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FavreFan1971
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barry bonds hits # 715. Anyone care? Sure wish it would have been Bobby Bonds
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Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
<< <i> barry bonds hits # 715. Anyone care? >>
Yep.............I do
Shame on ESPN for promoting this travesty for the sake of ratings.
Especially shame on anyone who considers themselves a baseball fan
if they celebrate any of the numbers that some doped up freak has accumulated by cheating ...
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
Babe was still the greatest in my book, especially when you consider his pitching abilities.
When Barry * wins the Cy Young Award, let me know.
<< <i>Shame on ESPN for promoting this travesty for the sake of ratings. >>
If anything, their ratings dropped, because I'd change the channel each time.
Barry has not tested positive (Does not mean he did not use them) much like most of the other players who have not hit 715 home runs. If peformance enhancing supplements make you a home run hitter, why then are only two or three players actually hitting all these illegal home runs? With nearly 40% of players at one time or another on these drugs, you would think that they all would be hitting 40+ homers per season.
Lets just take it for what it is, Barry Bonds is one of the most feared hitters in baseball today! Ken Griffey Jr., Pujols and maybe a couple of others might have a chance at achieving what Barry has. This is a rare feat in the history of baseball and should be celebrated as such. Because the media does not like Barry (He ovbvioulsy does not like them), he has no chance of earning the respect of the average soprts fan.
I for one, a Giants Fan, believe Barry has earned his spot in history and hope on his last trip around the league (This year or next), the fans will show some appreciation for what he has accoplished.
262
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
He is obviously a scumbag, and he hopefully will get his some day. The questions about his HR records are just the beginning of his reaping what he's sown.
Bonds will get his due. As far as his personality, demeanor, etc. he's no different than Ted Williams or a host of other players. I'll sit back and let time decide where Bonds fits in baseball lore. In the meantime, I prefer not so sound like some middle-school kid whining about all the things 'wrong' with Barry Bonds.
BTW, I'd like to know how YOU would treat the media that follows Bonds. When McGuire broke into the big leagues he was a media darling, but it took only a few years for him to get sick and tired of the same questions over and over and over again - and this was way, way before any 'supplement' stuff he took.
Let's see you walk in the limelight year after year and find out how you handle it............
<< <i>Barry has not tested positive >>
262 - Maybe not but he did admit in court that he used them
although he didn't know what he was using.
It is sad, cause w/o the juice he still could have been 1 of the games greatest.
Steve Phillips on baseball tonight stated last night after watching a highlight of #715.
That he can't believe that
his stats improved while approaching 40. Its never been done before.
And that from age 35 on he has almost 300 Home Runs, more then Maris
hit in his career. Phillips knew why his #'s were so impressive and stated how
sad it was.
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
<< <i>Please, 262: this thread is not a forum for arguing Bonds's accomplishments. We know what the numbers say. We just want to rant about how much we hope Bonds suffers for how terribly he has treated his fellow human beings for 40+ years. Media, fans, peers, partners, etc.
He is obviously a scumbag, and he hopefully will get his some day. The questions about his HR records are just the beginning of his reaping what he's sown. >>
Yeah, because we know Barry Bonds RAPED and MURDERED other human beings, right? Did I miss something? Was he convicted of child molestation? Did he get busted for selling heroin or drunk driving?
The guy wasn't cooperative with the friggin media..BOO friggin HOO! He didn't give some reporter time to write a story or didn't grant an interview. That somehow constitutes being a bad human being?
Gotta love how some people are so easily brainwashed. And now you're going to try telling people how they should reply in this thread because they might not agree with your views?
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>You don't have to like him to appreciate the accomplishment. >>
Hardly!
Drug inflated record!!
What did he accomplish???
I hope they strike his stats the past few years from the record book-same for Giambi, Sheffield, McGwire, Sosa and the other steroid users.
Unfortunately, cheating has been a part of baseball forever, whether it's a pitcher doctoring a ball (Gaylord Perry only got ejected for this one time!), Sosa, Nettles, Belle, etc. using corked bats (superballs in Nettles' case), almost everyone in the 60's popping greenies or today's players juicing up.
