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Submission results on vintage and crossover results

FabfrankFabfrank Posts: 2,312
in PSA Set Registry Forum
Here are the results from a recent vintage submission. All cards were bought raw off of Ebay

1 40502458 1952 BOWMAN LARGE 142 TOM LANDRY N/A 4
2 40502459 1952 BOWMAN SMALL 142 TOM LANDRY N/A 7
3 40502460 1952 BOWMAN SMALL 19 GEORGE CONNOR N/A 7
4 40502461 1952 BOWMAN LARGE 47 BILL FISCHER N/A 7
5 40502462 1952 BOWMAN LARGE 56 TOBIN ROTE N/A 6
6 40502463 1952 BOWMAN LARGE 71 TEX COULTER N/A 7
7 40502464 1952 BOWMAN LARGE 79 BOB HOERNSCHEMEYER N/A 5
8 40502465 1952 BOWMAN LARGE 82 HARRY MINARIK N/A 7
9 40502466 1952 BOWMAN LARGE 94 GEORGE TARASOVIC N/A 6
10 40502467 1952 BOWMAN LARGE 117 JIM O'DONAHUE N/A 5
11 40502468 1952 BOWMAN LARGE 133 BOB WILLIAMS N/A 6
12 40502469 1948 LEAF 3 BULLDOG TURNER RED BACKGROUND 5
12 40502470 1948 LEAF 3 BULLDOG TURNER RED BACKGROUND 5
13 40502471 1948 LEAF 7 BILL FISCHER N/A 6
14 40502472 1948 LEAF 9 TOM THOMPSON N/A 6
15 40502473 1948 LEAF 10 PERRY MOSS N/A 7OC
16 40502474 1948 LEAF 11 TERRY BRENNAN N/A 6
16 40502475 1948 LEAF 11 TERRY BRENNAN N/A 7OC
17 40502476 1948 LEAF 12 WILLIAM SWIACKI BLACK NAME ON FRONT 4
18 40502477 1948 LEAF 16 PETE PIHOS N/A 6OC
19 40502478 1948 LEAF 22 STEVE VAN BUREN N/A 4
20 40502479 1948 LEAF 27 FRED DAVIS YELLOW BACKGROUND 6
20 40502480 1948 LEAF 27 FRED DAVIS YELLOW BACKGROUND 6
21 40502481 1948 LEAF 32 LEROY ZIMMERMAN N/A 4
22 40502482 1948 LEAF 42 DeWITT COULTER N/A 7
23 40502483 1948 LEAF 61 LEN YOUNCE N/A 5
24 40502484 1948 LEAF 70 PHIL O'REILLY N/A 6
25 40502485 1948 LEAF 74 RUSS STEGER N/A 6
26 40502486 1948 LEAF 79 ROD FRANZ N/A 7
27 40502487 1948 LEAF 85 JOE SCOTT N/A 6
28 40502488 1952 BOWMAN LARGE 70 GENE SCHROEDER N/A 8OC
29 40502489 1957 TOPPS 101 ELBIE NICKEL N/A 7
30 40502490 1951 BOWMAN 109 MARION MOTLEY N/A 7
31 40502491 1952 BOWMAN SMALL 2 OTTO GRAHAM N/A 7
32 40502492 1950 BOWMAN 14 GEORGE TALIAFERRO N/A 8
33 40502493 1948 LEAF 3 BULLDOG TURNER RED BACKGROUND 7
34 40502494 1948 LEAF 8 VINCE BANONIS BLACK NAME ON FRONT 7
35 40502495 1948 LEAF 25 ELMER ANGSMAN BLACK NAME ON FRONT 7
36 40502496 1948 LEAF 60 RICHARD HARRIS N/A 6
37 40502497 1948 LEAF 66 JACK CLOUD N/A 5

Lines 28 through 37 were all either crossovers or resubmits. I didn't ask for NQ since I knew many of the card would get OC designation. I was more concerned that some cards wouldn't grade. The only real dissapointment was 52 large Tom Landry. I felt that the card was easily a 6 and had a strong shot at a 7. I might have to resubmit that one.

