Better ebay scam,It just happened to me , credit card charge back"READ THE THREAD

mojoman

on the us coin forum now, here is the low down, buyer pays with credit card, gets coin leaves feedback all is fine 3 1/2 months later he says he did not authuorrize it, keeps the coin and paypal takes it out of your account( my was frozen because i did not have 47.50 in there) I am now to the good because buyers paid fast, but i have to wait 10 days at the most to get a answer if they will allow it or not

here it is

sorry ,wrong thread but I need help

I just had my paypal account FROZEN because a bad buyer said he did not authorize the charge to his card?

I am having a huge problem with paypal now,I had a buyer who won over 125.00 worth of coins, he paid for 1 (47.50) did not pay for the other 2 ? no reason ,he gave positive feedback for the one he won, i gave him positive for all 3 , I said he was unable to complete the transaction due to unexpected bills, that was in december, now paypal has a charge back for the item he paid for and recevied he said payment was unauthorized by him? now my account is frozen and every payment goes towards the charge back and he still has the coin!!!!!,I replied and said he was trying to pull a scam and I am still waiting....waiting...... I can not belive they can do this, Has anyone every had that happen to them? what can I do? any help is appreciated,MoJo

here is his paypal commit
Total: $47.50 USD


Note:Thank You and God Bless You for your patience and kindness. You are one of the super nice people God put on Earth to counter the corruptness going on out there in the world-keep uo the good Work. Blessed be You by God. Bob

but this what i did not notice in the paypal transaction

Payment From:
Rob Matthews (The sender of this payment is Unverified)
Buyer's ID:
magiccoinsmagic
Buyer's Email:
magic1coins@yahoo.com
Payment Sent to:

ace@thumbmc.net

Important Note: Rob Matthews has provided an Unconfirmed Address. If you are planning on shipping items to Rob Matthews, please check the Transaction Details page of this payment to find out whether you will be covered by the PayPal

DO I HAVE ANY CHANCE OF GETTING MY MONEY OR THE COIN BACK?????

ajaan

<< <i>Important Note: Rob Matthews has provided an Unconfirmed Address >>


You are screwed, same thing happened to me, different buyer.

wybrit

If PayPal can not deal with this type of problem more effectively, sellers will go elsewhere. Sellers pay confiscatory fees for the service as is.

In both of the cases documented here recently, if the seller had waited ten or twenty days before shipping, they may still have gotten stung.

coinpictures

<< <i>Sellers pay confiscatory fees for the service as is. >>



Just stop with that garbage. 30 cents + 2.9% is hardly confiscatory. If you don't like it, don't use it. It's still cheaper than any traditional merchant account (unless you're high volume).

I am so sick and tired of people b*tching and whining because PayPal isn't free. PayPal has opened up so many doors for the average Joe with respect to ecommerce; without it the vast majority of buying and selling that occurs on Ebay (and here) wouldn't be happening. Do you want to go back to waiting weeks for personal checks or money orders? International transactions taking months to complete? I sure as hell don't.

wybrit

Better posting below...

cacheman

Sellers pay confiscatory fees for the service as is.

Yes, yes they do.... Perhaps the nickel & dimer people don't feel the pinch but any big ticket buyers and sellers do.

Coinpictures, could you say the same thing if you were required to use PayPal to the tune of $300-400 per transaction when you could wire the same amount for $35 through your credit union or bank? Oh, and the bank/credit union is going to do everything in their power to cover your ass in case of a scam too...unlike the cavalier stance Paypal takes with such matters.

Still, the next time you pay your $2.17 PayPal monthly bill, feel free to chuckle to yourself that you pity the poor bast***s that have nothing better to do than beech and moan about this wonderful company and their business practices.

danglen

I have been stung to the tune of over $450.00 with this scam. In my case I shipped coins to Canada (three different buyers) but since they were going out of the country I couldn't get electronic delivery confirmation unless I wanted to spend $35 for Express mail delivery, so they got the coins, told PayPal they didn't get them, PayPal dinged my account, too bad, so sad.......All of these services are set up in such a way that the seller has no recourse, and I agree that they really stink, but if you want to play the game you have to live with their rules.