Will we ever know who cheated and who didn't? Hopefully - after the current generation of players retires, we might see more "tell all" books that confirm what we all already suspect. David Wells talked about it in his book, Canseco followed up in his and supposedly has another one on the way, who's gonna be next? I think guys like Steve Phillips know more than they want to admit right now, maybe they'll change their minds later. Jason Giambi (and his brother Jeremy) seem ready to make a complete confession, perhaps they will one day.
And it's not just about Bonds - his personality just makes him a lightning rod for controversy, there's been a lot of suspect players in the past 15 years: Ken Caminiti (admitted), Mark McGwire (Andro - legal), Sammy Sosa (Creatine - legal, corked bat), Brett & Aaron Boone (Canseco), Ivan Rodriguez (Canseco), Gary Sheffield (BALCO - admitted), Jason Giambi (BALCO - admitted), Rafael Palmeiro (Canseco - caught). There's also a lot of suspicious "career years" on the books during the same time period - Luis Gonzalez, Fernando Tatis and Brady Anderson come to mind.
In my opinion, the bottom line is that a lot of guys cheated and got away with it, nothing baseball can do about that now. What's done is done. These guys might get their "punishment" five years after they retire when the sportswriters start voting for their election into the Hall of Fame. We'll see with McGwire this winter.
All in all, this should make us all appreciate the accomplishments of guys who don't have the shadow of steroids cast on them, guys like Mike Schmidt, Nolan Ryan, Cal Ripken, Hank Aaron & Reggie Jackson to name a few.
One final thought: Willie Mays, Frank Robinson, Harmon Killebrew, Reggie Jackson, Mike Schmidt, Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle, Joe DiMaggio, Lou Gehrig, Ernie Banks, Cal Ripken, Roberto Clemente & Willie Stargell never hit as many home runs in one season as Luis Gonzalez did in 2001 (57) - only Mays and Mantle hit more than Brady Anderson did in 1996 (50).
Ruth would stay out all night...drink endlessly...womanize and show up at the ballpark..just in time to play...scoff down 3-4 hotdogs and other goodies...
Then go out and hit and pitch the way he did...
THAT is an accomplishment!!!
oh wait....during Prohibition...wasn't alcohol a banned substance?? Hmmm better call the HOF...lol
Bonds couldn't carry this guys legacy with or without the juice...
I don't know if I am saying everything correctly that I want to. But I do know our world spends way too much time hating others.
On an important day like today, seems like we should be a little more grateful for the chance to CHOOSE our emotions. What a shame if that choice is hate.
Be good my brothers.
<< <i>If it would have been 610 and 59, nobody would care what he took. >>
Palmiero had less then 610 & 59 and isn't treated like a hero.
He has been self induced w/ Baseball banishment, and if he were still playing today
he surely would hear the jeers in every ballpark he travelled to.
Only reason why his name doesn't come up that much is he's outta sight outta mind.
His #'s were pretty impressive, over 500 HR's and over 3000 hits.
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
Note: Sorry, I choose to HATE cheating not to mention lying!
Simply put if he never did steroids, he wouldn’t be approaching this record, he wouldn’t have 73 (his highest season total to that point was 49), we wouldn’t be debating about him passing The Babe, he’d probably be retired, I’d be on to the next CU forum and all would be good in the world of sports.
Just my 2 cents.
Bull there has been cheating in baseball since its inception. it has always been a part of the game, but when we look at those that cheated in the past we see it as quaint and cute. Also please be careful when you put words in peoples mouths without Ted hear to speak for himself we do not know what he would think.
Bonds cheated. That's part of life, and that's always been part of baseball. But what is different about Bonds is that (1) there are still people who celebrate the records he breaks as a direct result of his cheating and (2) he already owns one and is still a threat to hold both of the two records that define baseball for most fans. Those records define baseball => Bonds holds those records => Bonds is a cheater ===> baseball is defined by cheating.
If you would like to make the argument that Lay and Skilling were talented executives and we should overlook the last few years of their careers and vote them in to the business HOF based on their earlier accomplishments then make that argument. If you won't make that argument, then do not insult my intelligence and make it on behalf of Bonds.
