Hypothetical: The general dealer prices the coin too low with an out-of-date price guide...

RYK

Hypothetical: The general dealer prices the coin too low with an out-of-date price guide, about 25% lower than current market. As a specialist in the series, you know his price is lower than it should be. You do not want the coin for yourself.

Do you:

1. Inform the dealer that his pricing is too low.

2. Inform a specialty dealer friend that the coin is available and the price is too low and let him take a shot.

3. Make a public service announcement on the PCGS forum that the coin is available at an attractive price and let a forum friend take a shot.

4. Assume that the coin is probably low-end for the grade.

5. Try to buy it and flip it.

6. Forgetaboutit.

Purely hypothetical, of course.

Barndog

Do you have a hypothetical link?

michael

if i do not want it for myself inform a collector friend about it

jayboxx

Dang it, I was going to do a hypothetical like this.

My answer is #5

goldisgood

7. PM me about the coin.

Connecticoin

#4. Because there is no Santa Claus in the coin business.

gamr0n

A dealer I know uses a really really old online price guide. Prices are about 20+% lower than current ones. I just buy, then buy more with the money saved on his cheap prices! It is a win win situation!

jonathanb

For a cheap item (under $50, say), I'd definitely tell the dealer if I was face to face, for example at a show. I've also pointed out various other errors on coins that I wasn't interested in -- might as well get the right date on the flip so that someone who is interested has a better chance of spotting it.

For a coin worth several hundred or more, yeah, I'd buy it and try to flip it -- but but I'd have to be really sure that I was right!

jonathan

LincolnsRule

I saw a red early S pcgs Lincoln at a show once, asked the dealer how much. He pulled out a greysheet. I bought it and sold it the next day for nearly twice that (I probably could have got well over twice but gave my buyer a break!).

coinbuf

Hmm so the question is am I greedy or do I do the right thing, right? It depends upon if I like this person or not. I've met some dealers that I would'nt lose a wink of sleep over if I was able to rip him. But in most cases I would mention that I think he could ask more for the item. You never know when your good deed may help you in the future.

Chris

mrearlygold

<< <i>Do you have a hypothetical link?
>>

Reece

Buy it and keep it!!

Bochiman

Since he probably bought it at the old price - x%, I wouldn't feel too bad for him (unless I really liked the dealer and he actually paid fair prices when buying).

RKKay

It's strange to me that these answers are so different than Coinguy1's hypothetical. Sure, it's the dealer's job, but what happened to those of you in that thread who said ethics can't be compromised? You know you're taking advantage of someone who's not an expert, just like in Coinguy's thread. The only difference is that you can rationalize that this guy should have more knowledge.

PerryHall

Number 5 since he is still selling it for 5X what he paid for it when he bought it from an even less knowledgable seller.

BlindedByEgo

<< <i>Number 5 since he is still selling it for 5X what he paid for it when he bought it from an even less knowledgable seller. >>



Cynical, but probably true. A seller quotes the price that he expects to be paid, hopefully with the intention of making his money back along with some profit. If a dealer quotes me sheet, for example, on a decent-for-the-grade but wildly toned coin (nt of course) - who am I to argue him into asking more? It's simple commerce. That's where I disagree with Rick's hypothesis - it's not an ethics issue - stupididty by all rights SHOULD be painful

Also, price guides are a tool in the coin trade - if I can't/ don't/ won't invest in the tools to keep me current - maybe I deserve a spanking.

Ergo, #7 - I buy it. Whatever I do with it after is my business

Deadhorse

Ran across a similar thing at a flea market last summer.

I saw a batch of mint sets and asked if he had any 1996 sets with the "W" dime included. He pulled out a stack of 22 unopened, but opened one to show me the dime was included. I asked how much for the lot and he looked in his book, whatever it was, and said he'd take $295 for the entire lot, $280 if I had cash.

I scooped them up, then we chatted a bit about his set up at the market and I told him the Greysheet price on the sets. He didn't seem to mind but did say he probably needed to go over all his stuff and adjust it accordingly. Most everything besides mint and proof sets he had were circ Morgans and very average stuff that I really wasn't interested in anyway. Yes, I did look for '64 proof sets, but he had none. I was sure he'd never heard of an AH.

He didn't mind one bit which only told me that he probably paid half to three-quarters of that somewhere in the recent past. I know he got a lot of rips in that place, he showed me a stack of circ Morgans he bought from a lady that morning for $8 each. In the batch of 12 or so, I saw three CCs in the lot. Commons, to be sure, but that was a hell of a rip.

jdimmick

Id buy it for re-sell

RYK

It's strange to me that these answers are so different than Coinguy1's hypothetical. Sure, it's the dealer's job, but what happened to those of you in that thread who said ethics can't be compromised? You know you're taking advantage of someone who's not an expert, just like in Coinguy's thread. The only difference is that you can rationalize that this guy should have more knowledge.