By the way, the ID "magiccoinsmagic" sounded familiar to me, so I checked and sure enough, he is on my "Blocked BidderList" as well. Can't remember why I blocked him, probably was a NPB.

coinpictures

<< <i>Coinpictures, could you say the same thing if you were required to use PayPal to the tune of $300-400 per transaction when you could wire the same amount for $35 through your credit union or bank? Oh, and the bank/credit union is going to do everything in their power to cover your ass in case of a scam too...unlike the cavalier stance Paypal takes with such matters.

Still, the next time you pay your $2.17 PayPal monthly bill, feel free to chuckle to yourself that you pity the poor bast***s that have nothing better to do than beech and moan about this wonderful company and their business practices. >>



*sigh*

You're missing my point.

1. From a selling standpoint, PayPal's fees are no more "confiscatory" than traditional Visa/MC merchant accounts, and in most cases are actually less since there is no monthly fee. If you were a brick & mortar store using a traditional credit card merchant account you still would be paying large amounts as a percentage in order to accept payments.

2. Don't like it, don't use it. Simple. No one is "requiring" you to use PayPal. If the parties you are doing business with do not accept any other payment methods, that isn't PayPal's fault. In your example above you should be blaming the party you are doing business with that insists upon only paying with PayPal, rather than blaming PayPal. Better yet, if you are a seller and thus paying the fees, why don't YOU stipulate an alternate payment method that doesn't cost YOU as much.

3. You're probably not concerned with either accepting credit cards from other individuals or wanting to pay another individual using a credit card. For these types of transactions, there is currently NO reasonable alternative. Sure, I as a buyer or other people paying me could take cash advances on credit cards and pay usary 20-30% interest rates, but that's ridiculous.

If you don't use PayPal, feel free to complain about it all you want. What I find annoying are all the people who use PayPal regularly, yet complain that PayPal charges too much. You act like PayPal is twisting your arms and forcing you to use their services. They aren't. You're making conscious decisions to either pay via PayPal or accept payments via PayPal. Since you find their fees so objectionable, find another way. *shrug*

Oh, and by the way, I pay PayPal far more per month than $2.17... by at least 2 orders of magnitude.

laurentyvan

Blessed be You by God.

I hate to say it, but when I see this statement in e-mails I assume the worst.

SYRACUSIAN

Coinpictures,wybrit has a point, in my opinion you could have rephrased your argument in a better way.**


Paypal is ok as far as fees are concerned for the vast majority of transactions up to say $200. Above this amount, I will always insist on using a different payment method, both as a buyer or as a seller, to avoid these extravagant fees.

Then, there's the problem with unconfirmed addresses. I have been receiving paypal payments since 2002, my feedback with them is close to 100, most of which are repeat ,so the real number of incoming payments exceeds 300*. 18 months ago, I underwent an extensive investigation and was asked to send them an incredible amount of documents ,from IDs to utility bills and I have sent them every single one of them. The problem was quickly solved,but my address still shows up as unconfirmed. When I asked them why, they told me that by definition, every non US address is unconfirmed because they are using the AVS system for this,so in other words they have in reality confirmed my address and id, but bureaucracy won't let them change that dreadful notice at the end of each transaction.

* edited to add, that this is because most of my transactions are with local buyers who come and pick their items in person, or if they are living in a different city they will send postal checks, otherwise the feedback number would have at least doubled.


What I don't get, is why they are always siding up with buyers' claims, when clearly most of them are scams, especially the ones against power sellers with high volumes and impeccable reputation such as Dan. They are creating a serious problem like this, because many sellers will no longer accept paypal payments from overseas accounts, unless the items are sent express with delivery confirmation, which results in unreasonable postage fees,so the bidders are left with no choice but to look elsewhere.