Here are the crossover and crackout results:
57 Topps E. Nickel GAI 7.5 to PSA 7. This card is tough to find in PSA 8 and is nicer than some of the 8's I've seen. Resubmit

51 Bowman M. Motley PSA 5 to PSA 7. I was shocked when this card originally got it's 5 grade. 7 is the correct grade.

52 Bowman Small Otto Graham PSA 6 to PSA 7. This is a strong 7, not quite an 8. 7 is the correct grade.

52 Bowman Small G. Schroder PSA 6 to Bowman Large PSA 8OC. Card was mis-holdered as a small. 8OC is correct grade.

50 Bowman G. Taliaferro SGC 92 to PSA 8. Surprised this card didn't get a 9. Strong 8 that I might resubmit.

48 Leaf Bulldog Turner SGC 84 to PSA 7. Solid 7. Wouldn't complain if it was in an 8. This one will go into my Set Registry

48 Leaf V. Banonis SGC 84 to PSA 7. Same as above, but I think this will get the 8 on a resubmit.

48 Leal E. Angsman SGC 84 to PSa 7. Another solid 7. No complaints.

48 Leaf R. Harris SGC 80 to PSA 6. Another straight crossover. No complaints. A really nice 6.

I lost the old holder for the 48 leaf J. Cloud, but it is accurately graded at PSA 5

Aside from the cards going into my registry, the rest will be for sale. Anyone interested can PM me.
Frank
Baseball is my Pastime, Football is my Passion

Comments

  • kadokakidkadokakid Posts: 426 ✭✭
    Frank:

    Does the fact that a card is resubmitted and bumped up a level affect the price you receive when selling.
    I would think a PSA 8 that was once a PSA 6 or 7, would sell lower than a card that was originally an 8.

    Just curious, as a newbie.

    Thanks

    Doug
    Trying to complete 1970 psa set.
    45% complete.
  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭


    << <i>Frank:

    Does the fact that a card is resubmitted and bumped up a level affect the price you receive when selling.
    I would think a PSA 8 that was once a PSA 6 or 7, would sell lower than a card that was originally an 8.

    Just curious, as a newbie.

    Thanks

    Doug >>



    Ummmm.... well, it might effect it if you announced what holder the card used to be in, but I can't imagine what the incentive would be for a seller to make that kind of disclosure.
  • kadokakidkadokakid Posts: 426 ✭✭
    It apprears Frank disclosed, and is trying to sell them.

    Just curious.

    Thanks
    Trying to complete 1970 psa set.
    45% complete.
  • FabfrankFabfrank Posts: 2,312
    Boopotts is right. I don't think any seller would advertise that a card they had was once a lower grade. That's why it's important to buy the card and not the holder, or rather the # on the holder. Most of the cards are for sale, and posting this was really not with any intention for disclosure. It was to show that with agood eye you can buy decent raw. Also, if you have a card and don't agree with the grade, put your money up (like I did) and get it re-graded.
    Baseball is my Pastime, Football is my Passion
  • kadokakidkadokakid Posts: 426 ✭✭
    It just gets back to inconsistency of grading, and the appearance that
    CU is trying to generate revenue by this practice happening. If the next 1000 resubmissions
    came back exactly as they were originally graded, I would think the resubmit game would
    come to a screeching halt. I personally think it is BS that one needs to submit cards multiple
    times to get the grade the submitter thinks it deserves.

    Anyone agree or disagree?


    Peace
    Trying to complete 1970 psa set.
    45% complete.
  • kadokakidkadokakid Posts: 426 ✭✭
    No takers on my queston I see. Seems to always end the conversation when I bring this up.

    Can't wait for my submissions to come back, if I'm the only asking this question.

    Peace
    Trying to complete 1970 psa set.
    45% complete.
  • CoachTomCoachTom Posts: 78
    I have seen an Ebay auction where the guy stated this card used to be a 7 but it is a 6 now. Maybe that was his way of trying to get more for the six.