I wondered when someone would bring up this argument. Personally, if this situation were to arise , I would do nothing (#6). If I knew the coin to be one that a friend would want, I would tip the friend off.

291fifth

Why be concerned about it? I have better things to worry about.

chabot510

Not to be picky, but a general dealer would probably price the coin at about 25% below the market value, especially if he is not looking to really add the coin to his inventory.

Also, a specialist is likely to value the same coin more (perhaps better variety, strike, etc. than what is commonly seen).

JMO

RYK

Not to be picky, but a general dealer would probably price the coin at about 25% below the market value, especially if he is not looking to really add the coin to his inventory.

Not to be argumentative, but this dealer ALWAYS prices his coins at or near Trends. He has priced this coin at 60% Trends. I think that if I emailed him that Trends has just gone up about 50% for this coin, he would raise the price. Oops, the hypothetical dealer.

Actually, I do see this phenomenon regularly in my area.

StrikeOutXXX

This is the real scenario at the little antique store in town that sells coins. They use the 2002 Redbook to set prices in addition to marking them down slightly when I buy them, on top of undergrading. Now, I have a feeling you're talking much higher prices, in my case, he puts $80 on a $100 coin, $15 on a $20 coin, $2.00 on a $3.00 coin, etc, but the same principle applies.

I did bring it up to them once, but since they also use the 2002 Redbook to base their purchase price on from customers, it works out all around. Seller/pawnwer gets a bit less, store works on the same profit margin, just slightly lower price points, and my son and I get a few dollar discount on the lower-end coins.

They also said they don't like to keep coins in inventory very long, and believe the few dollar discount here and there keeps the small customer base happy (it does me). By doing this, they usually don't have a coin for more than a week or two and can allow them to focus on their primarily antique business. They usually only have about 50 coins at a time in their case, with 10,000 or so antique pieces, so you can see why they don't worry a whole lot about coins.

As long as they're happy with it, who am I to argue.

elwood

1st....I would flip it.

2nd...I would tell a collector friend.

3rd...I would split it or take a finders fee from a dealer

All depending on the circumstances.

elwood

I should add that if I knew the dealer, I would inform him of current pricing.

At some point in the future I would remind him of the information I had provided, at no charge, and would expect the favor returned

Fairlaneman

<< <i>Do you:

1. Inform the dealer that his pricing is too low. >>



Did this about a year ago when things were really humming. The dealer did not care what the real market was at all. He still stuck to the way that he has been buying and selling coins, going off the Gray Sheet, for the last 25 years. Needless to say nothing much at all was sold but it was a good buying chance. Even with the tip to him that he was selling too low I think the guy is doing just fine.

Ken

Numisone

If the "dealer" is still realizing a profit, and leaving a little on the bone for the buyer, what is the problem? Since when did Business 101 become Squeeze every cent possible? Some people enjoy what they do, and make a decent living without having to "set" the market.

ttxp

I guess if I waited for the average coin dealer to buy my coins at the absolute fair market value according to market fluctuations, I would still own every coin I have ever sold. Whereas I don't expect to receive top dollar given they themselves need to turn it over, the same applies to me in return.

If disclosure about out of date pricing was the rule, then bargain hunting, cherry picking and so forth would cease to exist, what fun is there in that?

100proof1957

5

ex: 50 D Jeff in 66 FS PCGS bout a month ago 65 bucks

BobaFett72

flip it, flip it good!

Baley

depends on many factors. generally, if i want the coin, i'll buy it for myself. if not, will simply move on.

TwoSides2aCoin

I think we should pride ourselves on the ability to spot a deal and capitalize. Taking from the innocent is quite a different story. A seasoned dealer who doesn't stay up to date with pricing is the one who set his prices.
If your conscience guides you to inform a dealer of a discrepancy in his pricing, then that would be an act of generosity on your part. It also might lead him to be greedier. There is gouging going on and that is the biggest downfall in any market. Hypothetically speaking, of course

RKKay

<< <i>I think we should pride ourselves on the ability to spot a deal and capitalize. Taking from the innocent is quite a different story. A seasoned dealer who doesn't stay up to date with pricing is the one who set his prices.
If your conscience guides you to inform a dealer of a discrepancy in his pricing, then that would be an act of generosity on your part. It also might lead him to be greedier. There is gouging going on and that is the biggest downfall in any market. Hypothetically speaking, of course >>



Maybe I misread the hypothetical, but I don't recall its saying the dealer was greedy, dishonest or anything else negative, other than being out of date. How would you have answered Coinguy1's hypothetical?