Has anyone ever heard of this grading company?
WeekendHacker
Posts: 1,445 ✭✭
Pro grading company? Just who is this company? Are they legit or would they grade my business card if I sent it in?
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<< <i>Stay Away from PRO! About five years ago or so, when Ebay first came about, I bought a 1955 topps-All-American Knute Rockne PRO 9 for $175.00 without researching the company. The auction was up in 2 minutes, and the price could not be passed up..so of course I bid and won it. After the auction ended, I started researching this grading company that I never heard of. After about 10 minutes of searching the web, I was sick to my stomach! Stories of trimming, and other card doctoring by PRO sickened me. I wanted to not pay for the card, but I did not want to get a negative feedback. When I got the card, it appeared that it could have been trimmed as well. I have several other graded all-americans that have almost the exact same centering, so it is very difficult to tell without cracking it out of the case. I sent the card into SGC with a minimum grade to crack set at a SGC 84 (7.) They said that they could not tell without cracking the case either. I have tried measuring it...I have used a strong magnifier...still can't tell for sure. So years later, I have a sharp looking Rockne in an ugly PRO 9 holder. I have been so tempted to gamble again and crack it open and submit to SGC or PSA to see if trimmed or legit, but I figure the card has some value in a 9 holder than unslabbed and possibly trimmed. >>
Well, there's the thing. By keeping it in a PRO holder you're essentially saying that one day you may try to pawn it off on an unsuspecting buyer who doesn't understand the nuances of the card grading business, just as you yourself did not when you first bought this card. If doing this would be acceptable to you (I'm not going to get into a moral argument here) then you might as well crack it and submit it, since it 'might' (har har) come back in a PSA or SGC holder, and even if it doesn't the price you could get for it raw on Ebay (again, probably from someone who doesn't know any better) would be about the same as what you would get for it in a PRO 9 holder. In sum-- if you're willing to recirculate this card in the hobby there's no compelling reason NOT to crack it out.
Bosox1976
<< <i>Well, there's the thing. By keeping it in a PRO holder you're essentially saying that one day you may try to pawn it off on an unsuspecting buyer who doesn't understand the nuances of the card grading business, just as you yourself did not when you first bought this card. If doing this would be acceptable to you (I'm not going to get into a moral argument here) then you might as well crack it and submit it, since it 'might' (har har) come back in a PSA or SGC holder, and even if it doesn't the price you could get for it raw on Ebay (again, probably from someone who doesn't know any better) would be about the same as what you would get for it in a PRO 9 holder. In sum-- if you're willing to recirculate this card in the hobby there's no compelling reason NOT to crack it out. >>
I think we need to keep ethics in mind at all times when selling and/or trading cards! Crack it and if it is trimmed and can not be graded by one of recognized ethical grading companies, then put it away and end the cycle! Do not pass your mistake on to another!
If I was interested in recirculating a bogus card, and ripping off somebody, I would have done that already. I have kept the card in my collection for almost 5 years now. Right now there is no guarantee that the card has or has not been trimmed, but since it is holdered and graded it has a value to some people. I see PRO cards sell all the time on ebay.....I don't believe all PRO buyers are novice collectors, but those who are willing to pay a much lower price (than other card grading company) that the card might be in fact be "real" and undoctored. I would call them gamblers...willing to pay a much lower price, but taking a risk. I took the time to warn a possible suspecting PRO buyer of my story, I wasn't trying to sell the card to him. I have heard of collectors who have bought PRO graded cards and crossed over to SGC and PSA for a high grade....unfortunately I have heard so many more have the card come back trimmed. Would I buy a PRO card again...no way!
