Question about stolen mail
Robeson
Posts: 272
My mail lady came to my door today and asked if I found all the packages that she left for me? She told me that she left the packages on top of a large box from UPS. I told her that the porch was empty when I got home. I asked what I could do and she told me that none of the packages had insurance, so it was my problem. I live on a busy street with a high school at the end so I get a lot of kids walking past.
I checked with the sellers and none of the 4 shipped with a delivery confirmation. One shipped a package worth about $35.00 through UPS. The other three were a combined value of about $89.00. I paid by Paypal with a credit card. The question I have is this, Is it fair to file a claim with Paypal for a refund? Will Paypal question 3 or 4 claims opened at the same time? I know they were delivered to my house, but I never received. Why should I be out $130.00? I can't afford to just write that much off as a loss.
Thanks for any advice or opinions.
Scott
I checked with the sellers and none of the 4 shipped with a delivery confirmation. One shipped a package worth about $35.00 through UPS. The other three were a combined value of about $89.00. I paid by Paypal with a credit card. The question I have is this, Is it fair to file a claim with Paypal for a refund? Will Paypal question 3 or 4 claims opened at the same time? I know they were delivered to my house, but I never received. Why should I be out $130.00? I can't afford to just write that much off as a loss.
Thanks for any advice or opinions.
Scott
0
Comments
If you have a mailbox at the curb you are most likely on a rural route, if the box is on your house or at your door you would be a city delivery. Either way you can request that any parcels that don't fit your mailbox are brought back to the post office and a notice 3849 left for you or if you have an enclosed porch or something similar you can ask the carrier to leave the parcels in there. I had a volume ebay buyer who built a box and gave me the key and that worked great.
Call your postmaster and ask what they can do for you. If the parcels were left in a very visible area and you can prove what was delivered I would think they would be responsible. Make sure you tell him that she left them "on top of a UPS box" and that she said it was your problem. Her screw-up would not be your problem. It's very easy for you to prove the exact value of the lost/stolen parcels.
To give your postmaster a headache you can complain at www.usps.com or by calling 1-800-ask-usps.
Toactually talk to the PM and try to get it fixed without him getting an official complaint go to www.usps.com, click on locate a post office, type in your zip code, and then click on the little link that says "more info". That link has the local number to call.
I found these online, maybe they can help you.
<< <i>not this this was the seller's fault but you could probably go the route of a paypal dispute and/or go thru your credit card. regardless of if the package was left by the carrier or not paypal will require an online d/c number. >>
Thats wrong. I would consider that stealing. The seller did his job, they were delivered. Now because the guy has a thief for a neighbor you want him to blame the seller?
He should go after the post office/carrier for reimbursement. They failed at their job according to their own rules.
<< <i>
<< <i>not this this was the seller's fault but you could probably go the route of a paypal dispute and/or go thru your credit card. regardless of if the package was left by the carrier or not paypal will require an online d/c number. >>
Thats wrong. I would consider that stealing. The seller did his job, they were delivered. Now because the guy has a thief for a neighbor you want him to blame the seller?
He should go after the post office/carrier for reimbursement. They failed at their job according to their own rules. >>
-- Yogi Berra
Fact - buyer paid thru Paypal with a credit card for the packages.
Fact - Paypal REQUIRES SELLER'S to show proof of delivery (i.e. delivery confirmation) if requested by the buyer.
Fact - none of the packages were sent with delivery confirmation.
You can contact the "dispute center" from the paypal website, and report that you did not receive any packages.
Fact - if the sellers can not provide a d.c. number, Paypal WILL find in your favor.....hands down, no questions asked.
I AM NOT getting into the ethics, whose fault this was, etc etc etc. I also don't know if it's fair or not ---- that's just the way the system is set up.
But as a seller, this is one reason why I ALWAYS will spend the extra 0.55 cents and put delivery confirmation on a package.
Good Luck
Dal
James
<< <i>OK - here's my take.
Fact - buyer paid thru Paypal with a credit card for the packages.
Fact - Paypal REQUIRES SELLER'S to show proof of delivery (i.e. delivery confirmation) if requested by the buyer.
Fact - none of the packages were sent with delivery confirmation.
You can contact the "dispute center" from the paypal website, and report that you did not receive any packages.
Fact - if the sellers can not provide a d.c. number, Paypal WILL find in your favor.....hands down, no questions asked.
I AM NOT getting into the ethics, whose fault this was, etc etc etc. I also don't know if it's fair or not ---- that's just the way the system is set up.
But as a seller, this is one reason why I ALWAYS will spend the extra 0.55 cents and put delivery confirmation on a package.
Good Luck
Dal >>
I always spend it too, but if he files a claim he's stealing. I don't lie and don't steal, and I'm certainly not going to steal from 4 people for a total of just over $100. There's no reason to steal here.
I work at the post office. The post office is clearly in the wrong here, and should reimburse him. He has a copy of their own regulations straight from the carrier's handbook. They didn't do what they were supposed to, and they are responsible.
