1993 Finest refractor PSA 10 Griffey LOL!

DaBigHurt

PSA 10?


For people who follow 1993 finest refractors, PSA's inability to properly and CONSISTENTLY grade cards in this set is nothing new, but this one takes the cake.

How can a card that's not only off-centered top to bottom, but left to right AND has a gigantic print line that cuts the card in half garner a "gem mint" grade?

A few years ago, PSA 10 1993 finest refs were almost nonexistent. Today, there are more than 1,700 PSA 10's in the set and there are 26 Griffey's alone. As Paul Harvey would say, "and now you know...the rest of the story..Good Day!"

jmbkb4

I know what you mean. DBH, do you recall the gigantic lot of 8141..../8151.... that was graded several months ago? These are some cards from that lot, in which there were HUNDREDS of PSA 10's given out that did not deserve it, in any possible way.

I've currently got a raw Griffey (pictured below; no refractor lines) up on eBay that's already at $440. I included in my auction descrption to check out the "atrocious" centering on the PSA 10 to which you've alluded.

The PSA 10's up there now from consignmints are mostly solid 8's with a few 9's sprinkled in. Rest assured, you will find crappier PSA 10's nowhere.

Edited to add: Look at the cert. #s around this Griffey 10. If I recall, there were TWELVE PSA 10's OF GRIFFEY GRADED BACK-TO-BACK.
Something really stinks here.

gosteelers

DBH,
You should know by now that PSA doesn't really kill you for refractor lines on the '93s. Now, the centering is another story...

Mark

gosteelers

<< <i>I know what you mean. DBH, do you recall the gigantic lot of 8141..../8151.... that was graded several months ago? These are some cards from that lot, in which there were HUNDREDS of PSA 10's given out that did not deserve it, in any possible way.

I've currently got a raw Griffey up on eBay that's already at $440. I included in my auction descrption to check out the "atrocious" centering on the PSA 10 to which you've alluded.

The PSA 10's up there now from consignmints are mostly 8's with a few 9's sprinkled in. Rest assured, you will find crappier PSA 10's nowhere. >>



Josh,
I won a Caminiti 10 from him a few weeks back. The one corner was touched! A 10!

Mark

Carew29

Hey bigH--You just gave your age away. Most people here on this board are probably saying--"who did Paul Harvey play for?"

onlyanumber

Must've been a rookie grader

jmbkb4

Mark,

You and I are little guys. These cards are from the same submission that bbcardco, wcsports1, and possibly auctionhelper have sold dozens of PSA 10s. That 8141 submission was an absolute monster -- I'd guess a couple thousand refractors.

But...If you and I could assemble a 500-card submission to PSA, run it through the Bulk Service, have people glaze over the cards and assign 90+% PSA 10 grades, we could make some $$$.

gosteelers

I hear ya, Josh. I noticed Edgar Martinez went from 7 to 17 (total number of 10's in existence) in one pop report update! Unbelievable...

jmbkb4

<< <i>I hear ya, Josh. I noticed Edgar Martinez went from 7 to 17 (total number of 10's in existence) in one pop report update! Unbelievable... >>


I was talking to a fellow collector of these cards (JMK) a couple weeks ago, and he said that, in ONE WEEK, there were 78 or 79 '93 Refractors graded and 76 (literally) were graded PSA 10. What a load of B.S.

gosteelers

This brings up a good question. Is it simply the same 'ol story, big $$$ dealers getting breaks on grades, or is it an issue of imcompetent graders?

Mark

jmbkb4

<< <i>This brings up a good question. Is it simply the same 'ol story, big $$$ dealers getting breaks on grades, or is it an issue of imcompetent graders?

Mark >>


Mark, it's clearly both. It is obvious to me that the 8141..../8151.... grader(s) is a BULK grader. I've never had these numbers and I've sent in too many submissions in the last year to count. It's embarrassing.

So...here's what you have: an incompetent (bulk) grader that saw so many of these cards in one or two submissions that he naturally began to give out more and more and more 10's.

It is clearly both [subconscious] preferential treatment and blazing incompetence, IMHO.

I think it would be difficult to find any PSA 10 '93 Refractors with any other Cert. #s (404..., 315..., 316..., 904..., 905..., etc.) that even come close to this percentage of 10's or have 10's that look so horrible. None of my 10's even come close to this lack of quality.

DaBigHurt

What kills me about the 93 ref set is how inconsistent they are. The 1993 ref set is one of the most popular modern sets in existence, a landmark set if you will. So why isn't more care being given when grading this set? Can you imagine something like the 1952 Topps set being graded as inconsistently like this? One day, the pop reports are stable, but the next, an explosion of PSA 9s to throw the pop report into chaos?

Heck, I'm not even asking for the graders to be as thorough with the refs as they are with 52 Topps, but at least be as consistent as when they grade 1993 SP?

Pop 10 1993 SP cards have been stable throughout the years (very low number of PSA 10s have been handed out) and cards retain their value. When you get a PSA 10 1993 SP Jeter, you know it must be downright stunning. There have only been 8 PSA 10s graded on the Jeter, with almost 8,000 submitted.

