ANACS is a disgrace! Their graders are obviously sight-impaired! UPDATE--3 MONTHS LATER

bushmaster8 · May 30, 2006 1:13AM

I emailed ANACS and said, "I have a coin in an older ANACS slab that has some PVC on the coin...does this fall under the ANACS guarantee?"

Yes, says they, send it to us and we will see if PVC removal is feasible.

So, I send this in, even telling them exactly where to look (obverse stars 2 through 5):

Then I get an email from Traci saying, "We have examined your coin and find NO PVC, just beautiful original toning."

While I do appreciate the nice compliment on the coins toning, I certainly am not happy with the incompetence displayed. I am done with ANACS!

fc · May 30, 2006 1:16AM

you had to take awfully large pictures for us to see it.
with the coin in hand, it must be near invisible?

but if you told them where to look, you would reckon 5-8
times magnification would have seen it?

poorguy · May 30, 2006 1:21AM

you had to take awfully large pictures for us to see it.
with the coin in hand, it must be near invisible?

That's not the point. If there is PVC on the coin, in any measurable amount, it should be able to be detected by professional graders. From what I saw on your image it is pretty obvious. 5 seconds with a loupe and with your instructions on where the PVC is on the coin should have resulted in the conclusion that the coin has PVC on it.

bushmaster8 · May 30, 2006 1:24AM

Yes, it's a close up pic, because there are so many "prove it" types here on the forums.

But you can easily see the goop with an 8x glass.

BTW, that is a star on a Barber 25c you are looking at.

fc · May 30, 2006 1:27AM

That's not the point. If there is PVC on the coin, in any measurable amount, it should be able to be detected by professional graders.

maybe anacs does not use professional graders to do
fast PVC checks.

maybe most anacs customers who do use that service of
getting pvc removed do not send in coins with so little pvc
on it, thus a regular joe missed it.

i am just speculating. it seems sad they did not see it.

edited to add: more than likely it was given a check without
magnification. what exactly is anacs definition of pvc damage?
easily visible with the naked eye? OR anything we see with
10X mag?

DeusExMachina · May 30, 2006 1:41AM

ANACS needs to straighten things out and quickly. They seem to be circling the drain.

If they call that toning, I am not sure I want to submit any more coins to them....

Baley · May 30, 2006 1:44AM

Lots of folks gets all excited about "opinions" that happen to differ.

Others acquire Zen

PerryHall · May 30, 2006 2:18AM

I see some green spots which is what, I assume, you are refering to. Are small green spots automatically indicatative of PVC or could it just be some oxidation of a few spots of concentrated copper alloy?

bushmaster8 · May 30, 2006 2:24AM

<< Are small green spots automatically indicatative of PVC ...? >>

No, not always, but sometimes. In this case-YES.

<< Could it just be some oxidation of a few spots of concentrated copper alloy? >>

NO. There is absolutely no question that this is PVC.

Cladiator · May 30, 2006 2:34AM

PVC? That ain't PVC kido!

This is PVC!!!

Barndog · May 30, 2006 2:35AM

<< This is PVC!!! >>

You send that in to get it fixed yet?

michael · May 30, 2006 2:35AM

just beautiful original toning

this translates to me to mean that

they think you are an idiot collector and they do not want to waste their time or $$$ screwing around with you
and that they are not going to do anything about it

as it is going to cost them money

and they will send you the coin back to you

and it is tuff cheese for you

you wanted it
you bought it
you own it

good luck to you

just beautiful original toning oh yes!!!!!!!! i love when someone pi$$es on me and tells me its raining

MajorDuty · May 30, 2006 2:36AM

That's another one of those pictures where the image looks reversed, portions sunken in instead of raised. Anyone else see that?

michael · May 30, 2006 2:40AM

that is an optical dillusion

mozin · May 30, 2006 2:41AM

It IS active PVC. Shame on ANACS for denying it.

MajorDuty · May 30, 2006 2:52AM

<< that is an optical dillusion >>

I had to force myself to see the light coming from the other side, then the star slowly popped up from its sunken state.

Shame on ANACS, btw.

sinin1 · May 30, 2006 10:26PM

I got a coin back a few years ago from ANACS - PVC

I could not see anything, but could smell shower curtain ( I wonder if I could see it now)

Cladiator · May 30, 2006 10:28PM

<< 

<< This is PVC!!! >>

You send that in to get it fixed yet? >>

Not yet. Waiting on the word from the man

goose3 · May 30, 2006 10:32PM

"IT'S A NEW DAY AT ANACS"

Whitby · May 30, 2006 10:43PM

<< Yes, it's a close up pic, because there are so many "prove it" types here on the forums.