**post written before cp's second reply.

Scavenger

Have you called PayPal and explained to them what happened? I had an issue with a seller and the day I called PayPal it was resolved.

Ricke

It's bad business, really... For the fees paypal charges, which I think are somewhat reasonable, they should not wash their hands of the transaction as a 'middle man'. If that is all they are claiming to be, then their fees are unreasonable, because they provide a service which (it seems to me) they have no risk in.

One party disputes, the second party loses - but the second party pays you for a fast and effecient financial transaction. If you have no protections, it is no longer effecient, it's just fast - and dangerous.

If paypal was the party with financial exposure, you would see significantly less ability to perform these 'reversals', and when it did happen, the party disputing the charge would certainly be turned over for collections, reported, and pursued by a large financial entity...

That is what credit card companies do, and that is why credit card companies can charge similar fees.

Aside from that, it seems that paypal/ebay are much worse for the nickel and dimers. I sold an item on ebay for 99 cents, with 3.00 in shipping/handling. After costs of postage/shipping materials, ebay fees, and the paypal fees... I lost like 40 cents. kind of funny.

wybrit

coinpictures, old chap: all of your points in this thread are secondary to the original topic the thread addresses. You clearly fail to understand the problem being posed or simply are choosing to treat us to your hidden agenda:
"Don't bash PayPal!!!"

* Problem: PayPal is extracting money from sellers' accounts as a result of certain buyers conducting fraudulent transactions, causing customer dissatisfaction and potential loss of revenue to PayPal.
* Ricke and Syracusian expand nicely on all my points I made in the first two sentences in my first post to this thread, saving me the time necessary to elaborate on them myself which I did not have early this morning (thanks for that!). I'm especially pleased that the "hidden cost" factor has been realised in some of the verbage posted here.
* PayPal should improve their process to fix this problem.
* If they do not, they will likely lose revenue long term. Why would they want to do this??
* Clearly a lot of people who post here have been bitten by this poor process already and are upset.


P.S. Along with anyone else, even you, I can gripe, rant, rave or spew about any coin-related topic here to my heart's content, including PayPal's process, if the mood suits me. Unless I cross the line and break the PCGS posting rules, you will not silence me or anyone else. You can cover your eyes and skip those sentences or threads that so deeply offend you, like most everyone else seems to do.

coinpictures

<< <i>Along with anyone else, even you, I can gripe, rant, rave or spew about any coin-related topic here to my heart's content, including PayPal's process, if the mood suits me. Unless I cross the line and break the PCGS posting rules, you will not silence me or anyone else. You can cover your eyes and skip those sentences or threads that so deeply offend you, like most everyone else seems to do. >>



My post was not in response to the original OP, but to your whining. No one is trying to silence you, so feel free to climb down off that cross you've hoisted yourself on to.

You're right: you can gripe, rant, rave, or spew about anything you want... and I can also gripe, rant, rave, or spew about your griping, ranting, raving, or spewing (I'm sorry to say that actually made sense when I originally typed it). Anyway... same rules apply.

As to your assertion that I have some agenda: No, I just don't like pointless and nonsensical whining, especially when you use extreme and clearly exaggerating adjectives like "confiscatory". I'm next expecting to read that "PayPal is raping their customers." PayPal is far from perfect, but they're not the demons and ogres you want to make them out to be. I'm still wondering why you use the service if it is so damned awful...?

Many people are pinning a lot of their hopes on Google's payment alternative, "Google Purchases", but that has yet to get off the ground. I think that PayPal *does* need a competitor to keep them in line. Thus far there haven't been any.

At any rate, I do apologize to the OP for derailing his thread; I should have addressed Wybrit's comments elsewhere. Also, if I gave the impression that I was referring to the OP as whining, that was not my intent... just Wybrit.

dcamp78

Hello all,

I believe that you can set your Paypal account to accept only payments that come directly from the Paypal
account, not a credit card or bank account.

If this is done, there can be no charge back unless both buyer and seller go through the arbitration process.

