1901-S Barber Quarter Question?

MrBreeze

For the experts, what is a good range for the value of this particular coin in G4, G6, VG8? I can easily see the "market value" by looking at past and current auctions, sales, etc. What I am looking for, is an opinion from the specialists, as to what the price should be. In other words, is the 01-S four times as valuable as the 13-S? Is it 7-9 times more valuable than the 96-S? Is it way overblown, compared to other lesser known "key/semi-key" dates in the series? My reason for asking this question is to validate (or not) my impression that, while most coins in certain series have increased in this bull market, certain coins have increased exponentially. The multiple for certain coins has increased to an "irrationally exuberant" level. Thus, the current market prices for such items are no longer relevant or relative to the normal coin market.

ziggy29

Not a series expert, but my understanding from a lot of Barber folks is that in the AG-G range, the '01-S is seen somewhat frequently but demand keeps sending the price higher and higher. In Fine and above, it's seen much less often.

As for the valuation question, like anything it's valuation is subject to demand. It may not be 7-9x rarer than the '13-S, but it's the one everyone is seeking, hence the much higher valuation relative to scarcity.

In many series, coins that are perceived to be *the* key are usually valued above and beyond their scarcity relative to other key and semi-key dates. Everyone wants "the biggie" in their respective series.

TheRaven

At the CSNS in Columbus a few weeks ago I think I saw about 6-8 of these coins in AG-G condition.....

None is VG to higher condition however.....

Barberman55

I feel that the 01-s is currently overpriced (especially in grades AG and Good), relative to supply. With that in mind, my optimal grade for the 01-s would be in VG-8 and up. Proportionately there are far fewer VG-8's floating around than AG and Good's. My feeling is that for the extra money spent on a VG........the collector is getting alot more bang for his buck.

Although prices have risen substantially on the 13-s, and to a lesser degree on the 96-s, both of these dates appear to be a better bargain at today's prices then the 01-s. Using today's pop reports and the NY subway hoard as gage's, in many grades the 01-s is not 5 or 6 times scarcer than the 13-s or 96-s, and hence, shouldn't be 5 or 6 times more expensive to purchase.

bushmaster8

It's a tad overpriced.

Forget about it and buy up all the XF-AU 1909-O's you can find. (But you will find that they are unavailable).

ARCO

As scarce as the 1901-S is for collectors, it is not scarce or difficult to find by any stretch in the "average circulated" grades of AG-G6. They are all over, and available all the time in every major coin auction or selling venue. For a good history of prices realized, there is nothing better than Heritage's auction history. The prices have risen dramatically the last three or four years so be sure to focus on the last year or newer for prices realized.

Now a nice VG8 is going to be much tougher to find and at that grade, if nicely toned, it will not go cheap.

F2 = $2200-$2500
AG3 = $3200 - $3700 (depends on the real grade and not the listed slab grade)
G4 = missing rims $4300-5000, with full rims 5000+

Dave99B would be a good source to PM and inquire. He collects the Barber quarters except for the 1901-S as he is waiting for pre-1980 coin prices to return.

Tyler

goose3

I will also add that I have seen many AG3's and G4's being slabbed and sold as G4 and G6's when in reality they are barely a 3 or 4.

This is one coin I usually watch on ebay.

Jim Dimmick will probably chime in here as well about them.

Dave99B

Howdy MrBreeze,

Speaking only of circuated material, I would tend to agree that the Big-3 are probably a tad inflated in price when compared to some of the other Barber semi-keys. This is especially true in the lower grades, G4 and less. A fair number of tired, 01-S G4 quarters exist. But as you drift higher, into grades VG and above, I think the price differentials are about right. The Big-3 keys kick some serious ars at that point!

I would agree with Tyler's rough estimates for the 01-S, with the caveat that really nice, original pieces will go for even a larger premium. Many problem 01-S, 96-S, and 13-S quarters are certified by PCGS and others; graders seem to look the other way when it comes to these dates, which often have the same light-to-moderate cleaning that seem to plague the Barbers. This is also true with semi-keys. So keep in mind that the price history for keys/semi-keys include many of these “borderline” pieces. Find a lovely circulated piece with original surfaces and you’ll have to pay the piper.

In Fine and better, the 01-S is many times rarer than the 96-S and 13-S. Too ridiculous to put into words, although the Grand Canyon comes to mind.

Dave

MrBreeze

Thank You to all.

goose3

Here's a prime example of what I posted.....in my opinion of course......




I would call this coin a nice Good4 and nothing more.

It's a PCGS G6.

MrBreeze

Goose, my Sick Twisted Freaky friend, I tend to agree with you.

ziggy29

<< <i>I would call this coin a nice Good4 and nothing more.

It's a PCGS G6. >>

Agreed. I suspect this coin was "market graded" and given a bump for its eye appeal and relative originality. Maybe it deserves to fetch G-6 money in the market...but it's still a technical G-4.

TheRaven

As somebody that likes these low grade coins I agree that would be a G4 to me.....