But you can easily see the goop with an 8x glass.

BTW, that is a star on a Barber 25c you are looking at. >>

Excellent pic and excellent catch on your part. As to the prove it types.....well it is the internet, what more can one ask?

tmot99 · May 30, 2006 10:50PM

<< i love when someone pi$$es on me and tells me its raining >>

What a quote! I love it!

bushmaster8 · June 2, 2006 4:32AM

TTT because this really tics me off!

goose3 · June 2, 2006 4:36AM

and it's still a new day at ANACS.

Connecticoin · June 2, 2006 4:55AM

I agree that that should have caught it, but did you e-mail them your photo before starting this thread? I would think that would have prompted them to take a closer look and agree to remove it and re-holder the coin.

UncleWiggly · June 2, 2006 5:27AM

<< and it's still a new day at ANACS.

>>

No it's not either! It's the same thing as the old day at ANACS. LOL. Seriously, I believe most of our bubbles have been burst. We were hoping for a rival to PCGS and another grading co. whose marketability equals that of PCGS graded coins. Well, it's not going to happen. Not now, not ever, especially with ANACS. Some one mentioned they are circling the hole. Well, that's absolutely 100% not true. They jumped from operations in Ohio straight into the hole. And, they will never get out. NEVER! NEVER! NEVER! What a bummer.

Jerry

bushmaster8 · September 6, 2006 1:15AM

UPDATE--3 MONTHS LATER

Yesterday I recieved an invoice from ANACS. They want me to pay the return postage!

Here is a copy of the email I am sending them in response:

When I contacted ANACS concerning the invoiced coin, I inquired whether or not the ANACS guarantee covered this coin that had previously been slabbed with PVC residue present on the surface of the coin. I rec'd. a reply that yes, it was covered and asking me to send the coin back to ANACS in order for them to determine whether or not PVC removal was possible. No mention was made of who would pay the return postage. Since the coin was erroneously encapsulated with PVC present, I assumed that ANACS would be paying the bill. It was after all ANACS' s mistake.

I was quite surprised and angered when the coin was returned to me with a note saying there was no PVC on the coin. I have been collecting for 26 years, I know what PVC looks like. I have shown the coin to many dealers. All state unequivocally that the coin has PVC contamination. Your grader(s), upon reviewing this coin, could not see the contamination on this coin, despite my having pointed out in my email, exactly where on the coin the PVC was present.

Had the PVC been removed and reholdered, I would gladly pay this invoice. However, I refuse to pay for a service that was not provided. In fact, I believe ANACS should pay me for the postage costs I incurred in sending the coin to you for the "sham review".

I am attaching a photo showing the PVC contamination that still resides on the coin in question.

Sincerely,
Greg Lewis

dorkkarl · September 6, 2006 1:21AM

that is not pvc

K S

poorguy · September 6, 2006 1:23AM

Man, why don't you provide a link to this thread or post it on ANACS message board. Do they even have one? Why has it taken 3 months?

bushmaster8 · September 6, 2006 1:25AM

<< Man, why don't you provide a link to this thread or post it on ANACS message board. Do they even have one? Why has it taken 3 months? >>

I don't think they have a message board.

My guess is they just did some sort of Quarterly accounting, and found they were $13 in the hole.

Cladiator · September 6, 2006 1:45AM

<< that is not pvc

K S >>

Then what is it?

dorkkarl · September 6, 2006 2:16AM

it's simple run-of-the-mill carbon/verdigris, NOT PVC. it appears non-reactive as well

personally, i would get it off (acetone), but anacs was right.

K S

bushmaster8 · September 6, 2006 3:55AM

Your certainly entitled to your opinion Dorkkarl.

But your post seems self-contradictory.

I don't know what carbon/verdigris is. But I do know what carbon spots are. And I do know what verdigris is.

Neither are soluble in acetone.

If the green stuff comes off with acetone, there is generally a pretty strong likelyhood that the stuff is PVC.

But the fact remains that it is PVC.

dorkkarl · September 6, 2006 4:19AM

i assure you that carbon &/or verdigris floating on top of the coin's surface can SOMETIMES be removed w/ acetone (& i should have qualifed my statement as such). really, i would suggest trying it, as i freely admit this might be a case where it does'nt work. if not acetone, try blue-ribbon, or a dilute coin dip, but those spots can be removed. but that by no means does it look like pvc to me, at least not from that particular digi-pic

K S

slipgate · September 6, 2006 4:45AM

<< PVC? That ain't PVC kido!

