Old theme - buy raw and get burned - check out this collection
lava
Posts: 3,286 ✭✭✭
The "Hummingbird Collection" (there are too many names for collections) is now for sale at David Lawrence. It appears the owner bought a bunch of raw stuff, and he could not sell it, and I suspect DL suggested that everything raw be sent to ANACS, and the results are painful. One coin alone in the collection has four problems noted on the slab. I supect the owner saw some add in CW and bought this stuff sight unseen, for a lofty grade level, and paid book value, only to learn now that these coins were not what they were described as being.
Link to DL's Hummingbird Collection
Link to DL's Hummingbird Collection
I brake for ear bars.
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I don't waste my time trying to get a great deal or try to "rip" anyone. If I want it and I can afford it, then I buy it and its usually at a hefty price.
When it comes time to sell I think I will do better by buying top quality at a good price than I would by trying to buy a tired coin at a rock bottom price.
I don't know if that is what this consigner did but those coins look pretty sad for what they are.
Thats my take on it anyway
<< <i>The "Hummingbird Collection" (there are too many names for collections) >>
Well, that does sound better than the I Got Screwed Collection.
Russ, NCNE
The type dealers that did this to this person were THE reason I joined the ANA , took all the courses long before becoming involved in certified coins, building collections and Registry sets for myself as well as private clientele.
These are the very dealers that helped make PCGS and other well respected tpgs godsends and the huge success that they are today. For way too long way too many innocent people were fleeced by such hooligans.
Luckily for me, I stopped and went down the right path before being made to learn very costly lessons. How very, very sad indeed.
Man, that was actually painful.
To look thru these actually gave me a headache. I hope whoever did this to this person gets their just reward.
<< <i>This is precisely why these sorts of sellers should not only be forever expelled from the ANA, should they happen to be members, but should also be prosecuted to the fullest extent allowable by Law as this is truly Fraudulant and deceptive advertising. It is preying upon trusting souls that do not have Numismatic experience ... outright Theft. For Coin World to permit such dealers as one ex ANA member that comes to mind, to continue to sell these type overgraded raw wares after the fact, should make them therefore culpable and equally as libel for damages.
The type dealers that did this to this person were THE reason I joined the ANA , took all the courses long before becoming involved in certified coins, building collections and Registry sets for myself as well as private clientele.
These are the very dealers that helped make PCGS and other well respected tpgs godsends and the huge success that they are today. For way too long way too many innocent people were fleeced by such hooligans.
Luckily for me, I stopped and went down the right path before being made to learn very costly lessons. How very, very sad indeed.
Stop for a second. Aren't you jumping to conclusions? How do you know the owner of the collection didn't knowingly go out any buy problem coins? They are certainly cheaper now, aren't they? Maybe he wanted to have a lot of examples of coins, but couldn't afford problem-free coins. There are certainly plenty of coins that I can't afford but would buy an inexpensive problem coin in a heart beat. Is it possible that he bought out of a catalog sight unseen? Yep. But you are really jumping to conclusions without any facts.
<< <i>
<< <i>This is precisely why these sorts of sellers should not only be forever expelled from the ANA, should they happen to be members, but should also be prosecuted to the fullest extent allowable by Law as this is truly Fraudulant and deceptive advertising. It is preying upon trusting souls that do not have Numismatic experience ... outright Theft. For Coin World to permit such dealers as one ex ANA member that comes to mind, to continue to sell these type overgraded raw wares after the fact, should make them therefore culpable and equally as libel for damages.
The type dealers that did this to this person were THE reason I joined the ANA , took all the courses long before becoming involved in certified coins, building collections and Registry sets for myself as well as private clientele.
These are the very dealers that helped make PCGS and other well respected tpgs godsends and the huge success that they are today. For way too long way too many innocent people were fleeced by such hooligans.
Luckily for me, I stopped and went down the right path before being made to learn very costly lessons. How very, very sad indeed.