    Coach Tom
    Always interested in Hank Aaron items-currently buying Aaron OPC singles or lots-graded or raw.
  • 19541954 Posts: 2,902 ✭✭✭
    Doug-
    There will always be a card misgraded by PSA or SGC. I don't think there is anyone out there who can grade cards perfectly every time. When the card is grossly over/under graded is when it pisses collectors off. The important thing in collecting is knowing the condition standards of the hobby. If you see an error by a professional you need to take advantage of it by resubmitting it.

    Shane
    Looking for high grade rookie cards and unopened boxes/cases
  • kadokakidkadokakid Posts: 426 ✭✭
    Shane:

    Thanks for the reply. I understand errors happen, but I would think a grading company would fix the error,
    not require someone to pay to have a card graded 3 or 4 times to get the error corrected.
    Just doesn't sit right with me.


    Peace
    Trying to complete 1970 psa set.
    45% complete.
  • 19541954 Posts: 2,902 ✭✭✭
    Just because we think it might be an error does not mean that an error has occured. We pay a grading service for their opinion as to the grade. If that grading service is not doing a great job they won't be in business, i.e. GAI or BVS.
    Looking for high grade rookie cards and unopened boxes/cases
  • kadokakidkadokakid Posts: 426 ✭✭
    Shane:

    If you have a feel for it, what percentage of cards resubmitted get a bump in grade?

    Maybe I'm blowing this way out of proportion.

    Thanks

    Doug
    Trying to complete 1970 psa set.
    45% complete.
  • SKINSFANSKINSFAN Posts: 1,032
    FRANK Email sent


    ART
  • FabfrankFabfrank Posts: 2,312
    Doug- You can bring a card to PSA at a show they attend and ask for a review if you believe a card has been undergraded.
    When I receive my grades I always compare the grade I got to what I expected. If the grade doesn't match I than scrutinize to see why I was wrong. I would say 90-95% of the time, I pick up something I missed and agree with PSA's opinion. The few exceptions (the crackouts I mentioned), are when I feel PSA was wrong and the card is worth re-submitting. Percentage wise I would say it' s about 5% (my guesstimate) or less per submission.
    Baseball is my Pastime, Football is my Passion
  • BearCollectorBearCollector Posts: 124 ✭✭
    I would say my experiences echo Frank's in terms of rough percentages. Most times there are minor issues that we pay these guys to catch, or we're pretty borderline in the first place. Some submissions get almost no upward benefit on those borderline cards, some get more, but if they're on the border to begin with I have no complaints and figure the next will go more my direction.
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    Nice job on the Landry 7 and the Otto Graham 7.

    Looks like a pretty good submission to me, at least from the "bought raw off ebay" perspective. There are still some deals out there.
    image
    My eBay Store

    BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭


    << <i>Shane:

    Thanks for the reply. I understand errors happen, but I would think a grading company would fix the error,
    not require someone to pay to have a card graded 3 or 4 times to get the error corrected.
    Just doesn't sit right with me.


    Peace >>





    I think you're looking at it all wrong. Let's say a card is submitted and comes back an 8. It's then resubmitted and comes back a 9. The owner gets greedy, thinks the card has a shot at a 10, so resubmits it again and it comes back an 8 again. He cracks it a fourth time and again it comes back a 9.

    What's the 'error' at PSA? The card is obviously a slider-- it could qualify as a high end 8, or a low to mid grade 9. There isn't any mistake on PSA's behalf, since you can't argue that the card should be assigned one and only one grade. There are tons of cards that fit these criterion, which is why you see so much crack and submit.

    As far as the conversation stopping every time you bring this up, I doubt that has anything to do with anyone not wanting to discuss this. Rather, it stems from the fact that anyone who's been on these boards for longer than 2 years has had this discussion at least 20 times, and probably doesn't see a point in getting into it for the 21st time.
  • 19541954 Posts: 2,902 ✭✭✭
    Anyone that cracks out a PSA 9 after it was a PSA 8 hoping to get a PSA 10 is an idiot. I hardly believe that someone would do this.