At some offices they are very firm about leaving parcels. At others they don't give it a second thought. If I'm delivering at lakefront property with million dollar homes, I'm ok with leaving a package in the garage or on the BACK porch as long as it's covered. I would never leave a package on the front porch. It's just stupid, even dumber than shipping without delivery confirmation.
<< <i>I could never figure out why we have to pay for insurance on items we ship. We are basically paying UPS or the USPS extra to make sure they do the job they are supposed to do in the first place, that is to make sure your packages are delivered and arrive in good condition.
James >>
You will be even more confused if you try to collect a claim.
I hate the thought of having to rent a PO Box to keep my mail safe. Another expense and the time spent each day going to get my mail. Many sellers will not ship to PO Boxes. How is that handled? I came home today to find an overfilled mailbox with a package containing unfolded Hostess boxes marked "DO NOT BEND" which was folded in half, 2 priority boxes leaning against the screen door and a large box from UPS in the bushes with my front poorch mat laying on top of it. I guess they think they are hiding it with the mat, but it is the same as putting a banner pointing at it.
One of the sellers told me today that the package went out on the 15th and to wait till the end of the weekend. If nothing shows up, he will refund or replace if he has in stock. Another gave me a tracking # that shows being delivered on the 17th at 3:13pm. Is a tracking number proof of delivery?
I understand that it is not the fault of the sellers, 3 of them shipped within 3 days of my payment. I do not want them to be out any money. I guess I feel when someone charges $9.85 to ship a wax box, they should include D/C or possibly insurance for their own protection. I am very lucky to have a seller willing to replace. That at least saves me $28.00. I do not feel it is my fault either. I received many PM's telling me to just eat the loss and learn from my mistakes. Some of the members here can take a loss of a $100 alot easier than others. I am one of the collectors that is collecting on a very limited budget.
My main feeling is that I use Paypal and pay by credit card for the protection that they offer the buyer. Why use it if I am unable to use the benefits that they offer for using their service. Some do not not think it is fair to the seller, but as Dallas88 pointed out, that is the way the system is set up.
It is hard to believe that I do this because I have fun and enjoy baseball cards. This is just one of the many problems caused by Ebay. I should possibly look into anther hobby. Kind of a shame to give up on something I love.
Thanks for letting me share a few thoughts and feelings.
Scott
<< <i>Thank you very much for posting the regulations on leaving packages. That is very interesting to read. I have a bad feeling that if I cause problems for my carrier, that I might have even more problems receiving my mail. My next door neighbor complained about her and his mail is now delivered to all neighbors in the area.
<< <i>
Your neighbor should be calling the post office every time it happens. Ask to speak to the Postmaster or Station Manager. It sounds like you have a lazy/nasty carrier. There's lots of them, as a sub I used to have to clean up after one. If enough misdeliveries get reported she'll be written up, then more misdeliveries get her a vacation, and enough misdeliveries get her a new place to drive to work. If she's that bad to you and your neighbor, she's probably like that to everybody, and the post office is better without her.
<< <i>I hate the thought of having to rent a PO Box to keep my mail safe. Another expense and the time spent each day going to get my mail. Many sellers will not ship to PO Boxes. How is that handled?I came home today to find an overfilled mailbox with a package containing unfolded Hostess boxes marked "DO NOT BEND" which was folded in half, 2 priority boxes leaning against the screen door and a large box from UPS in the bushes with my front poorch mat laying on top of it. I guess they think they are hiding it with the mat, but it is the same as putting a banner pointing at it. >>
Sellers who don't want PO Boxes mostly ship UPS, the post office employees get along great with the ups guys but management doesn't like the brown truck pulling in.
Again you need to be talking to the Postmaster or Station Manager. Explain your concerns, and maybe give them a hint that you might have to start shipping exclusively with UPS.
<< <i>One of the sellers told me today that the package went out on the 15th and to wait till the end of the weekend. If nothing shows up, he will refund or replace if he has in stock. Another gave me a tracking # that shows being delivered on the 17th at 3:13pm. Is a tracking number proof of delivery? >>
Tracking number showing delivery = your carrier scanned the bar code as delivered. Might have been delivered to you and stolen, might have been delivered to a neighbor.
<< <i>I understand that it is not the fault of the sellers, 3 of them shipped within 3 days of my payment. I do not want them to be out any money. I guess I feel when someone charges $9.85 to ship a wax box, they should include D/C or possibly insurance for their own protection. I am very lucky to have a seller willing to replace. That at least saves me $28.00. I do not feel it is my fault either. I received many PM's telling me to just eat the loss and learn from my mistakes. Some of the members here can take a loss of a $100 alot easier than others. I am one of the collectors that is collecting on a very limited budget.
My main feeling is that I use Paypal and pay by credit card for the protection that they offer the buyer. Why use it if I am unable to use the benefits that they offer for using their service. Some do not not think it is fair to the seller, but as Dallas88 pointed out, that is the way the system is set up. >>
Paypal is set up to protect you against crooked sellers. It's not there to protect you from a bad mailman or a neighbor kid who is using you as the card shop.