I could be wrong... (first time this year though...)

johnsim03

<< <i>Hello all,

I believe that you can set your Paypal account to accept only payments that come directly from the Paypal
account, not a credit card or bank account.

If this is done, there can be no charge back unless both buyer and seller go through the arbitration process.

I could be wrong... (first time this year though...) >>



Hi Big Dave:

This is not allowed for eBay sales in the US. If you list PayPal in your listing (text or graphic), you must accept all forms
of PayPal payment - including credit cards. It is a term of (eBay) service, and, if you change your settings,
you end up being a "non-performing seller" because you are not playing by the rules.

This is definitely a problem on eBay. On the other hand, chargebacks are always a problem in business.
You would have the same potential situation if you accept credit cards with ANY provider.

John

mojoman

<< <i><< Important Note: Rob Matthews has provided an Unconfirmed Address >> >>



but he did give the same addy on his first win, the second item won was with his credit card but unconfirmed addy,but still the same as his first,I hope that is enough proof paypal?, and the JERK has the coin!MoJo

cacheman

ttt

lordmarcovan

<< <i>Blessed be You by God.

I hate to say it, but when I see this statement in e-mails I assume the worst. >>

Same here. When I hear that from a stranger, my first instinct is, "run!". Sad, but true... fake religiosity is a hallmark of many cheats and thieves. I've experienced it in person more than once.

ibzman350

<< <i>

<< <i>Blessed be You by God.

I hate to say it, but when I see this statement in e-mails I assume the worst. >>

Same here. When I hear that from a stranger, my first instinct is, "run!". Sad, but true... fake religiosity is a hallmark of many cheats and thieves. I've experienced it in person more than once. >>






Ditto




Herb

RareBronzeCollector

<< <i>

2. Don't like it, don't use it. Simple. No one is "requiring" you to use PayPal. If the parties you are doing business with do not accept any other payment methods, that isn't PayPal's fault. In your example above you should be blaming the party you are doing business with that insists upon only paying with PayPal, rather than blaming PayPal. Better yet, if you are a seller and thus paying the fees, why don't YOU stipulate an alternate payment method that doesn't cost YOU as much.

>>




I thought that I read in another thread that EBAY is requiring all NEW users to accept PAYPAL... Not existing users, just NEW users..... If this is true, then the NEW USERS ARE being forced to accept paypal.....

Personally, I still prefer checks, money orders, or cash.... I use paypal for payments, and have a separate account for receiving payments, primarily for overseas buyers.....

danglen

<< <i> Blessed be You by God.

I hate to say it, but when I see this statement in e-mails I assume the worst. >>



I agree. When I hear that from a stranger I immediately check my wallet.

covers

I love PAYPAL in general (ease of use for foreign buyers, etc) - just really hate to get dinged with charge-backs. Recently a guy in Italy insisted on registered mail, which I never use to Italy because of problems. Guy says he never received and asks paypal for chargeback till it gets resolved. I show PAYPAL all of my proof of mailing to a confirmed address, claim request, etc. The max amount USPS pays on claim is $48. which is yet to be received.

The $450 is taken out of my PAYPAL account. They say originally that the dispute will be resolved in 24 hours (should take 10 seconds). A week later and they tell me it could take 30 dyas??????

Goober

I used to defend any attack on Pay Pal. I thought they were the "cats meow". After several episodes of having my account locked, and fighting to have it released I closed my account. Two months after closing it I get a message from them wanting me to re-open my account to fight a dispute. I reply that I can answer questions via email and phone and that I will not open another account with them. Pay Pal sends me one generic message in reply to a question I ask of them. Two months later I have a collection agency coming after me for $900 saying they were hired by Pay Pal. They say Pay Pal contacted me 18 times and I refused to answer questions. Well I may not be the angel my mother says I am but I know this, my contact information hasn't changed in over 10 years, and Pay Pal never once contacted me. Pay Pal has had class action law suits filed against them, and have had several smaller suits filed and settled all in favor of the other party. Being in cahoots with Ebay doesn't help either. They play each others policies against once another and make it hard for a seller or buyer to steer clear of the rampant fraud that has infected both. I for one will still purchase occasionly on Ebay but will do so only with m.o.'s or cashier's checks.