    Shane
    Looking for high grade rookie cards and unopened boxes/cases
  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭


    << <i>Anyone that cracks out a PSA 9 after it was a PSA 8 hoping to get a PSA 10 is an idiot. I hardly believe that someone would do this.

    Shane >>




    It was just a theoretical example. My point is that you can send in the same card 100 times, and it's possible it comes back a PSA 8 fifty times and a PSA 9 fifty times, in which case you can't say that either assigned grade is an error.
  • kadokakidkadokakid Posts: 426 ✭✭
    Thanks for humoring a newbie, I understand not caring after it has been discussed numerous times.
    From a purely, I'm sure naive point of view, it just cheapens the grading process when crack and resubmit is so prevalent. Granted I am just putting my first submission together, hopefully will go out next week, but I don't have much confidence in the consistency of the grading process. As I said earlier I am probably making a mountain out of a mole hill, but for some reason it just doesn't sit right with me.

    I guess I'll just have pop the cherry and make the first submission and maybe then I'll understand the game a bit a better.

    Plan on submitting about 50 1966 topps baseball, probably will get killed, but maybe I'll learn something from the process.

    Thanks

    Peace

    Doug
    Trying to complete 1970 psa set.
    45% complete.
  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭


    << <i>Thanks for humoring a newbie, I understand not caring after it has been discussed numerous times.
    From a purely, I'm sure naive point of view, it just cheapens the grading process when crack and resubmit is so prevalent. Granted I am just putting my first submission together, hopefully will go out next week, but I don't have much confidence in the consistency of the grading process. As I said earlier I am probably making a mountain out of a mole hill, but for some reason it just doesn't sit right with me.

    I guess I'll just have pop the cherry and make the first submission and maybe then I'll understand the game a bit a better.

    Plan on submitting about 50 1966 topps baseball, probably will get killed, but maybe I'll learn something from the process.

    Thanks

    Peace

    Doug >>




    It can definitely be infurating, but the fault lies not with the card graders but rather with the grading standards themselves. If PSA had set up a simple 1-5 grading scale, instead of 1-10, just about everything would be graded 'accurately' the first time and you wouldn't have all these other shenanigans. As it stands, though, the minute differences between one grade and the next have given rise to the 'slider' card, and I'm afraid it's here to stay.

    If you think cards are bad you should look at the grading scale for coins. NINE different grades for 'mint'?? Can you imagine of the PSA scale went 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and then 9.1,9.2,9.3 and so on? There is actually a book written about crack and submit for coin collectors/dealers--- that's how prevalent (and lucrative, I guess) it is in the coin world.
  • FabfrankFabfrank Posts: 2,312
    From a purely, I'm sure naive point of view, it just cheapens the grading process when crack and resubmit is so prevalent. Granted I am just putting my first submission together, hopefully will go out next week, but I don't have much confidence in the consistency of the grading process

    Kadokakid- I hope you do well with your first submission, but odds are you will dissappointed. Once your anger and sense of betrayal passes, look at the cards you got back from PSA and see why they got the grades that they did. Have a copy of PSA's grading standards next tp you when you this. YOu will find that based on their grading standards, you will agree with most of what you got. Some you might slightly disagree and a few you will strongly disagree. The ones that you strongly disagree, put aside and wait a few days to review again with a fresh eye. If you still feel those cards aren't right, and they are worth regrading, than send them back for review or crack and resubmit.

    By using this method when I put my submissions together and after I receive them, I've cut down on unnecessary grading fees.
    Good luck and let us now your results.
    Baseball is my Pastime, Football is my Passion
  • kadokakidkadokakid Posts: 426 ✭✭
    Frank:

    Thanks for the advice, I'm sure the first submission will be rough!

    Peace
    Trying to complete 1970 psa set.
    45% complete.
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