World coin price increases.

cladking

It's no secret that a lot of world coin prices have been soaring for years.

Going through my low value unc moderns I was really surprised to see just how much
the increases have been. I do this every few years to pull out better pieces that warrant
better security in the safety deposit box. Usually I'll wait until the new Krause is in hand
but am getting a little jump in order to reacquaint myself with this "junk" a little. The sur-
prising thing isn't so much that catalog prices have jumped an average of about three fold
on this stuff as much as the increase in what it will actually bring. When I got it most of these
could be purchased for ten to twenty five percent of catalog and selling was very problemat-
ical. Now you can get fifty to hundred percent of catalog in many cases so the effective in-
crease is 5 to 10 fold. Some of the typical examples would be something like a '57 Greek
1D in slider unc. The coin was priced at $10 as an unc by the last dealer who sold it. I acquired
it in a trade for about $1 catalog value. I probably had almost nothing in what I traded. Today
this lists for $10 in XF and is really underpriced. It would probably bring $10 on ebay. I never
did find a true unc of this date.

I'm just curious if this experience is in line with what others are finding in the market and with
what you collect. I've been concentrating on the cu/ ni in unc or the best grade I can find. The
coins made from about 1946 to the mid-'80's have gotten most of my attention but I do like some
earlier and later and will look at any of the base metals.

ROBERTB

The world coin market has certainly become more competitive. Many more world issues are being slabbed than at any time before also. Prices have been rising steadily. I believe prices are rising due to specialists like myself who have become deicated to our particular field. We tend to clamp on like pitbulls when our material comes around and will bid ourselves into living under an overpass. Some coins that we world coin specialists seek only come to auction every so many years or decades. There doesn't seem to be the turn around of material in world coins like there is in US coins. Further, I believe as other countries increase their own economic prosperity, their citizens begin to seek the coinage of their home countries. Thus, they too compete with the big buyers of western nations. This too causes price increases. I have heard of this factor greatly increasing the values of Russian and Soviet coinage. Just my 2 cents. Let me also say, that I'm happy I came to the darkside when I did and I can still find some great deals. In about ten years I think many world coin specialties will easily rival US coins in demand and value. It's inevitable. Look at it this way. If you're a world coin collector, you can buy many mint state issues from the 1700's and 1800's for sometimes under $200 or even less, and often. Name me one US coin that is available mintstate for $200. Ok, how about $2000? Ok, $20,000? Ok, maybe $200,000. That sounds possible.

secondrepublic

I agree with both of the comments. In my area of specialization, Polish coins from the 1920s and 30s, the prices have gone through the roof in just the past three years or so. But it's all relative. A Polish pattern coin from 1934 with a mintage of 100 pieces for example, a rare coin in top condition that "everyone wants," might sell for five thousand dollars. Some will sell for even less, maybe two or three thousand. Compare that to American coinage and the price differences are still enormous. There are many, many American coins in the $100,000+ price range. In Polish coins, I don't know if there are any like that, or if there are (like the massive gold 50 and 100 ducat coins from the 1600s), they haven't come up at auction recently so who knows what they would sell for.

At the Dmitry Markov auction a year or two ago, an extremely "dealbreaker" rare Russian coin sold for around $500,000, which I believe was an all time record (or close to it) for a world coin. That's a lot of money, but the Russians are flush with oil money, and a lot of American coins - probably a dozen or more - have sold for a lot more than that. So, I take all these increases with a grain of salt. The starting price point is much lower for most world coins, and in some countries there isn't a tradition of coin collecting or a strong collector base. So a coin might be rare, but it won't go up in value until people start getting interested in it. It's interesting but not surprising that in countries like Russia and Poland the prices have gone up a lot. These are countries which for a long time weren't free and where the history was suppressed, but where the people are very patriotic. So now that there's freedom (in Poland, at least, much less so in Russia) and people have money, they collect coins from their history.

The other consideration is that the US dollar has been declining against other major currencies. So owing good foreign coins is also a good hedge against currency fluctuation, particularly where the "market price" for these coins is largely set in the home country. The Polish coins I bought when $1 = 4 Polish zlotys are now worth considerably more just because of the decline of the dollar to about 3.1 zlotys.

291fifth

The withdrawal of pre-euro coins in many countries will probably result in unexpected scarcities some years down the raod.

SYRACUSIAN

Some of the typical examples would be something like a '57 Greek 1D in slider unc.
The coin was priced at $10 as an unc by the last dealer who sold it.. I acquired
it in a trade for about $1 catalog value. I probably had almost nothing in what I traded. Today
this lists for $10 in XF and is really underpriced. It would probably bring $10 on ebay. I never
did find a true unc of this date.



That's because you never paid attention to some coins I sold during the past two years. I believe a 1959 1 dr Anacs MS63 was my first memorable ebay sale at $145, that was followed by many slabbed Greek cu-ni coins of that era, bringing outsanting results, in the $200-$300 area for more common coins, to $400-500 for the more rare ones. There's been a readjustment ever since, the market was flooded by BU 1954-62 coins that were previously hidden, and more difficult to obtain than 1868-1883 coins. Although I was lucky to make multiple three figure scores in every one I sold, slabbed of course, this Greek 1954-62 era is the prime example of readjustment of prices of a section that had exploded but has now settled.Prime examples bring about half of what they brought 8 months ago, but still serious money.

AuldFartte

I have to say that, in general terms, the price increases since I started on Darkside stuff are quite noticeable - enough so that it has begun to limit the quantity of coins I purchase, and it has made me much more selective.

My area of "true love" is quality British Victorian, and some of those increases are even higher than the 3-to-5-fold range.

FilamCoins

In my area, prices have generally doubled or tripled in the 5 years I've been collecting, and for exceptionally quality, as Syracusian said, up to ten times since year 2000.

cladking

Thanks for all the input guys. I've really lost touch with most of these markets in
the last ten years and this place is about my only exposure to information.

I did go back and look some more and see that my first post was in error. I was
primarily looking at countries that had done well in the 2005 Krause so my results
were skewed by this. Many countries have not been updated in years and still
don't have much demand for the later coins and these have not done nearly so
well.

Syracusian mentions the Swiss and this is one country I'm very deep in and has
very nominal increases. I know that the cu/ ni francs are selling for more than
Krause lists but these prices still aren't very high.

I guess the point stands though that world coins have been enjoying phenomenal
price increases.

wybrit

The British market is hot for top end pieces and, ironically, junk grade material. The market for lesser grades has been pretty weak, except for very rare material. One only has to see Colin Cooke's recent auction to know just how insane prices can be.

Interestingly, I noticed some fairly weak prices for some of the items at the Goldberg auction. An 1869 florin went for what I thought was a song (I was the underbidder at a very low amount ;( ). Cu-Ni coinage has been very weak - supposedly key dates have done very poorly, even in high grade. This amazes me, because I have found many of the dates very difficult to obtain.

One of the problems with the ebay market for British material is exposure. It sells pretty well if listed on ebay.co.uk by local sellers, but many buyers there may not select "Worldwide" in the dropdown box, or ven know it is there. The differences in categories betwen the US and UK is also a contributor to the problem.

coinkat

At the moment, I don't know what to make of the British market... Farthings in high grade seem to be very hot... not sure about Crowns even though high end examples from Charles II through George II are rarely offered.