I love baseball, therefore I detest Barry Bonds. I can not even comprehend how anyone could believe otherwise.
You guys that can't stand players who cheated the game must have a hard time sleeping at night thinking about Gaylord Perry and how he cheated his way into the HOF, right?
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>I don't "detest" Bonds for the same reason I don't detest Sosa, Mcgwire, Bagwell, Canseco, Luis Gonzalez, Roger Clemens and the majority of the MLB players from the steriod era.
>>
I'm not aware of any reason why anyone should detest Bagwell and Clemens - if you know something I don't, please share. If you are simply smearing everyone with the misfortune of playing at the same time as Bonds, then that is just one more reason why any baseball fan should detest Bonds - he has cast a pall over the game and every player in it.
As for Canseco and Gonzalez, I would have to care more about them to detest them. Is there a CEO of some firm in Des Moines that cheated his investors? Probably. Is that as important as what Lay and Skilling did? Of course not. History will little note nor long remember either of these two; the damage they have done to the game is insignificant. Now, I certainly agree that, like Bonds, no baseball fan could ever respect either of them, but then I don't think anyone does.
Regarding Sosa and McGwire, I'm a mixture of conflicted and ignorant. I don't know what they did, and I don't know that what they did, if anything, was a violation of the rules. If I were voting on who gets in the HOF, neither one of them would get my vote, at least until I did know.
Bagwell and steroids
I must admit...I've never heard of someone trying to argue Bonds is evil because he took steroids and was the "Kenneth Lay and Jeff Skillings" of MLB while people like Canseco and Luis Gonzalez are small time players akin to a CEO of a small firm in Iowa.
If you think Gonzos steriod use didn't affect baseball much compared to Bonds, ask Yankee fans if they feel the same way. If Gonzo didn't use steriods, he doesn't muscle that pitch from Mariano Rivera into the outfield to end the 2001 World Series.
Take a look at rookie cards of Luis Gonzalez and compare him to the monster he was in 2001, with veins popping through his neck and forearms, he smashed FIFTY SEVEN homers!! This from a guy who averages about 20 or so homers a year.
People want to talk about Bonds' head? Gonzos head is so large, it now has its own gravitational pull!
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
That fact is that today, Bonds still remains one of the most feared hitters in baseball. Most teams won't even pitch to him...
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
By the way, Aaron was a baseball God. Long live his record!
<< <i>Bagwell and steroids
I must admit...I've never heard of someone trying to argue Bonds is evil because he took steroids and was the "Kenneth Lay and Jeff Skillings" of MLB while people like Canseco and Luis Gonzalez are small time players akin to a CEO of a small firm in Iowa.
If you think Gonzos steriod use didn't affect baseball much compared to Bonds, ask Yankee fans if they feel the same way. If Gonzo didn't use steriods, he doesn't muscle that pitch from Mariano Rivera into the outfield to end the 2001 World Series.
Take a look at rookie cards of Luis Gonzalez and compare him to the monster he was in 2001, with veins popping through his neck and forearms, he smashed FIFTY SEVEN homers!! This from a guy who averages about 20 or so homers a year.
People want to talk about Bonds' head? Gonzos head is so large, it now has its own gravitational pull! >>
You will forgive me if I continue to withhold judgment on Bagwell despite the fact that Asher B. Chancey seems convinced.
Regarding Gonzalez, you win. Your point that any baseball fan should detest Gonzalez as much as Bonds is a strong one. I'm glad we agree on that now.
<< <i>If you think Gonzos steriod use didn't affect baseball much compared to Bonds, ask Yankee fans if they feel the same way. If Gonzo didn't use steriods, he doesn't muscle that pitch from Mariano Rivera into the outfield to end the 2001 World Series. >>
No offense, but that's retarded. That was a tiny bloop single. A third grader could have hit it that far. Hell, a good bunt of a 95 mph fast ball would have gone half that distance. I hardly think steroids provided that hit for him. If so, Wade Boggs and Tony Gwynn must have been juiced up their whole career with all the bloop singles they had. This steroid thing is getting a little out of hand now.