This is PVC!!!

There's no way this is PVC, they didn't even HAVE PVC in 1829!

>>

dorkkarl · September 6, 2006 4:54AM

i agree

K S

dorkkarl · September 6, 2006 4:55AM

bush-master, if your willing to risk it, please try the acetone idea, & give us an "after" image. could prove to be educational!

K S

Myqqy · September 6, 2006 4:58AM

i love when someone pi$$es on me and tells me its raining

coinguy1 · September 6, 2006 5:00AM

I agree with karl - it looks like verdigris (the type of which is most often seen on copper coins) and not PVC. That is possibly/probably a separate matter from the postage issue, however.

"ver·di·gris (vûr'dĭ-grēs', -grĭs', -grē')
n.
1. A blue or green powder consisting of basic cupric acetate used as a paint pigment and fungicide.
2. A green patina or crust of copper sulfate or copper chloride formed on copper, brass, and bronze exposed to air or seawater for long periods of time.
[Middle English vertegrez"

bushmaster8 · September 6, 2006 5:06AM

<< bush-master, if your willing to risk it, please try the acetone idea, & give us an "after" image. could prove to be educational!

K S >>

Are you crazy? That would mean cracking it out of the slab! Blasphemy!!

Seriously, I have no doubt the spots are very likely removeable with acetone. But I want ANACS to be the one to do it.

bushmaster8 · September 6, 2006 5:17AM

I sent Miles Standish the same pic but larger (500KB) and he wants me to Fed-ex the coin back to ANACS at their expense.

Do I give them another chance??

BTW, this is a 1909-O 25¢ AU50, which is extremely rare in this grade. I would be crushed if whatever conservation process altered the coins beautiful toning.

chiefbob · September 6, 2006 5:18AM

<< 

<< PVC? That ain't PVC kido!

This is PVC!!!

There's no way this is PVC, they didn't even HAVE PVC in 1829!

>>

>>

The bigger question: Can ANACS safely remove the red arrows from Cladiator's coin?

19Lyds · September 6, 2006 5:27AM

My 2 cents on this little fiasco................

If ANACs knew it wasn't PVC, then why the heck did they not state that in their original reply email to you with perhaps an opinion on what it really was with an offer to remove whatever it was??

dorkkarl · September 6, 2006 5:42AM

<< If ANACs knew it wasn't PVC, then why the heck did they not state that in their original reply email to you with perhaps an opinion on what it really was with an offer to remove whatever it was?? >>

is that covered under grading fees?

K S

Frankcoins · September 6, 2006 12:10PM

<< 

Seriously, I have no doubt the spots are very likely removeable with acetone. But I want ANACS to be the one to do it. >>

ANACS will not do any type of cleaning or "conservation", even if requested.

coindeuce · September 6, 2006 12:53PM

<< I sent Miles Standish the same pic but larger (500KB) and he wants me to Fed-ex the coin back to ANACS at their expense.

Do I give them another chance??

BTW, this is a 1909-O 25¢ AU50, which is extremely rare in this grade. I would be crushed if whatever conservation process altered the coins beautiful toning. >>

< bush-master, if your willing to risk it, please try the acetone idea, & give us an "after" image. could prove to be educational!

K S >>

Are you crazy? That would mean cracking it out of the slab! Blasphemy!!

So let me get this straight. You don't respect ANACS opinion on the nature of the surface matter, but you do respect THEIR OPINION of the assigned grade, which you've emphasized makes YOUR COIN extremely rare. What is more important to you: the holder or the coin?????????????

gyocomgd · September 6, 2006 1:19PM

<< If ANACs knew it wasn't PVC, then why the heck did they not state that in their original reply email to you with perhaps an opinion on what it really was with an offer to remove whatever it was?? >>

They did. Read the first post. It's "beautiful, original toning."

Derek2100 · September 6, 2006 1:23PM

Shall they crack it out and dip it for you then? Maybe you should send it to Teletrade LOL.

BlindedByEgo · September 6, 2006 2:56PM

<< Shall they crack it out and dip it for you then? Maybe you should send it to Teletrade LOL. >>

Jagoff's over here, too. Hello, Jagoff.

ANACS is a disgrace! Their graders are obviously sight-impaired! UPDATE--3 MONTHS LATER

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