FRANKLIN FULL BELL LINES ????

DONNYJF

Would someone help me out ,Please.
I have a number of Proof and Mint set with Franklins.
I need to see a coin with what is called "FULL BELL LINES"
MY EYES ARE CROSSED FROM LOOKING AT BELLS WITHOUT REALLY KNOWING WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR

rmoss

Go to any good coin dealers web site and look at FBL Franklins. Some sites really let you see big pictures of the coins. Right off the top of my head, RCNH and TNFC have some good pics of FBL Frankies in their offerings.

Ron



TNFC

Edited to add a link.

RCNH

greghansen

There arre minor differences in the standards used by NGC and PCGS in assigning the FBL designation.

NGC evaluates both clusters of parallel lines near the bottom of the Liberty bell. Under NGC standards, all of these lines must be visible along their entire lengths to within a short distance to the left and right of the bell's crack. Whether from weak striking or abrasions, no more than a couple of small interruptions in the lines are permitted.

PCGS' designation focuses on the bottom set of lines. A few light marks across the bottom set of lines will not prevent a coin from receiving a FBL designation as long as the marks do not interrupt the continuity of the lines. SLIGHT incompleteness of the bell lines immediately to the left or right of the crack that traverses the bell will not in itself prevent a coin from receiving the FBL designation.

Rick Tomaska opines in his book that the lines may not have to run right up to the crack of the Liberty bell, but should be complete to within 1/64 of an inch of the crack.

I had fun for a couple of years searching out NGC coins that failed to get the FBL designation because of chatter or incompleteness in the upper set of lines. If the bottom lines were clean and complete, these were good candidates for cross over to FBL at PCGS. I crossed several NGC non-FBL coins to PCGS FBL coins in that manner. The downside however...was that it was usually at a point lower on the grading scale.

And finally, The FBL designation is typically applied to mint state coins only. Proof coins are not designated FBL by any major service. Instead, for proof coins, the focus is on whether they have a Brilliant, Cameo or Deep Cameo appearance.

If you get a chance to get to a major show, there are usually a couple of dealers that have boxes and boxes of certified Franklins sitting out for viewing. Or if your at a show with a major auction occurring, go look at all the Franklin half lots, both FBL and non-FBL. If you get a chance to go through a couple of hundred of coins both FBL and non-FBL graded by both services, you will get a feel for what is required by both. It's not that tough really to quickly acquire a pretty good feel for what will and will not, pass at both services as FBL once you see their graded coins.

lonelyp

<< <i>Go to any good coin dealers web site and look at FBL Franklins. Some sites really let you see big pictures of the coins. Right off the top of my head, RCNH and TNFC have some good pics of FBL Frankies in their offerings.

Ron



TNFC

Edited to add a link.

RCNH


The TNFC coin seems to have a hit just over the striker. Does that not interupt the lines to much?

greghansen

The TNFC coin seems to have a hit just over the striker. Does that not interupt the lines to much?

If your referring to the area just above and to the left of the striker, along the bottom edge of the bell, that is a feature of the coin design...and not a surface disturbance.

sinin1

you can look at your proofs for examples (most have complete lines)

at PCGS the bottom set of 3 lines being complete is all that is needed

lonelyp

<< <i>The TNFC coin seems to have a hit just over the striker. Does that not interupt the lines to much?

If your referring to the area just above and to the left of the striker, along the bottom edge of the bell, that is a feature of the coin design...and not a surface disturbance. >>



AAH yes,

I see that looking at a proof coin.

Someone posted a thread a while back with 4 or more Frankies, "guess the grade?" It was fun and informative. Some were toned, some blast white, FBL,? PL,? Grade?
I wish more of the photographers in the group would do this. If only to help us dummies learn some more. Even if we gettem all wrong, at the time. Of course I may have missed threads of this sort also. We may get alot more of them than I know of
pz

SUPERCARCOINS

Stealheader sez this is not a question and answer forum -so shut your pieholes

lonelyp

<< <i>Stealheader sez this is not a question and answer forum -so shut your pieholes >>




IT'S NOT???

Coulda fooled me.

Bobk

Donnyjf, greghanson is on the money You might pick up a copy of, An Analysis of Gem Franklin Half

Dollars. By Jack Ehrmantraut Jr. Bobk

foodude

greghansen gave a good answer.

If anyone wants a explantion further explain with actual coins, see me at one of the shows I attend, and I'll walk you through it. This week I'll be at the MidAmerica show.

bushmaster8

greghansen did indeed write an elegant explanation.

But I have to comment on this statement:



<< <i> If you get a chance to go through a couple of hundred of coins both FBL and non-FBL graded by both services, you will get a feel for what is required by both. >>



The trouble with this, is that PCGS's FBL standard has varied so much over the years, that you may come away from this exercise more befuddled than in the beginning.

There are literally thousands and thousands of older make PCGS Franklins out there that have been designated FBL's and are NOT FBL by the standard applied today.

If those coins were to be cracked out and resubmitted raw, they will not likely get FBL the 2nd time around. It is a very unfortunate and frustrating situation.

DONNYJF

Wow, What a way to start the day..........

Thanks to all for your help.

I guess it's back to the loop for some more tired eyes after checking them out.

foodude

The trouble with this, is that PCGS's FBL standard has varied so much over the years,

That is another issue. The published standards have been the same, now the interpretation/application of the standards ... I agree the application of the standards over time do not seem to be uniform. There have been several FBL designated Frankies I've passed on, including 2 '53-Ss (one in MS 64, and two in MS65), because of the bell lines.

bushmaster8

Here is a perfect example. This coin is only about 50% FBL by anyone with half a brain's standards.

WTF? were they thinking? that people actually buy plastic, and not coins???

Russ

<< <i>Here is a perfect example. This coin is only about 50% FBL by anyone with half a brain's standards. >>



What's even more interesting is that the coin was a show submission. Aren't dealers always whining about how tough PCGS is at shows? Fact is, I've seen a lot of show submitted coins that I thought were weak for the grade.

Russ, NCNE

bushmaster8

It's enuff to cause a fellow to switch from collecting Frankies to collecting Kennedys!

NOT!

mcheath

wow bushmaster that 62 might have less than 50% bell lines, i would be really surprised if hadn't seen worse with designation.

foodude

It looks like there are scuffs on the plastic obscuring the view of the actual coin.

Ronyahski

<< <i>Here is a perfect example. This coin is only about 50% FBL by anyone with half a brain's standards.

WTF? were they thinking? that people actually buy plastic, and not coins??? >>



The coin also looks about 50% a 66 as well. It's $40 out of the holder.

The reverse is doubled.

pontiacinf

<< <i>Here is a perfect example. This coin is only about 50% FBL by anyone with half a brain's standards.

WTF? were they thinking? that people actually buy plastic, and not coins??? >>



50%???

I think your being generous

SUPERCARCOINS

.........Contact Mad Marty ; he`s a FBL specialist