With 1984 Donruss PSA 10s, you should have a pretty good idea how the card will look sight unseen. Centering should be near perfect, corners good and no flaws. With 1993 Finest refractors in PSA 10, you can get one copy that's perfectly centered, no print lines, razor sharp corners with a perfect surface, or you can wind up with that Frankenstein monster Griffey 10 we're talking about.

alohaet

Since I am relatively new to collecting these refractors, I appreciate the knowledge all of you are putting out here. I have bought some of these cards from a couple of people on this board and have not had a problem. But you have given me new things to consider before I buy any additional cards on ebay. I most likely will keep buying from the same people. Thanks for the heads up guys.

Ed

jmbkb4

I've gotten at least 90% of my PSA 10's from either direct submission or trade. I feel sorry for the guys that have bought most of their PSA 10 '93 Refractors on eBay................

jmbkb4

<< <i>Since I am relatively new to collecting these refractors, I appreciate the knowledge all of you are putting out here. I have bought some of these cards from a couple of people on this board and have not had a problem. But you have given me new things to consider before I buy any additional cards on ebay. I most likely will keep buying from the same people. Thanks for the heads up guys.

Ed >>


Hey stranger,

Boy, am I glad you got that box after a couple weeks! I was starting to sweat it!

Yes, buying PSA 10's right now is not the brightest thing to do. For example, there will be at least 8 PSA 10 Griffeys listed in rapid succession over the next few months. Now, they're bringing $1,000. In a year, PSA 10 Griffeys will be worth $500 tops. It is the card with the most dramatic population change in PSA 10 grade over the past 2 months.

Take care Ed!

Josh

NewJerseyMeatHook

The humanity!

alohaet

Josh and Mark (gosteelers), Are the board members I refered to in my post. Both class acts to buy from. Josh was particularly patient with me when my email was not working well. Thanks. Mark and I went back and forth before I settled on the cards I wanted. Thanks.

I am very concerned with centering when I purchase any card and both these guys came through with well centered cards for me. Hope to do business with both of you again.

Ed

DaBigHurt

<< <i>

<< <i>I hear ya, Josh. I noticed Edgar Martinez went from 7 to 17 (total number of 10's in existence) in one pop report update! Unbelievable... >>


I was talking to a fellow collector of these cards (JMK) a couple weeks ago, and he said that, in ONE WEEK, there were 78 or 79 '93 Refractors graded and 76 (literally) were graded PSA 10. What a load of B.S. >>



But at this point, what can the people who have spent tons for the early PSA 10s do but to grab their ankles and take it?

They have way too much invested in the set and going forward, the numbers for PSA 10s will just keep getting worst.

bsfastball

About a year and a half ago I found that there was money to be made buying raw 1993 refractors off ebay, mainly from bobbabo1 (or something like that) and submitting them to PSA. PSA 9's back then would go for between $50-$300 and PSA 10's were nonexistent. I submitted probably a hundred or so of them and pulled mostly 9's and only two 10's. Let me tell you, I wish I had saved the population reports from a year and a half ago. I doubt there were more than 50 or 60 PSA 10's in the entire set. The pop report was mostly 9's with some 8's and lower sprinkled in. I sold them all on ebay. The first PSA 10 refractor I sold (Juan Guzman) went for $609 (was a 1/1 at the time). I later sold a Greg Swindell for $400 (was a 1/2 or 1/3). At the time, I was considering putting together a graded set.

Looking at the pop report now makes me want to puke. I swear, 80% of the cards graded by PSA must have come back 10's over the past year to change the population reports this much. I think there must be something to this rumor that these cards can be faked. There are 33 PSA 10 Carlos Baerga refractors! I mean, come on!

Stone193

My personal experience?

PSA has the greatest graders on the planet and they don't make mistakes.

Never question the fallibility of PSA.

mike

Boopotts

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I hear ya, Josh. I noticed Edgar Martinez went from 7 to 17 (total number of 10's in existence) in one pop report update! Unbelievable... >>


I was talking to a fellow collector of these cards (JMK) a couple weeks ago, and he said that, in ONE WEEK, there were 78 or 79 '93 Refractors graded and 76 (literally) were graded PSA 10. What a load of B.S. >>



But at this point, what can the people who have spent tons for the early PSA 10s do but to grab their ankles and take it?

They have way too much invested in the set and going forward, the numbers for PSA 10s will just keep getting worst. >>



I think 'grabbing your ankles and taking it' is a move that anyone who has bought early PSA 10's, no matter what the sport or issue, should get very familiar with.

SDavid

If someone were counterfeiting these cards, wouldn't they make them with better centering? Or would that be too obvious?

Boopotts

<< <i>If someone were counterfeiting these cards, wouldn't they make them with better centering? Or would that be too obvious? >>



That would seem reasonable, but then it's always dangerous to overestimate the intelligence of a crooked sports card dealer.... one thing is for sure, a LOT of these have been popping up in GEM 10 lately, which is weird considering how long this set has been popular.

Wizardsguildcards

I included in my auction descrption to check out the "atrocious" centering on the PSA 10 to which you've alluded

Becareful doing that EBay could see that as auction interference if it gets reported and your auction could be pulled.

jmbkb4

<< <i>I included in my auction descrption to check out the "atrocious" centering on the PSA 10 to which you've alluded

Becareful doing that EBay could see that as auction interference if it gets reported and your auction could be pulled. >>


That would be far better than someone paying $1,000 for that ugly-ass 10!

DaBigHurt

As ugly as that Griffey 10 is, I've learned not to underestimate the willingness of people to buy the label and not the card.

I think the Griffey will end at $1500.