But I do agree with you. The whole steriods thing is getting out of control and I'm sick of hearing about it everywhere I go. It's nonstop on sports radio, nonstop on ESPN, on sports news Web sites, during baseball games and even on these boards.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>If steroids make you stronger, you're able to hit the ball further, no? Now if Gonzalez wasn't on 'riods, he wouldn't have been able to hit the ball further and instead of the ball barely dropping over the infield for a hit, Gonzalezes' bloop hit lands in the glove of the SS or 2nd baseman. >>
Steroids will give you the ability to hit the ball further, yes, but it doesn't mean that EVERY ball you hit is going to travel further. It's not like you lose all element of control when you bulk up the artificial way.
<< <i>Bagwell and steroids >>
This article is obviously not meant to be taken seriously. Granted, he does a great job of playing "Six Degrees of Separation" with almost every suspect player from the past 15 years - except for the Canseco gang.
Of course we now know that Bonds was hooked up by Anderson and Conte through BALCO, not through Bagwell or any other player. With that knowledge, you have to see that this article written in 2004 is a complete fabrication.
I haven't seen this much propaganda since the last time i looked at an L.A. Times newspaper. Has Barry been convicted of anything??? I am personally waiting this one out. I am going to let the legal system do it's thing. Barry has not been convicted on any steriod charges, he has not been charged with false testimony to Congress. Until his ass is sitting on the witness stand defending himself in front of jurors, he is presumed innocent. Most people on this thread have convicted him on his personality. Sorry it don't work that way folks. I am no Barry fan by any stretch of the imagination, but i am giving him his day in court.
<< <i>The diabolical aspect of what he has done is influence younger people >>
Right on.
<< <i>
<< <i>Bagwell and steroids >>
This article is obviously not meant to be taken seriously. Granted, he does a great job of playing "Six Degrees of Separation" with almost every suspect player from the past 15 years - except for the Canseco gang.
Of course we now know that Bonds was hooked up by Anderson and Conte through BALCO, not through Bagwell or any other player. With that knowledge, you have to see that this article written in 2004 is a complete fabrication. >>
The author said in 1999, Bonds obtained 'riods from Servais and Bagwell. It was in 2000 that Bonds hooked up with Balco.
But playing devil's advocate, if what you're saying is true - that the entire article is a fabrication, Bagwell and friends should be filing a lawsuit against the writer, right? People said the reason Bonds didn't sue the writers of "Game of Shadows" is because he knew he wouldn't win.
Take a look at Jeff Bagwell's rookie cards and compare him to the Bagwell that we've seen the last few years. Your eyes are NOT lying to you.
Bonds, Bagwell, McGwire, Giambi, Sosa and Luis Gonzalez started their careers with the physique of stick figures. If you're going to bash and condemn Bonds for ballooning up like the Incredible Hulk, then EVERYONE who used 'riods should get the same treatment, that's all I'm saying.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Don't get me wrong, there's certainly a huge amount of circumstantial evidence against many of the players mentioned in the article, but unfortunately, there's no smoking syringe. How would the author get the inside scoop from so many different baseball players on the topic of steroids? I don't think he could.
Perhaps, if the title of the article was "The Curious Case of Jeff Bagwell" we'd all see that it was intended to be humorous.
<< <i>If you're going to bash and condemn Bonds for ballooning up like the Incredible Hulk, then EVERYONE who used 'riods should get the same treatment, that's all I'm saying. >>
I neither bashed nor condemned Bonds for anything.
He broke Babe's HR record? RECORDS WILL ALWAYS BE BROKEN
Bonds lied to a Grand Jury? BIG DEAL
He cheated on his wife? THAT'S HIS/HER BUSINESS
Bonds treats his fellow human beings with utter contempt? THIS IS WHERE I DRAW MY LINE.
What I just cannot understand, is how the great unwashed masses shower this guy with such adulation, when he holds those very same people in utter contempt. Similarly, I cannot understand how people worship Russell Crowe, Barbra Streisand, Madonna, etc...who also have horrible reputations of treating their fans poorly.