Stop for a second. Aren't you jumping to conclusions? How do you know the owner of the collection didn't knowingly go out any buy problem coins? They are certainly cheaper now, aren't they? Maybe he wanted to have a lot of examples of coins, but couldn't afford problem-free coins. There are certainly plenty of coins that I can't afford but would buy an inexpensive problem coin in a heart beat. Is it possible that he bought out of a catalog sight unseen? Yep. But you are really jumping to conclusions without any facts. >>
You are right, I do not know for a fact that the owner of "The Hummingbird Collection" got screwed on buying this collection of stuff, but I have a strong suspicion, since that is how most of these "collections" get assembled. Speaking first hand, I recall from my greener days buying a bunch of raw half cents from a CW add by J.P.Sarosi. I sent them all to ANACS for grading. Every coin came back graded lower than advertised, and nearly all of them had problems noted on the slabs (none of which were disclosed in CW). Taking into account the net grades, I grossly overpaid, and Mr. J.P. Sarosi I suspect laughed all the way to the bank. He's probably still laughing. I sense that the owner of "The Hummingbird Collection" suffered a similar fate. You are correct, however, that I don't know that to be true.
They might be correct and accurate we don't know.....
The collector might just have bad taste in coins and he is liquidating his crap.....
Stop for a second. Aren't you jumping to conclusions? How do you know the owner of the collection didn't knowingly go out any buy problem coins? They are certainly cheaper now, aren't they? Maybe he wanted to have a lot of examples of coins, but couldn't afford problem-free coins. There are certainly plenty of coins that I can't afford but would buy an inexpensive problem coin in a heart beat. Is it possible that he bought out of a catalog sight unseen? Yep. But you are really jumping to conclusions without any facts.
Precisely. Look at the Jules Reiver collection that was sold by Heritage in January. Many, many coins were placed in NCS holders for problems. Jules collected the coins that he liked for the variety, eye appeal and, more importantly, value. He didn't care about TPG's. He cared about his coins and bought what made sense at the time. While it's hard to compare the Hummingbird Collection to the Reiver collection, there is a loose parallel.
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I will say this, it takes an educated collector/buyer to pick up on problems and it takes an expert collector/buyer to price those problems correctly. I hope that was the case but I wouldn't bet on it.
Of course, we will never know for sure...
Jerry
The reality is that there are just as many problem coins (at least for the grade) being sold in slabs as there are raw. People just don't want to admit it because then they might actually have to learn something about coins rather than just looking at the lable.
<< <i>The biggest wrong conclusion which is being jumped to in this thread is the idea that Humingbird was burned only because he bought raw. In actual fact he was just as likely to get burned buying certified (Yes, EVEN those from "respected" companies whose initials start with P, N, or A) as he would have been buying raw. Dealers who misrepresent raw coins will also misrepresent slabbed ones--probably even faster, because now they can say," It was graded by XYZ therefore it can't have any problems.
The reality is that there are just as many problem coins (at least for the grade) being sold in slabs as there are raw. People just don't want to admit it because then they might actually have to learn something about coins rather than just looking at the lable. >>
Wow. Great post. Couldn't have said it better myself.
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<< <i>
<< <i>The biggest wrong conclusion which is being jumped to in this thread is the idea that Humingbird was burned only because he bought raw. In actual fact he was just as likely to get burned buying certified (Yes, EVEN those from "respected" companies whose initials start with P, N, or A) as he would have been buying raw. Dealers who misrepresent raw coins will also misrepresent slabbed ones--probably even faster, because now they can say," It was graded by XYZ therefore it can't have any problems.
The reality is that there are just as many problem coins (at least for the grade) being sold in slabs as there are raw. People just don't want to admit it because then they might actually have to learn something about coins rather than just looking at the lable. >>
Wow. Great post. Couldn't have said it better myself. >>
Yah, theoretically a great point, but that just proves to me you did not actually go and look at The Hummingbird Collection. PCGS and NGC I don't think would have graded a lot of these coins. ANACS has done so, apparently only recently, because it net grades coins. So yes, TPGs make mistakes, but I seriosuly doubt they would have mistaken the stuff in THE HUMMINGBIRD COLLECTION "for genuine coin of the realm," to borrow from The Maltese Falcon.
This is true- and I HATE that pcgs and ngc won't label problems....
talk about "...blued, screwed, and tattooed..."
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<< <i>One coin alone in the collection has four problems noted on the slab. I supect the owner saw some add in CW and bought this stuff sight unseen, for a lofty grade level, and paid book value, only to learn now that these coins were not what they were described as being. >>
If that is true could it be described as paying "stupid money for stupid money"?
I think you "COINED" a phrase!
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