It probably would be to if it was not a 1901-S

pontiacinf

<< <i>Here's a prime example of what I posted.....in my opinion of course......




I would call this coin a nice Good4 and nothing more.

It's a PCGS G6. >>



ok im ignorant on this series, but is there any special grading criteria for this date. Ive seen in the past on certain denoms/series one year is singled out, maybe cause of hubbing, known weak strike, etc. I believe you know where im going on this.

again, just a stupid question as Im not well versed on Barbers

jdimmick

John Just PM'd me this thread, so I guess Ill comment some. I have been extremely busy with work and getting my coin business going. Anyway,

IMHO, I believe that 01-s quarter in AG-G are currently overpriced as compared to there availability. However, you have to keep in mind that this is a grade where most collectors will have to settle at. 1) Becuase they are so non-existant in mid circulated grades , and secondly the price if you were forunate to have found one, is beyond the means of many collectors. This keeps the price in this grade range elevated higher than it technically should be IMO. Current sheet levels for this coin in this grade range are about the most I would want to pay currently, and even then, I would only recommend buying the choicer/eye-appealing examples. Problem is every time the sheets adjust and advance, the dealer mark-up goes right along with it. VG's are a little tougher than the lower grades, but still several seem to have surfaced in the past 18 months than you used to typically see. If one can afford a choice original VG be expected to pay 10-12k, which is strong, and one of the reasons is the grading services tend to market 01-s quarters so finding a choice VG, most likely you will be looking at a TPG 10 or a very nice 8 in which the seller will expect all the money for. As far as Fine and more importantly VF, forget it. Non-existant and prices will reflect it if they come available. There have been a few Fines that came up in the past 18 months and were priced between 16-18k. The only three VF's that I am aware of in the past 3-4 years were as follows: A PCGS-30 OGH which was actually an Xf-40 but had a "deep" scratch from face to rim and market graded by PCGS. It was ashame as the coin was truly nice had the scratch not been present, it was deep and very distracting. I flew out to view the coin and just couldnt bring my self to bid on it. It dsold to a dealer at 20,700 and later sold for a profit to a collector. The next coin was the PCGS-35 out of the Heritage Wolfe collection which again, I flew out to dallas to view prior to the auction. The coin was Vf+ detailed, but really a worked over piece that had been cleaned up and scrubbed a little. I did not like it either, mainly becuase I owned my current specimen, however it sold for near 23k if I remember. The other I believe was a PCGS-20 that Alpine had on is web-site some time back that was just barely a vf-20, not quite original, but decent . I did not view this coin in person so my comments are limited, however, It looked more Fine ish than VF.

At one time there were a few Xf's and Au-50's that popped up, and sold very quickly at strong prices. One of our board members is frantically looking for a PCGS Au-55 or 58 right now and has been for some time. I dont think price is an issue, just having an opportunity to buy one. I would have been very intrested myself in this grade range, and now I am in a position to give him a run if it comes available, However, I will not pursue it as I have no intrest in collecting any longer. (Dont worry MH, I hope it turns up for you soon??)

Back to the values, if you are planning on pursuing one, I recommend buying one in at least full rim good or better, with choice original surfaces and with eye-appeal, but be willing to accept that there is potential that a decline in value could hit this coin when a market correction occurs. IMO, at current price levels especially in lower grade levels this coin would be affected along with many others!

Jim d

MFH

"At one time there were a few Xf's and Au-50's that popped up, and sold very quickly at strong prices. One of our board members is frantically looking for a PCGS Au-55 or 58 right now and has been for some time. I dont think price is an issue, just having an opportunity to buy one. I would have been very intrested myself in this grade range, and now I am in a position to give him a run if it comes available, However, I will not pursue it as I have no intrest in collecting any longer. (Dont worry MH, I hope it turns up for you soon??)"

Jim d >>



I don't think I'll ever see an AU 58 available for sale in my lifetime; and I have been looking for more years than I care to mention. As I have had problems locating nice AU 58's in other dates, and have used lower end MS coins ( 62 thru 64 ) to fill in, I very well may have to do the same for the 01-S. The lowest grade I'd consider is an AU 53...after all my 96-S is also a 53, so it'll fit right in.

A recently offered 01-S in an PCGS AU 55 holder started its life in a slab as a PCGS AU 50, then as a NGC 55 and it crossed into the PCGS 55 holder. I didn't like the coin even as a 50 for $17K when it was first offered to me. I believe the coin doubled in price in 18 months.

I'm not overly concerned about eventually finding the "right" coin. It just may be a MS 63.

majorbigtime

The very early editions of the Red Book mention that some quarters are rare--prominent on the list was the 1901 S!

MFH

Its going to come out sooner or later.........I know that there is going to be a 1901-S Quarter in an NGC 55 holder coming up at auction next month at the Heritage Long Beach sale. No image as yet. ( They have an 1870-CC Liberty Seated Quarter's image in the place where the 01-S should be) ( Actually, its a great 70-CC in VF or so but I don't collect that series. )


Anyone have an idea what it'll go for ?