Yes, you can certainly herald their accomplishments. But to administer such grossly overbearing amounts of love and praise and honor...it baffles me.
I have never quite understood any form of hero worship, I guess.
Especially of flawed heroes.
Nick
Most recently he was busted on ESPN for lying about not being able to discuss his Grand Jury testimony...he says he is "..bound by law". LOL ESPN called him on this by stating that there is NO SUCH LAW prohibiting him from talking, that in fact any person who has testified to the Grand Jury can indeed speak about their own testimony at any time.
Barroid Bonds is a cancer to the game of baseball. The sooner he is gone, the sooner we can all get back to enjoying our national pastime.
EDIT: And for the record...Yes, I collect a cheater. And I am proud of it!!
EB31
That is a very interesting article....I did not treat it as satire.
Dav
He's an outright A*%&$@E!!! He looks down on just about everyone..like he's some sort of God...big deal...he can hit a baseball...
I have met or been in his presence a couple of times...and honestly, if THAT is what fame and power do for you...I'd rather eat out of a dumpster and be dirt poor..atleast I'll still have honor and integrity!!
Steriods....cummon, you can't blame solely Bonds for this issue. There are hundreds of others that are just as guilty...and for all you throwing out the cheater comments...and the he never would have done what he has without them... don't look too deep into your favorite teams past then either!! Man, football teams in the early and late 80's..... all the Raiders players who came forward (sorry not to single out the Raiders....but Alzado...Long in 1984 275 lbs...what's he now 230...cummon)...
Not to mention other entertainment areas like the WWF....you think Hulk Hogan was natural?? What about the old British Bull Dogs...
I agree that there has to be a certain amount of raw talent to be at that level where you can be considered for the Pros in ANY sport...Bonds has that natural eye and hitting ability...as did McGwire...and Sosa..it's the extra plus factor that adds to the mystery. No doubt even natural Bonds was 500+ HRs easily...that in and of itself is an amazing feat.
But the human body can only go so far!! You can only lift so many weights and take so many suppliments and unless that is all you are doing 6-8 hours a day....you body will lose shape and tone. Let alone muscle. Playing 100+ games a year and traveling 3/4 of the time....eating on the fly..bad hotels.....no sleep....it's hard enough to maintain...let alone build up muscle.
Look at the rookie cards of these players....Bonds 185 lbs.....McGwire 220...Palmiero 180...look at the weights versus builds now!! These guys all got HUGE entering their 40's....
Funny....most of my friends at close to 40, they still all work out..play basketball or hockey once or twice a week....some go to the gym..others run...there isn't one of us that doesn't have a belly..or a few extra pounds to lose. We all put on 30-50 lbs since 1987 too....but not solid muscle!!
Heck, I used to body build..played college sports...I lifted and measured my diet daily and was stacked... 5'6" ...215 lbs....I was rock solid with 4% body fat and benched 400+ lbs. I was never getting any bigger. But I saw the guys who took the juice...put on the 20-40 lbs extra muscle and wham...they were leaps and bounds ahead of me. Arnold was huge back then....he juiced...but then it wasn't illegal....he was idolized...still is to this day.....was that cheating....by what standards..todays or from yester year? How many kids wanted to be Mr. Universe back in the day?? How natural were they??? Not at all......
So years later, on the the eve of MY 40th birthday...here I sit..I'm still only 5'6"....up around 230 and big..but NOT stacked...probably 15-18% body fat..although I still do work out and keep up cardio routinely. No one would mess with me for sure. And I think...I'm trying to get back to even close to what I was...but I'll take the long life...the health..and my conscience AND my beer belly and be happy.
Happy that I'm just me...and not Bonds...
So guys stop with the cheater stuff...stop with the bashing...stop with the looking under every rock for others....you might not like what you find!!
Be happy it's not you...be happy to be you...go play with your kids...your pets...your sports cards...your significant other...call someone just to say hi and that you miss them...and spend time and effort where it counts. Let them know that they are heroes to you!!
Not foolish sports stars or celebrities...Enough is Enough...
Can't we just all get along??? lol
Just my 2 cents