by the baseball strike, I could see the end was near and quietly closed down without any major financial losses.
All the small one man shops in the SF Bay Area that I know of are now gone. The ones left have either excellent financial backing and sell other than sports stuff. Most of your business will now be done on eBay and through channels like that, the store will just be gravy. This you already know, and the reason that most of these store closed was because they never changed with the times and refused to embrace eBay and or grading.
It's not rocket science, and if you have some common sense and can deal with people well there's no reason you can't make it work.
Go for it, man!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>That gets me to thinking OT, how many of you have met in person??? Anyone? >>
I met Willie Mays.
Not much to brag about tho.
mike >>
I thought you were the "kid" that met Babe Ruth. I must be confused >>
I guess I got around.
Yes, the Babe also.
mike
Thanx for the generous offer of your experience.
But, that was a 90s thing for me.
I have a business that I started in 1999 - I'm committed to it.
But I will say, the idea of going to a small shop everyday has a special allure.
This has been an interesting thread - I hope more people respond. I know more have thought about it.
You guys are the best!
mike