Dale & I have had this conversation before...I'm interested what the rest of this Forum thinks.

Opinions ?????????????????

ziggy29

<< <i>Its going to come out sooner or later.........I know that there is going to be a 1901-S Quarter in an NGC 55 holder coming up at auction next month at the Heritage Long Beach sale. No image as yet...

Anyone have an idea what it'll go for ? >>

Not sure, but I think body parts, bodily organs and first born children will be involved.

Dave99B

I don't follow the lofty key date AU Barber material much, but here's my sight-unseen 100% uneducated guess:

$29,850.00 (in other words, I predict it goes cheap)

Dave

Anyone else want to join in on the guess the price competition?

ARCO

I am with Dave, $30,000 for an AU55.

Tyler

majorbigtime

<< <i>The very early editions of the Red Book mention that some quarters are rare--prominent on the list was the 1901 S! >>





I believe that statement is significant. I love the "Big 3" and have amassed a few of 'em, from G4 to MS 64.

They are American classics IMO.

Barberman55

Considering the rarity of the 01-S in AU grades, I think the competition for this coin will be stiff. You certainly don't have to worry about me competing for this coin............it's way out of my league. If it's a real nice coin, I'll guess a little higher at $32,500.00. Good luck Mike!

elwood

<< <i>What I am looking for, is an opinion from the specialists, as to what the price should be. >>



In AG-VG...TOOOOOOO Much!!

I know where there is a 63 in an old rattler holder which I've been trying to buy for years without any luck. Should take another stab at it.

MFH

The image is up, at least the larger image, I should say. Its too large to post here. I'm trying to have it resized...courtesy of Dave99B...Thanks Dave !!

edited to say: I'll reserve comment on this coin until its posted here.

Barberman55

Here you go Mike............

USCGCraig

Mike,

That is an ugly coin. Look at the really deep hit on the eagle's neck. The natural rim toning on the obverse is just ugly. I say $600 tops.

Oh, it's the 01-S, not an 01-P. Well then. This coin is a beauty. Look at that sharp strike and wonderful toning. I bid $31,500 Bob Barker.

Good luck Mike.

MFH

Look behind Liberty's head...does anyone but me see "hairlines" masked by the toning ?

The obverse splotchy toning leaves me looking for still another example.

My guess: $35,000 w/ Buyers Fees.

Edited to add:

I reviewed the image of this coin in its holder. I paid close attention to the area behind the head. I can't see any hairlines. The large image made that area look odd. I stand corrected.

The splotchy obverse toning looks actually worse in the holdered image. One toning spot on the center of the head looks like it should be professionally conserved.

The reverse looks wonderful overall.

Barberman55

Mike,

I agree.....pass. I can live with the hit on the eagle's neck (overall, the reverse looks pretty good....strong strike), but the obverse is down right ugly. You're right, hairlines behind the head, ugly obverse toning, and some major scrapes in the field in front of Liberty's chin.

USCGCraig

With spending that kind of money, you should be thrilled with the coin, not over analyzing it. Me thinks you are talking yourself out of this purchase. I know you really want one in this grade but there has to be better examples out there. If this was a $300-$800 coin and as difficult to find, I would go for it. $30K, no way.

PerryHall

<< <i> .....but the obverse is down right ugly. >>



A perfect example of why original isn't always best. A good candidate for conservation.

MFH

<< <i>With spending that kind of money, you should be thrilled with the coin, not over analyzing it. Me thinks you are talking yourself out of this purchase. I know you really want one in this grade but there has to be better examples out there. If this was a $300-$800 coin and as difficult to find, I would go for it. $30K, no way. >>



Couldn't agree with you more.

I'd have to be thrilled with any $30K purchase.

RichieURich

I just had a discussion with another dealer at ANA about the 1874-CC dime. The situation with the 1901-S Barber quarter is similar. The coin in VG is around $12K, and as the grades improve the price gets even higher. There are a lot of collectors looking to complete their sets who can't afford a coin better than Good or even AG. Thus there is a huge demand for Goods and AGs for these coins; that's why the price is higher than might be expected.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

good luck finding a real nice g4, g6, or vg8.... although there are plenty of semi-problematic coins out there this coin is plagued with ag03 and po2

MFH

The NGC 55 coin sold for $29900 with the Vig. Great guesses . Wonder who bought it ?

originalisbest

I disagree - original is best!

Alas, I'm not going to be an owner of this coin at current price levels. I hope that in a market downturn I can find a decent example in G for less, but then, the problem will be finding a decent example.

Dave99B

Sold for $29,900? I predicted $29,850.00.

What do I win?

Dave

jdimmick

Mike,

I wondered if it was you who bought the coin? Going by your sig line, it looks not to have been ?

jim

MFH

If the OBV looked like the REV on that NGC 55 01-S, you're right, my Signiture Line would have changed.

Dave99B...this ain't The Price Is Right...okay, for your closest guess award
how about a few more images ?