Call your post office. Talk to the PM and ask for a meeting. Take your bent up package that says do not bend. Take a printout of the paypal payments for the stuff you didn't get. Take the delivery confirmation tracking # for the one you asked about. Take a printout of the employee handbook that I found on the internet, don't tell them where you got it please. Ask him for reimbursement for lost/missing/damaged items. If he doesn't want to, or if he blames you for not getting them insured, ask him for the name/phone number of the local POOM (rhymes with BOOM for a reason). If he doesn't want to give that up, PM me your zip code and I'll try to help.
If you can prove she is doing that then you can probaly cause her to lose her job. That could be viewed as tampering with the mail which is a crime.
As far as claiming on Paypal. You have no proof what was delivered or not. It is the sellers job to make sure that you get the item. Insurance is for their protection. They did not follow the rules and have no proof you ever got the items.
Is a tracking number proof of delivery?
Yes that does prove delivery in the eyes of Paypal. In order for the seller to be protected the item must showed delivered not just sent.
<< <i>That is very interesting to read. I have a bad feeling that if I cause problems for my carrier, that I might have even more problems receiving my mail. My next door neighbor complained about her and his mail is now delivered to all neighbors in the area.
If you can prove she is doing that then you can probaly cause her to lose her job. That could be viewed as tampering with the mail which is a crime.
Is a tracking number proof of delivery?
Yes that does prove delivery in the eyes of Paypal. In order for the seller to be protected the item must showed delivered not just sent. >>
It's hard to fire a carrier once they are past probation. One of my friends was stealing (unknown to me) money from the pop fund, stamps from the drawer, cash from the drawer, all while he was a clerk for 25+ years. He transferred to carrier and they suspected he was stealing, finally they sent a target envelope with a walmart gift card, and another with cash showing. He was 7 months from retiring with a full pension. They caught him with the $ in his pocket with the same serial #, and they had him on video tape using that card at walmart. He ended up taking leave without pay and then retiring with full pension.
She can get fired if her PM is fed up with her and documents everything. It's a job to get one fired.
The bad thing about tracking #s is that it all depends on if the carrier scans it and delivers it to the right house. To do it right paypal should insist on a copy of the shipping receipt with the buyer's address and the shipping paid. Less people would file for fake credits, and it would take the burden from the seller. If the buyer wants insurance, and something goes wrong, the shipper who screwed up would be liable. If the buyer trusts UPS or USPS and wants to save the $$ the seller shouldn't be penalized.
All that said I DC everything and Insure everything over $50. Everything I sell over $250 goes registered mail and I pay for shipping.
Am I the only one bothered by this statement? She wanted to make sure he got the packages, yet she was concerned? Why did she leave them in the first place?
Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12
Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
Also for insurance, that means that the Post Office will insure an item while it is in their possession. Correct? That means if it is stolen after they deliver it, it won't be covered.
This was sold through Naxcom, so I need to check the policies.
The reason why Paypal does not accept the receipt is because they can be faked and doctored easily so can the actual tracking number if somoene is really shady. All the DC shows Paypal is the item was delivered to an address in a certain zip code. What stops a seller from sending an item to the Chamber of Commerce or something similiar in that zip with DC and then saying it was that item. Nothing. The postal receipts show only the zip code nothing else.
In the end though it is the seller who contracted with the USPS to deliver the item if insurance was not taken the seller assumes all legal liabilities to make sure the buyer gets the item. Insurance is for the sellers protection not the buyers. Some states have laws that clearly define this New York is one. I would file with Paypal.
<< <i>For delivery confirmation, do they actually scan it at the door or at the local post office? A buyer just sent me a note that the USPS site says the package was delivered on 5/30, but he did not receive it.
Also for insurance, that means that the Post Office will insure an item while it is in their possession. Correct? That means if it is stolen after they deliver it, it won't be covered.
This was sold through Naxcom, so I need to check the policies. >>
I scan delivery confirmation on small parcels just before I put them in the mailbox, and on larger ones where I have to get out of the truck I scan them and leave the scanner in the truck. If it gets delivered I enter "delivered" and if not it gets "attempted" when I get back to the truck. Express mail if it is close to the free cutoff time I scan as attempted when I get to the driveway. I'm not going to be late while I wait for the dog to make his way across the driveway or while somebody gets dressed to answer the door.
The post office coveres signature insured (over $50) until you sign for it. If it appears damaged point it out to the carrier and save every piece of packaging. You'll need it.
If under $50 and stolen you're SOL. No way to prove you don't have it.
Some lazy carriers scan everything before they load the truck. Since I don't have any way of seeing what might happen that day I just wait till I get there.
My clerks scan registered mail only unless you're picking it up at the window. They don't scan arrived at the post office ever.
The parcel that is scanned delivered and hasn't arrived was misdelivered or somebody cheated.