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If you're so worried that it's altered, I guess, if you wanted to go to the "dark side", you could submit it back to Pro. Maybe they'll upgrade it to a 10.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
<< <i>Boo potts-
If I was interested in recirculating a bogus card, and ripping off somebody, I would have done that already. I have kept the card in my collection for almost 5 years now. Right now there is no guarantee that the card has or has not been trimmed, but since it is holdered and graded it has a value to some people. I see PRO cards sell all the time on ebay.....I don't believe all PRO buyers are novice collectors, but those who are willing to pay a much lower price (than other card grading company) that the card might be in fact be "real" and undoctored. I would call them gamblers...willing to pay a much lower price, but taking a risk. I took the time to warn a possible suspecting PRO buyer of my story, I wasn't trying to sell the card to him. I have heard of collectors who have bought PRO graded cards and crossed over to SGC and PSA for a high grade....unfortunately I have heard so many more have the card come back trimmed. Would I buy a PRO card again...no way! >>
My main point is that there's no sense in keeping it in it's current holder. If you reread my original post you'll see the basis for my argument. And, like Poppie said, if your primary interest is in NOT recirculating bogus cards then you should crack it and resubmit it if only to get a final opinion on it. Then, if it comes back trimmed you can put it on Ebay with the disclaimer that the card wasn't holdered by PSA.
Look-- Like I said I'm not going to get into a debate here about the moral obligations of sports card enthusiasts. Do what you want to do. Outside of trimming the card yourself (or knowing for a fact that the card was trimmed) and selling it raw as an unaltered card I think there's a lot of grey area in matters like these. Heck, I'm not even sure I'm 'against' guys doctoring cards and trying to slide them past PSA. But be clear and honest with yourself about the reasons why you choose a particular course of action, because like I said-- if your primary interest is to find out if it's trimmed, and then deal with the card accordingly, then there's one very easy way to find out.
<< <i>i would rather have something raw than in a gem or pro holder. maybe thats just me. >>
And me. In addition AGS overgrades. Well at least they did when they had packs of AGS cards you could buy at Target.
everyone talks about it, after all these years, I'd like to get some-one add some technical insight please.
I'm willing to bet it ain't that easy or common.
<< <i>with all the discussion of trimming...how is it done?
everyone talks about it, after all these years, I'd like to get some-one add some technical insight please.
I'm willing to bet it ain't that easy or common. >>
Very easy and very common. Assuming the card is over sized you can just put it on a rototrim at your local Kinko's and nobody will be able to tell (so long as the card is post war), as the rototrim cut looks exactly the same as the cut Topps used in the factory on all cardboard cards. If you're a real neanderthal you can use an X-Acto knife, but that's fairly easy to detect and I doubt anyone will any hobby savvy is dumb enough to use this method now.
Also, some companies-- like GEM- admit on their website that they'll slab anything so long as it's within 3 millimetes of factory size (that's about 1/8 of an inch, for those of you scoring at home). You give a guy 1/8 of an inch leeway and he can do just about anything he wants to a card if he has any clue what he's doing.
<< <i>i would rather have something raw than in a gem or pro holder. maybe thats just me. >>
When it's raw there's a chance it's not altered. When it's in a rogue holder the odds that it isn't trimmed, pressed, bleached, etc. are essentially zero (assuming the card is an expensive one).
There are a few ( 3 or 4 ) cards in my collection which have been very, very slightly trimmed ( not by me ), and a couple of others which have other alterations such as pressing of the corners. I collect Yankee cards, have no intention on selling them, and they look great for the purpose of displaying and general enjoyment. Should the day arrive where I am in dire need of money and have to sell, a simple, honest disclaimer revealing the cards shortcomings ( no pun intended ) would do just fine for me, as I'm sure there would be others willing to add them to their ungraded collections too.
-- Yogi Berra
Some of these cutters aint cheap either - can list as high as a grand!
And some have reported problems with getting "square" cuts - tho it does cut sharp.
Then there's all kinds of lasers that cut paper and other materials.
If there's enough money in trimming and resubmitting - it will be done and rumored that it is being done - modern cards that are numbered and signed and upgraded will reap serious bucks!
Also, they now have "laser guided" exacto knives and the laser has been added to guillotine type cutters also.
mike