So people will love Pay Pal and people will hate Pay Pal. To each his/her own.

RareBronzeCollector

<< <i>I used to defend any attack on Pay Pal. I thought they were the "cats meow". After several episodes of having my account locked, and fighting to have it released I closed my account. Two months after closing it I get a message from them wanting me to re-open my account to fight a dispute. I reply that I can answer questions via email and phone and that I will not open another account with them. Pay Pal sends me one generic message in reply to a question I ask of them. Two months later I have a collection agency coming after me for $900 saying they were hired by Pay Pal. They say Pay Pal contacted me 18 times and I refused to answer questions. Well I may not be the angel my mother says I am but I know this, my contact information hasn't changed in over 10 years, and Pay Pal never once contacted me. Pay Pal has had class action law suits filed against them, and have had several smaller suits filed and settled all in favor of the other party. Being in cahoots with Ebay doesn't help either. They play each others policies against once another and make it hard for a seller or buyer to steer clear of the rampant fraud that has infected both. I for one will still purchase occasionly on Ebay but will do so only with m.o.'s or cashier's checks.

So people will love Pay Pal and people will hate Pay Pal. To each his/her own. >>





!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

coinpictures

<< <i>I thought that I read in another thread that EBAY is requiring all NEW users to accept PAYPAL... Not existing users, just NEW users..... If this is true, then the NEW USERS ARE being forced to accept paypal.....

Personally, I still prefer checks, money orders, or cash.... I use paypal for payments, and have a separate account for receiving payments, primarily for overseas buyers..... >>



You are correct. Ebay has changed the new user requirements recently to require PayPal. That wasn't the case back when this thread originally was written almost a year and a half ago.

RareBronzeCollector

<< <i>

<< <i>I thought that I read in another thread that EBAY is requiring all NEW users to accept PAYPAL... Not existing users, just NEW users..... If this is true, then the NEW USERS ARE being forced to accept paypal.....

Personally, I still prefer checks, money orders, or cash.... I use paypal for payments, and have a separate account for receiving payments, primarily for overseas buyers..... >>



You are correct. Ebay has changed the new user requirements recently to require PayPal. That wasn't the case back when this thread originally was written almost a year and a half ago. >>




Sorry, I hadn't noticed the original posting date of the thread.....

However, it does go to show how eBay's mindset has changed..... The GIANT BEHEMOTH (I know, it's redundant... But I remember liking the movie of the name, when I was a kid) has SPOKEN, now everybody JUMP!!!!

Wouldn't this fall under some sort of Monopoly, Restraint of Trade, or Anti-Trust acts, at least insofar as new users are concerned???

secondrepublic

I had a PayPal account for a short time which I closed around five years ago. They kept asking for all kinds of ridiculously specific levels of information -- more than required to get a credit card or even a mortgage !! And then they wouldn't even act on it in a timely manner, and their customer service was positively Stalinist. So I sent them a rude e-mail, said to hell with you, and that was that.

coinpictures

Their customer service is indeed a crapshoot. Some of the CSRs truly do not know how to do anything but read a script. The support in Dispute Resolutions is a bit better, but not stellar.

I've read and heard horror stories about some Ebay sellers being forced to jump though all sorts of hoops, and forced to "prove" that what they were selling wasn't stolen (I didn't realize it was possible to prove a negative). I know that some of those situations involved "high risk" merchandise, like a seller claiming to have 10 PS3s on the day of release, etc.

I've been lucky over the years in my dealings with PayPal, but I know some people have just had miserable experiences with them...

Aethelred

<< <i>

<< <i>Important Note: Rob Matthews has provided an Unconfirmed Address >>


You are screwed, same thing happened to me, different buyer. >>



Same here!